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Who should replace UMass - Boston U or Siena?

20K views 220 replies 48 participants last post by  jkdem85 
#1 ·
Which school would you choose to replace UMass when they leave for football in a year or two?

I like Siena but if you want to keep the northern New England market then Boston U would fit.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Go back to Virginia? No wait - Delaware? No wait - Pittsburgh? Where is LaSalle located again? When are you going to realize that Fordham even adds more to this conference than LaSalle does....
 
#11 ·
Boston U averaged 981 fans per game last season. I doubt they will be considered.

Siena I could see being an option along with Creighton, Bradley, and George Mason.

Those schools all have good fan support. Here is their average attendance for last season.

Creighton averaged 16,665
Bradley averaged 7,640
Siena averaged 6,509
George Mason averaged 5,161

Tournament history of those teams
Creighton - 17 appearances, reached the sweet sixteen in 1974, last appearance 2012.
Bradley - 8 appearances, lost in the championship game twice (1950 and 1954), last appearance 2006.
George Mason - 6 appearances, reached the final four in 2006, last appearance 2011
Siena - 6 appearances, has reached the second round three times, last appearance 2010.
 
#13 ·
Someone in a previous thread mentioned Belmont and Davidson. Davidson averages just under 4000 per game, and Belmont is way down there with about half of Davidson. I dunno, but I like the idea of getting more southern exposure. Davidson is in essentially Charlotte suburbs, correct? Belmont is in Nashville.
 
#20 ·
Davidson is 25 minutes or so from the Charlotte campus. It's a quaint little town on the lake. I don't know that they'd accept an invite though. They run shit in the SoCon and they have reasonable travel right now.

If the SoCon starts to fall apart things may change, but I doubt Davidson would be willing to take on the expense of traveling all over. Davidson holds academics in very high regards and I also doubt they'd be willing to ship their athletes all over the Northeast and Midwest.
 
#15 ·
UMass won't leave this conference at all. Even suggesting this like ExplorerSteve did is preposterous.

Why leave a great BB conference just to go to a slightly better, more profitable conference in football. If they are allowed then I'm sure they will stay a MAC affiliate for as long as they can.

That said, if some team is to leave in the future, I would replace them with Northeastern, and not BU, like you are suggesting.
 
#16 ·
these are all awful suggestions. BU, Siena, Belmont, Davidson?

The A10 is better than that. Way better.

IMO Creighton doesn't bring more to the table than the A10 brings to it. And in general, I'm opposed to conference sprawl, as I feel that outside a couple games, none of the fanbases will ever be able to form a rivalry or develop much interest in playing them. Keeping a tight, focused league where rivalries permeate the schedule and fan interest is high is paramount to publicity and media attention. What would Omaha bring to that equation? A lot of built-in fans is about it. I don't see anyone caring about playing them each year. Charlotte was much closer and had all these issues, even when they were good a few years ago.

The lessons of other conferences that expanded their footprints just to bring in teams for market purposes is fraught with warning. Look at the CAA. How did the Boston and Atlanta markets work out for that league?

The A10 is in a great position for the next few years as things shuffle and should be cautious in how it proceeds.
 
#45 ·
these are all awful suggestions. BU, Siena, Belmont, Davidson? The A10 is better than that. Way better. IMO Creighton doesn't bring more to the table than the A10 brings to it.
And in general, I'm opposed to conference sprawl… Keeping a tight, focused league where rivalries permeate the schedule and fan interest is high is paramount to publicity and media attention. What would Omaha bring to that equation?
I agree with a lot of that, but disagree overall for a very simple reason:
#1-
Creighton qualifies as "best available" and its not even close. Its Secretariat at the Belmont.
All available schools (No one in the Mountain/Pacific time zone, or with FBS football)
NCAA bids: 16 Creighton, 14 Murray St, 12 Holy Cross, 10 So. Illinois, Chattanooga, Davidson.
NCAA wins: 11 Bradley, 10 Creighton, 8 Davidson

Murray State is in the middle of no where. Holy Cross has won the (abysmal) Patriot a few times, but they haven't won an NCAA game since 1953.

#2 - What "mid-majors" are left? With the WCC adding BYU and all the western changes*; CAA, CUSA, MWC and Horizon losing their an "at-large" hopeful (SDSU will be Big West auto instead of a MWC at-large), there are (a) more NCAA bids available going forward and (b) NO MID-MAJORS LEFT. Except the MVC.

