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Conference Expansion: Explosion Happening!

1M views 9K replies 200 participants last post by  mainejeff 
#1 · (Edited)
There has been plenty of rumor and articles during the past couple of weeks that suggest possible expansion of various BCS leagues......and now comes this from the Big East:

Marinatto: Time to think outside the box

Their commish talks about possible expansion to 20 teams!!! It has also been suggested that the Big Ten may go to 16 teams and the Pac-10 is on the verge of adding Colorado and Utah. Looks like it will be an all out war between the BCS leagues......and then the fallout hits the rest of us. I think that we are going to see some BIG changes!
 
#209 ·
There's no way Notre Dame is going to split the pie that many ways. Does that football conference get 12x what NBC pays ND? I don't think so. None of those teams bring anything to the table except geography, but if I'm a college football fan in NYC, I'd rather watch Alabama-LSU or Florida-South Carolina than Rutgers-UConn.
 
#220 ·
MJ, want to take a crack at the 2014 hockey conferences?

I see Hockey East and the ECAC staying unchanged.

Add Big Ten Hockey: (Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Penn State).
Add "Hockey West": (North Dakota, Denver, Colorado College, Notre Dame, Miami, UM-Duluth, St. Cloud, Northern Michigan, Nebraska-Omaha, Alaska)
Add "West Coast Athletic": (Bemidji, Michigan Tech, Minnesota State, Anchorage, Bowling Green, Ferris, Lake State, UAH)
 
#221 ·
Hockey East: Add Syracuse and subtract Merrimack and Lowell.

ECAC: Same

Big Ten: Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Notre Dame, and Nebraska-Omaha.

WCHA: Miami, Northern Michigan, Michigan Tech, St. Cloud, Minnesota State, Minnesota-Duluth, North Dakota, Denver, Colorado College, Anchorage.

CCHA: Lake Superior, Bowling Green, Ferris State, Western Michigan, Fairbanks, UAH, Air Force (whatever happens here.......the CCHA is screwed).
 
#222 ·
You'll likely see Indiana and Illinois add ice hockey in the next 3-5 years. Indiana is re-doing Assembly Hall and there's talk that they're going to make the new floor of the building have ice making capabilities.

Don't think that Nebraska wouldn't add hockey to take some lustre away from Nebraska-Omaha.

As much as I want Merrimack and Lowell out of HEA, I think the Mack will go before Lowell. The state legislators will likely step in and keep Lowell in HEA. They're also a bit more competitive than the Mack as well.

I'd throw UConn in HEA before Syracuse. Cuse actually fite the geographic footprint of the ECAC better than HEA.

One of our posters on DiehardDogs is tied in with USA Hockey pretty well, and he's hearing that Colorado and some of the Pac-10 schools may start hockey if a Pac-10 network comes to fruition. Apparently they all play real good club hockey and I can't imagine recruiting to Arizona or Arizona State would be a bad thing.

A boost to the CCHA may come from Simon Fraser and UBC, no - if they join the NCAA. Throw them in with the two Alaska schools.
 
#223 ·
You'll likely see Indiana and Illinois add ice hockey in the next 3-5 years. Indiana is re-doing Assembly Hall and there's talk that they're going to make the new floor of the building have ice making capabilities.

Don't think that Nebraska wouldn't add hockey to take some lustre away from Nebraska-Omaha.

As much as I want Merrimack and Lowell out of HEA, I think the Mack will go before Lowell. The state legislators will likely step in and keep Lowell in HEA. They're also a bit more competitive than the Mack as well.

I'd throw UConn in HEA before Syracuse. Cuse actually fite the geographic footprint of the ECAC better than HEA.

One of our posters on DiehardDogs is tied in with USA Hockey pretty well, and he's hearing that Colorado and some of the Pac-10 schools may start hockey if a Pac-10 network comes to fruition. Apparently they all play real good club hockey and I can't imagine recruiting to Arizona or Arizona State would be a bad thing.

A boost to the CCHA may come from Simon Fraser and UBC, no - if they join the NCAA. Throw them in with the two Alaska schools.
I really can't agree with that. Yes, they have the name recognition, but if he's saying their club teams are really good, I'd seriously question that.

Just a shot in the dark, if UMBC ever did promote their club team, which has been discussed but rejected due money reasons, how well would it be received in Hockey East?
 
#224 ·
The better Pac-10 schools play in front of 2,500 fans or more a game. That's pretty good for club hockey. Remember, with the Pac-10 network, they'll need programming, and I'm sure they'll have a niche out there and would have ZERO problem scheduling OOC games.

Penn State is going from club to D-I (Granted they got a $90 million check).

As for UMBC, they'd kind of be an island among themselves in HEA geographically, and there's zero guarantee they'd even get in to HEA. That's an independent conference, and you've got a bunch of different factions in place. There's no guarantee that BU, Maine, UNH and UVM would be for y'all just because you're a member of the AE.

