JPSeraph

Wow, I can't believe this argument is still alive.

The Bad Baron has better articulated (through actual experience) what I was trying to point out about Erving: he was definitely a better rebounder (quicker off the floor from what I've heard) than McGrady; just going by his NBA numbers, Ervings RBR is better: 10+ until he was 33. By contrast, McGrady has been up and down from 8.5 to 11.4 and the advantage is even more in Erving's favor when you factor in his youthful ABA days.

As for Erving's defense, everything I've heard about Dr. J indicates that he was indeed a top defender in his youthful ABA days. Perhaps what is confusing the issue is that Erving began experiencing chronic knee problems (some form of tendinitis I assume) throughout his career which may have coincided with his transition from the ABA to the NBA. (not an argument for taking ABA RBR figures at face value)

Most of what we, the younger generation that is, have seen of Dr J is of a 30 something player who could occasionally pull off impressive moves, but doesn't really compare with all the young studs going around the league these days. As much as we would like to claim objectivity, watching an older defenseless Erving definitely affects one's impression of Erving overall. It's like when some teenager on the board talks about how MJ wasn't such a great athlete and is speaking only of the little they saw from 96 onwards.

As much as you (Minstrel, that is) may find anecdotal or second hand evidence abhorrent, I believe for the reasons above, we must use it. I, for one, doubt that every member of an older generation is hellbent on proving that their guys had to be the best. If that was true, then the same would be true of us. So, it's a matter of evaluating the source. While Baron was giving more credence to the ABA than many younger fans (myself included) find plausible, he didn't strike me as an Erving fanatic or a poor observer of the game, and much of what he said actually coincides with what I have heard from other sources I would consider credible.

It's not perfect, but if one is willing to consider PER estimates from basketball-reference, then why not strong anecdotal or second hand evidence?

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