Plucking Creighton could make the MVC a one-bid league… like almost everyone else. You could realistically see a situation where the only multi-bid leagues were the BCS Six, A-10, WCC and either MWC or CUSA.

*The MWC is an interesting case. They didn't miss a beat losing BYU and add Nevada, Fresno State and Utah State, some pretty good programs. But there are SO FEW teams in the west that they all play each other anyway, and it drives their SOS's closer to .500. It will be worse going forward because TCU and La Tech (who played vastly different OOC schedules) headed east and Denver (vastly different conf. schedule) headed west. Throw in that SDSU's BWC slate will make them a far less attractive SOS/OppSOS team, and the MWC's going to 16 or 18 game schedules, and the MWC could lose an at-large from "schedule math."
The consolidation of the WAC/MWC into one conference doesn't make them stronger. It makes them weaker. Because there's no one outside of each other to beat that they weren't beating already. Same as the 16-team WAC.

I only see two issues holding up Creighton:
1. Geography (but not that challenging considering Creighton is loaded)
2. Walking away from a far better conference in terms of facilities and basketball support in order to play in a half dozen HS gyms in the A10.
These moves are about two things: TV and NCAA Access (which both translate to "money.") If joining the A-10 means more TV games, more guaranteed marquee games and more NCAA tournament access, Creighton won't care what kind of gym/arena they play in. Playing at the RC, Gola and Rose Hill en route to the NCAAs is better than playing in nice arenas in the regular season AND the NIT.
 
#17 · (Edited)
The A10 just added two successful, highly marketable basketball schools. If a single spot opens in the near future, the spot will be filled with another school of a high caliber, not Northeastern, Siena or Boston U.

George Mason is the most likely. Once Old Dominion leaves for CUSA, they'd probably crawl to the A10 (and just tried to do just that, depending on which report you believe).
 
#19 ·
The A10 just added two successful, highly marketable basketball schools. If a single spot opens in the near future, the spot will be filled with another school of a high caliber, not Northeastern, Siena or Boston U.
If we're going for high quality then we might as well dispose of Dayton. Northeastern would be a much better member than Dayton has been for the conference, due to its academic status and tournament success.
 
#18 ·
if umass would leave, i wouldnt replace them unless it was with a far more successful overall program that has a decent television market as well. let the conference shrink before taking on a lame program like boston u.

creighton would seem to be a good replacement as it is a traditionally strong basketball program decent secondary sports and comes from a decent sized television market with omaha. it also continues to balance the conference geographically.
 
#21 ·
Media markets have no bearing. The A10 already has 9 teams in the top 25 media markets and all 14 in the top 65. That's a pretty good media market coverage. Our TV deal sucks.

It's about getting marketable basketball programs that can draw eyeballs to CBS Sports, NBC Sports and ESPN, and these schools have to be willing and able to invest at the level of Xavier, Dayton, Butler, VCU, SLU, St Joe. Most of the schools mentioned are not willing and/or able. We don't need more Fordhams and La Salles.
 
#30 ·
Creighton qualifies as "best available" and its not even close. Its Secretariat at the Belmont.

I only see two issues holding up Creighton:
1. Geography (but not that challenging considering Creighton is loaded)
2. Walking away from a far better conference in terms of facilities and basketball support in order to play in a half dozen HS gyms in the A10.

#1 can be overcome, but the bottom of the A10 is probably lower than the Missouri Valley. Especially in the facilities and fan support area.

Broken record, but the A10 takes a larger step forward just dropping Fordham and LaSalle than it does adding anybody else. No other Top-10 league in the country (BCS or non BCS) has such a disparate gap between those at the top and those at the bottom. The A10 would be the #4 league in the RPI if we dropped the dead weight that's done nothing other than suck oxygen over the last 15 years.

Bernie has shown to be a forward thinker and willing to make some ambitious calls. I think the next one has to include a performance commitment metric that every school must honor -- and if they dont spend the money, invest in facilities, and demonstrate a willingness to be competitive they need to swallow the bitter pill that they are competitively overmatched and need to find a better conference fit in fairness to their student athletes. Ups and downs aside, a couple schools in the league have basically never grabbed an oar to help row.
 