I'm not sure if UConn ever decided to step up their game from a hockey perspective they wouldn't be the next HEA team if Mack got the boot.

UMBC would be better served if Delaware and Navy and other mid atlantic schools stepped up their programs.
 
#226 ·
NUHF, you're right about the draw for PAC-10 teams. However, I'm referring to the on-ice quality for those club teams compared to other club teams. Seven PAC-10 teams, as well as incoming Utah and Colorado, are in the same club Division as UMBC. Of those schools, only Colorado made it to the national tournament, and they, as well as UMBC made it to the Final Four.

When NCAA teams get started, especially hockey, they take already existing clubs and simply promote them. This is what's going to happen with Penn State. The new PAC10 (PAC12?) can draw as many as they want, but until Paul Kelley, College Hockey Inc. and the NCAA get more respect in the hockey world (they weren't even invited to the World Hockey Summit), the upstart league probably will be on the same totem pole as the CHA. It will be a while before the growing player-base in that region forgoes the WHL. It's unfortunate, but it's true.

As for UMBC hockey, there was one reason, and one reason only why hot dog got to watch the Frozen Four in Washington; the NCAA was trying to convince Navy to promote their team. That's why they were named host of the tournament to begin with. The reason why a promotion won't happen soon? UMBC skated circles around Navy earlier that February, convincing Navy they weren't ready. It's very, very fair to say that UMBC's hockey club is the best club team in the region; they've beaten teams in higher levels. Are they going to go varsity anytime soon? No, because it costs too much.

But if they did, would geography be the only reason to not be invited? Or would you say there are other factors?
 
#229 · (Edited)
But if they did, would geography be the only reason to not be invited? Or would you say there are other factors?
The factors are geography and cost - which in my mind are one in the same.

Take a school like NU or BU, the only overnight trips they have to make in HEA are to UVM and Maine - and maybe UMass, but even then I'm not sure.

If you play UVM and Maine and UMass twice on the road in the same year (which I think wouldn't happen because of the way HEA tries to do the scheduling), you'd spend a max of 6 nights on the road - for all of your league games. Most years you get 2 of the 3, so it's like 4 nights.

Bringing a hockey team to UMBC for a Friday/Saturday night weekend series is about $10-15K when you factor in plane, bus, hotels, meals.

HEA is the ultimate in a bus league, and the fans love it. The green line rivalries are among the best in the sport. It's not uncommon to see 500-1,000 fans from one green line school at the other for a game during the school year.

If the Pac-10 wants to step up their games, they will, regardless of what their play is like now.
 
#238 ·
Here we go again.......TCU officially leaves the Mountain West and joins the Big East for 2012-2013:

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5862368

This is getting pretty ridiculous......not only from a geographical standpoint, but also the timing of these announcements. Pretty crappy thing for TCU and the Big East to do before the bowls are completed.

It's only a matter of time before all hell brakes loose with the Big Ten, PAC-10, SEC and ACC.
 
#240 ·
Well.....it's time to draw up some new scenarios:

I'm going to divide the Big East into 2 separate groups......football and hoops:

Big East - Football (10 - Villanova declining scenario)

UConn
Syracuse
Rutgers (later leaves for the Big Ten)
Pitt
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
South Florida
TCU
*Central Florida


Big East - Hoops (9)

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Georgetown
*Xavier
*Dayton

Marquette
DePaul


Big Ten (16)

Will add:

*Rutgers
*Notre Dame
*Maryland
*Missouri


SEC (16)

Will add:

*Clemson
*Miami
*Florida State
*Texas A&M


PAC-10 (16)

Will add:

*Texas
*Texas Tech
*Oklahoma
*Oklahoma State


To be continued........
 
#242 ·
Personally, I would have waited out the remainder of the BCS TV contract and waited for the BCS to strip the Big East of its BCS auto bid. Either that, or convince them to get rid of that "BCS National Championship Game," bring the Cotton Bowl into the old rotation they had, and give the MWC an auto bid.
 
#249 ·
Maine football is toast. There is no way that they can justify one bus trip to UNH, then no one north of Delaware. The NEC is in a position now where they don't have to take Maine, and if I'm them I don't. So, thank you, BU, UVM, Hartford and UNH for all doing your part to torpedo America East football at some point. That started Maine on the slow path to cutting the sport.

Maybe now we will get a soccer program back?
 
#256 ·
Albany, CCSU, Monmouth, and Robert Morris right now fund 34 scholarships (the current NEC max) and will be at planned NEC limit of 40 by 2013.

The other smaller schools (SFPA, Wagner, Bryant, SHU, etc) are currently funding about 22+ each and will likely have a problem getting to 40 in 2013, so the odds of the NEC increasing the limit to 63 are slim right now. URI already agreed to come aboard with the 40 scholarship limit.

