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even if you believe that his individual stats (which have been better than redd's)
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When you say "which have been better" you make it sound like hes been better than redd for a while. This year was the first year that he even scored more points than redd, and were talking fractions here.
I do not agree with your illustration, neither of them. Some parts you can use, but you cannot use it in the is the team is better with/without a guy, because theres always cases of arenas, kobe, etc. where sometimes when the team actually does better when they are injured. That doesnt mean they are better/worse players, it just means the team steps it up at times with them out.
Redd's averaging going down by 2 points, at his age, we can hardly say yet hes on "the decline." Martin jumped up like crazy the year after his rookie year, and this year scored 2. something more points a game, but in only 60 games. I hardly call that " improved markedly each of his seasons". Nor is he playing at a higher level than redd.
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If you only want to call players who have won championships, or make the playoffs winners than go ahead you seem to like using your own definitions for words.
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And you seem to like putting words in my mouth. All i did was question youre calling of martin a "winner" when he has none of the usual requirements for what most use that word for, either being a guy who hits a lot of game winning shots, or being always on teams that make the playoffs, go far, etc...
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but otherwise can't see how you can continue to logically argue that redd's a better player than martin at this point in their careers.
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yes, the logic is quite simple, you seem to want to make it difficult. Martin has not proven enough yet to be on the same level of redd, plain and simple. He barely edged him in scoring this year, and this was statistically his best year of his whopping 3 year career. Am i saying its impossible for martin to become a star? No, he still has potential, even tmac didnt become a star right away. But martin is not considered elite at anything he does, although he for sure is a well rounded player and one of the more bright up and coming young guards in the league.
If we were comparing martin to someone like mobley or something, its a whole different story, even at mobleys peak. But were talking about michael redd here, widely considered by basketball analysts (in media, on tv, etc.) to be one of the best shooters around, a guy who has made a number of game winning shots for his team, a guy who has been playing on a high level, for 5 years now.
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Maggette/Iguadala isn't spot on because Iguadala's individual stats > Maggette's, and he also led his team to more wins. Its nothing like a redd/martin comparison
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iguadala at 20 5 and 5 in 40 minutes a game, not sure that its better than 22 6 and 3, in 36 minutes a agme. Id say its the opposite. maggette was on the worse team, just like martin was, and had superior stats as to who we are comparing them. But at the same time, i maintain that had iggy been in maggettes shoes, he would have done even more than maggette, being, IMO a superior player. Same with redd and martin, i maintain redd in martin's shoes would have done slightly better even than martin, being the superior player.