#31 ·
Broken record, but the A10 takes a larger step forward just dropping Fordham and LaSalle than it does adding anybody else. No other Top-10 league in the country (BCS or non BCS) has such a disparate gap between those at the top and those at the bottom. The A10 would be the #4 league in the RPI if we dropped the dead weight that's done nothing other than suck oxygen over the last 15 years.

Bernie has shown to be a forward thinker and willing to make some ambitious calls. I think the next one has to include a performance commitment metric that every school must honor -- and if they dont spend the money, invest in facilities, and demonstrate a willingness to be competitive they need to swallow the bitter pill that they are competitively overmatched and need to find a better conference fit in fairness to their student athletes. Ups and downs aside, a couple schools in the league have basically never grabbed an oar to help row.
in case you cant see me this second, you are getting a standing ovation.
 
#32 ·
I would love to add Creighton to the A-10. Bring on another fellow Jesuit university!

Thanks for the new signature, Knobby!
 
#33 ·
I see a lot about baseball, academics, university affliation and market recruiting for students (really???) but I only care about what Creighton would bring to the A10 in terms of being an exciting opponent for the existing schools in basketball - the A10's primary reason for existence. I just don't see the majority of the fan bases getting jacked up for a visit to or from the Jays. The A10 already has a school that fits a similar profile in St. Louis, and the biggest selling point for most of those games on the east coast is Rick Majerus. Even SLU hasn't been able to form rivalries due to the geography and inability of the casual A10 fan to invest much energy in caring about a school over a thousand miles away. It took SLU years in the A10 to get back to solid footing and now hopefully they will catch on better. But Creighton? Casual fans will have no idea where that school is even located. It's like an OOC game in conference play. I don't see it.
 
#35 ·
creighton has only finished out of the top 100 twice in the last ten years. they are without a doubt a quality program that would immediately be near the top of the standings year in and year out in most of the A-10 sports. a "casual" fan that doesnt know about creighton isnt even a casual fan. i would guess they arent even a sports fan.
 
#36 ·
You're a fan of SLU, you're aware of Creighton and the MVC. But for east coast fans, who care about their team first and foremost and know the other schools by hearing about them b/c they are close by, or easily identified by their names (Dayton, St. Louis) - not so much. Top 100 ranking - means nothing. How many top 25s? How many deep NCAA runs, even Sweet 16s in those years, where they would get publicity beyond a small notation?

Creighton gets zero mention ever on the east coast. Literally none. Expecting fans (not die-hards, but alumni who pay attention sporadically and go to a few times each year) from schools in Philly, Mass, NY, DC and Virginia to know anything about them is a stretch. Which translates to not caring about those games.

As an avid basketball fan, I'm aware of Creighton's success. Have I ever watched one of their games? Only if they made the MVC title game. Most people will have had no exposure to them on the east coast.

And saying that Creighton will go straight to the top (I'll take it to mean you meant top 4 or so) of the league is stretching it. The A10 is a tough league. SLU should be able to attest to that and the difficulty in transitioning a midwest-based program to the east.

At best, I see it as an even proposition in bringing stuff to the table, with more downside than up.
 
#39 ·
Creighton does not do anything half-ass. That's the kind of league member I want to be associated with in the A10. Creighton's own online "Web TV" was 5 years ahead of everyone else 4-5 years ago when Dayton played there and I watched online. The Jays soccer stadium is nicer than 6 of the A10s BASKETBALL FACILITIES. Money is not a hindrance to what Creighton does. If they fail, its not because they did not have the resources -- unlike say Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne, Bonas who are forced to do more with less in their athletic departments because of space issues, money, geography, etc.

Dayton's 4-game series with Creighton was an absolute firecracker. Every game was competitive and thrilling. The fans loved it for both sides.

If you think Creighton fans are gonna second-guess jumping into the wagon queen family truckster to support the Jays in NYC or wherever, you are mistaken. They are like UD fans only better than UD fans. And I mean the good part about UD fans, not the neurotic part.

Is Omaha a major market? I'm not certain Olean or Kingston is. But you make it work and making it work would be the easiest part of the entire process. Creighton just has to work out the math to make sure they have the travel capacity to get their teams to the A10 institutions without missing any more class time. I think its doable, but it might need to be a bit creative and the A10 might have to allow for some flexibility that all schools make room for.

