Bon]{eRz

Lets use a simple example to illustrate my point of why martin has been the better player even if you believe that his individual stats (which have been better than redd's) have been inflated by team injuries. Compare two players, player x and player y. Lets put x and y on two teams which are otherwise identical, and in the same conferences facing opposing teams of the same quality. If player x's team wins 12 more games than player y's team, you can argue a strong case that player x > y. And 12 wins difference over the course of a season (as was the difference for kings and bucks) isn't a small difference. Thats not accounting for the fact that we both agree redd actually had more talent on his team than martin did, and that he also played in the easier conference at a time where we may have seen the greatest ever disparatity between the two conferences.

In fact take the analysis a step further and adjust kings and bucks records to account for games when martin and redd weren't in the line ups, and we see that kings had a worse winning percentage without martin in the line up, while bucks actually won a higher percentage of their games without redd. Martin won over 49% of the games which he played in, equivalent to a fraction under 41 wins over the course of a full season, while Redd won only 29% of his games or a fraction over 23 games out of an 82 game season. So the difference between these two players contributions to the win columns this season has actually been closer to 17-18 wins (not taking into account that martin had worse team mates, and played in a tougher conference). When I say Martin's more of a winner than Redd, that's a relative statement not an absolute one. If you only want to call players who have won championships, or make the playoffs winners than go ahead you seem to like using your own definitions for words. (btw the most wins Redd has ever led a team to has been 41, 5 years ago. Which other superstars can claim that?)

Then you also take into account that Redd's declined somewhat this year, and led a team expected to be competitive and in the playoffs to a 28 win record? In the freakin East where 37 wins = playoffs lol Martin's team would have been in the playoffs in the east. And this isn't a situation like KG's in minny where he didn't have ANYONE else on the team who could contribute, Redd's actually surrounded by talented players and still hasn't been able to get the job done. While Martin star is on the up, he's younger and improved markedly each of his seasons, and is already playing at a higher level than Redd... this comparison seems like a no brainer looking at the facts. If you said you love Redd the same way you say you love Miles and you're not basing this on anything rational i can at least understand that, but otherwise can't see how you can continue to logically argue that redd's a better player than martin at this point in their careers.

Maggette/Iguadala isn't spot on because Iguadala's individual stats > Maggette's, and he also led his team to more wins. Its nothing like a redd/martin comparison