Right now the choices for UNH/Maine are simple:
1) Stay in the CAA without URI & UMass, and continue to fund 63 scholarships.
2) Join the NEC with URI, Albany, CCSU, etc. and reduce funding to 40 scholarships.
3) Join the PL with Holy Cross, Lehigh, etc. fund 63 grants-in-aid and recruit with an Academic Index.

The NEC worked very hard to get the AQ and they will not approve increased schollys just to appease or be attractive to affilitae members like UNH, Maine, SBU, or Fordham.

I do think the NEC will CONSIDER rasing the scholarship limit in the near future for 2 other reasons - 1) to be more competatitive nationally in the playoffs and 2) to be a "bowl counter" and eligible to schedule FBS $$$ games.
 
#263 ·
Texas A&M to the SEC as member #13 is all but a done deal and now comes this........

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...s-texas-longhorns-being-discussed-source-says

My update to where this is all going:

PAC-12 adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

SEC adds Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, West Virginia and Florida State.

The Big Ten adds Missouri, Pitt, Syracuse and Rutgers.

The ACC (which would be at 10 members with the loss of VTech and FSU) adds UConn, Temple, Louisville, Kansas, Kansas State and USF.

That's it for now...........
 
#264 ·
That's it for now?? C'mon! You were just getting to the good stuff. Based on the above, Big East football gets decimated. Doesn't that get start the dominos falling toward the mid- and low major conferences like the AE?

Also, I have to imagine TCU leaves the Big East immediately and tries to find yet another home.
 
#267 ·
I hope that means that America East can dissolve and the best teams from this league join another league, those that play football to join the CAA . Those that don't should join A10
 
#269 ·
It will work it's way down to everybody...the Big East is bound to lose a few schools and they will pluck from the A-10 and CAA maybe...from there, those leagues will in turn pluck from somebody else, and you can bet Boston University is poised to be plucked almost immediately.

Eventually, there will be a massive shift that will affect the majority of conferences.
 
#272 ·
If the Big XII totally implodes, it may not trickle down just yet.

Big XII
Texas A&M ---> SEC
Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, OK State --> Pac 16
Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri ---> Big East
Iowa State and Baylor ---> C-USA/MWC

IMO, it depends on what the SEC does for their 14th team. Will it come from the ACC, Big East, or somewhere else.

The BigTen is likely holding out for Notre Dame as #13 and only then will they make their choice for #14 from the Big East (Cuse/WVU/Pitt/Rutgers) or ACC (VT/UMD).

IMO, the Big East isn't splitting up just yet. They may have 12 football teams and 20 basketball teams soon. makes for interesting scheuling to say the least, but too much value to split up yet.
 
#273 ·
There is a lot of talk about Missouri becoming SEC team #14....... and then VTech and FSU to round it out to 16.

That would leave the ACC with 10 and they most likely would go after a couple of Big East programs to get back to 12 (UConn and Syracuse or Louisville are the best bets).

Once the Big Ten goes to 16 in 2016 (Notre Dame, Rutgers, Pitt, Maryland) then the ACC will add 5 more programs from the Big East (Louisville/Syracuse, West Virginia, Temple, UMass, ODU USF, Central Florida, Kansas and K-State will all be candidates).
 
#274 ·
two question: If the (future) Big four eventually break away from the NCAA. Does this signify the end of College athletics?

What would it mean for the rest of us left behind? Pretty much it impedes our schools from ever reaching a higher level... it is scary to look at the future. This is what College Football and television deals has done to the NCAA.

Our schools will never have a chance to reach the level of the big four. Sucks to see this happening.
 
#276 · (Edited)
It sucks for the whole northeast part of the country for that matter. We've got the best hoops conference in the country and several other very good leagues, all while not really pursuing "big time" college football for the most part other than a few BE teams.

College basketball spans 5 months of the year and represents numerous opportunities for us to see great athletic competition. Conferences generally follow regional or even same city rivalries. And seemingly it all could be pissed away because red necks from Texas, Oklahoma and the southeast want superconferences for 6 lousy home games a year and a meaningless bowl in most cases.

I feel I'm a pretty unbiased observer of this because any "shakeup" arguably benefits BU, but it's not really what I want to happen in the long run. It's just plain bad for all of us.

One other point, but we've seen how football swallows up basketball by looking at conferences like the A-10. Sure, Temple, Xavier and Dayton have persevered and improved in recent years. And we've seen the likes of St. Mary's, Gonzaga and Butler have great success. But "basketball-only" schools seem to be at more and more of a disadvantage these days.

It's happened to the point where historically horrendous basketball schools (say Miami, FSU) are able to quickly surpass historically very good schools in the A-10 simply by throwing a little bit of football money at it. The lack of television visibility on CBS Sports is really hurting the A-10 from my perspective.
 
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