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Originally Posted by Boob-No-More
If anything is seriously flawed, it's your reading comprehension.
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Well, to start with, never did I say the Raptors would have the best frontcourt in the league. My point, which you clearly understood, was that you don't need a top player at all 3 positions to be great. Has Tim Duncan been paired with elite centers and power forwards? Far from it but the system and the complementary players have made the Spurs frontcourt one of the best for years.
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Nowhere did I say all three of your frontcourt players had to be top 5. I was merely pointing out that when your starting small forward may not even be in the top 30 at his position, it pretty much excludes you from claiming you have the best frontcourt in the league.
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Again, nowhere have I claimed we will be the best. However, nothing can refute me in claiming the Raptors COULD best the best. No one really knows just how well Moon will play as a sophomore (in a contract year) or how well CB4 and JO will play together. I expect great defense and offense, regardless of whether Moon makes major strides in his offensive game.
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Well, if they actually play 48 MPG, Bosh and O'Neal might average 40 PPG between them. But, even if they did, it wouldn't make them the top 4/5 combo in the league - in either scoring or rebounding. In fact, they only averaged 15.4 RPG between them last season. That's actually way below average for a starting 4/5 combo.
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Using JO's stats from last season is preposterous. The guy was playing on one leg, by his own admittance. Either you believe he's back to full strength or you don't; if you think his rehab won't pay off, that's fair enough but if we're assuming a healthy JO we're at 20 and 10. Bosh should stay around 22 and 9.
42 points and 19 rebounds. Who tops that? Sure this is all hypothetical but this is well within the realm of possibility.
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You do if you want people to take seriously your claim that you have the best front court in the entire league.
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Again, never claimed that.
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They are nowhere close to being one of the top scoring, or top rebounding front courts in the league. Based on last season's numbers, there were at least 8 starting front courts that averaged both more PPG and more RPG than your trio. Several more averged either more points, or more rebounds. And that doesn't even take into account teams like Portland and Philadelphia that have new players (Oden and Brand) that are coming off of injuries. It also doesn't include the NBA Champion Boston Celtics who played at a much slower pace (hence, less scoring and less rebounding, but a whole lot more winning) than the Raptors.
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Again, numbers from last season. Moon and JO will both significantly increase their numbers from last season. You don't think so? Moon is already pretty much tops in rebounding and block rates at his position. His jumper is going to be stronger and the JO/Bosh duo should give him even more easy looks/dunks. And don't forget that the Raps frontline are complemented by elite perimeter shooting and a system that promotes frontcourt production.
So you're saying that despite these ridiculous numbers you're using, there were only around 8 with better numbers? And you still think we won't be one of the stronger frontcourts going?
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Here's the numbers from last season for the Raps and the eight teams that had front courts that averaged both more PPG AND more RPG (Note: in all cases, these are LAST season's numbers for THIS season's rosters - i.e Jermaine O'Neal's 2007-08 stats added to Chris Bosch's and Jamario Moon's, Ron Artest's 2007-2008 numbers added to Yao Ming's and Luis Scola's, etc.):
Raptors:
44.4 PPG
21.6 RPG
Magic:
58.4 PPG
25.3 PPG
Rockets:
52.8 PPG
23.0 RPG
Wizards:
52.3 PPG
24.1 RPG
Suns:
51.3 PPG
24.7 RPG
Cavs:
50.8 PPG
25.5 RPG
Hornets:
48.8 PPG
24.9 RPG
Jazz:
46.6 PPG
22.8 RPG
Lakers:
46.1 PPG
28.6 RPG
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Again, using those numbers as an argument is no argument at all.
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IF Jermaine O'Neal can return to his pre-injury form AND the 28-year old Jamario Moon can show significant improvement, you MIGHT have one of the top 6 or so staring front courts in the league - assuming nobody else gets better (the Blazers and 76ers definitely will, as will Atlanta, and probably Orlando as Dwight Howard continues to improve) and one or two teams decline. But there is absolutely no way your front court will be one of the top 4 in the league. Absoltely NO way.
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So there a pretty good chance that the Raps will be in the top 6 but ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that they'll be in the top 4. Just look at that statement. There are no absolutes in the NBA. There's a very real possibility the Raps will have a top 3 frontcourt. There's a very real possibility there will be very little difference among the top 6. It's a very tough league and injuries are going to play a major factor, as always.
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If, on the other hand, Jermaine isn't back to his pre-injury form and Moon doesn't show significant improvement, your front court won't be in the top 10, possibly not even top 15. If Jermaine isn't healthy and misses a significant number of games, you could be lottery bound - because as this thread started out discussing, the East is going to be tougher this season.
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Every team has these same question marks. Elton Brand might never be the same. Yao's bones might not hold up. Will Bynun make improvements after such a major injury? Will Shaq's decline accelerate?
So all this begs the question. Which starting frontcourts are unequivocally better than Moon, Bosh, and JO?
LA, Houston, Phoenix, Detroit, Portland, Orlando and Boston might be better and they might not. Are the Raps in the same ball park? I argue yes. It's a long season. Me personally, I think frontcourt power revolves around big men (and their collective defense) and the Raps front court features a top big man combo. Oh, and I love Jamario - he's a high impact roleplayer. Call me crazy. I think it works. We'll have to wait and see how it all unfolds.