You do not pass up on the #6 basketball fan base in the country. Ever. Especially not when they fit the academic and athletic profile of the conference 110% -- especially the schools closest to them (Sloo, UD, XU, Butler). If the Jays want in and the league/A10 say no, Bernie and the schools presidents arent as smart as I initially gave them credit for.

Personally I think it will be Creightons decision to make and they are not quite ready to make it. Im confident the A10 slides Creighton ahead of GMU on the wish list however. Plenty of better fits than Mason. Creighton is target numero uno. But we may need to shed a couple more teams before anything further happens.

Long term I think its a no brainer for Creighton, though I think there might be a short-term bullet to bite in money, travel, etc, until the A10 brand kicks in for them.
 
#40 ·
Neither BU nor Siena are A10-caliber. The fact is that Boston is not a major college sports market. It should be but it's not. BU should be a great program to add but Dennis Wolff somehow destroyed a program he had built. Siena is a decent program but geographically a mistake. If UMass loses then the A10's northern border should be PA (sorry SBU - I love SBU but the writing is on the wall - and it's not fair with LSU and FU dragging the conference down).
 
#44 · (Edited)
What people forget when talking about Creighton, is that it's a two way street. Creighton is certainly able and maybe willing to spend extra on travel, but are the east coast schools? I think at least 3/4 of the other programs have to vote for them, so 4 no votes and they don't get in. We have a good number of cheap ass programs who won't want to send their athletes well over 1,000 miles for road games and matches. The East Coast members sure as heck aren't going to be looking at drawing students from Nebraska.

Creighton would be a tremendous fit for Dayton, Xavier, Butler, SLU, and even VCU. Are they a fit for Rhody, GW, LaSalle and Fordham? Therein lies the issue. Will the money work for them? We have to see what the next TV deal with the "new" A-14 becomes before we can even begin to speculate on what Creighton could or would do for the television profile. They appeased the westerners with SLU and Butler. At some point added schools will bring fewer added TV dollars, this is basketball and not football after all, and then they won't be so willing.

I think most of us are in agreement that dumping LaSalle and Fordham would be a huge boost to the league, but come on. I have a better chance of spending a glorious week in Bora Bora with Kate Upton (I'm available, Kate, if you are reading this). It's just not going to happen. We have to play ball with them, and I don't see them being ok with further western expansion.

The only logical way A10 programs shack up with Creighton, IMO, is to not be in the A10 anymore. Of course, that's not an impossibility. Football realignment is far from over, and it will have further ramifications on the basketball landscape.

So if you're wondering about logical potential replacements should UMass leave, look east of the Mississippi. The options are pretty limited. George Mason stands above the rest. They are still the most likely next man up.
 
#50 ·
I really feel sorry for the La Salle fans who have to read all of this stuff, but it's literally all because of our friend Steve. His passion for LSU is great, but some of these posts are always going to lead to crucifying responses. As a Bona grad who had (has) steam coming out of his ears reading these types of posts during the post-scandal years, I could understand why Explorer fans would never even read this board. That's too bad because they seem to be turning the corner.
 
#55 ·
That is the thing, no one is taking their BS seriously. The funny thing is that the venom being spewed is by some of the fans of teams that the Explorers beat rather handily this past year including UMass, Richmond and Xavier.

La Salle has never been a bottom dwellar or doormat like Fordham and until recently Duquesne (as their own President admitted).

La Salle's average finish has been a disappointing average of 8th place since joining the conference. Some of the early struggles were expected. But La Salle never finished last in the conference nor did they ever have back to back 20 loss seasons as mentioned previously. The future is bright for the Explorers as they were a top 100 team last season and are expected to perform even better this year.
 
#53 ·
In a sense the A-10 has found the perfect storm to insure it is a player men's basketball going forward. First you've got the football schools in a dither over establishing a playoff system and whether or not members are going to switch conferences or if conferences are going to add members, and which ones. Second, more tv outlets want to add sporting events and are looking for programming. Third, the A-10 is a basketball only league with a good reputation, a presences in good tv markets, members with a solid academic standing. Now is an opportunity to strengthen the league both from a perception standpoint and the reality of offering an attractive package for broad cast rights. Butler and VCU are a great start. Creighton and probably Bradley would help further. If you're a college basketball fan it doesn't make any difference if you live in Maine or New Mexico you know about Creighton. Bradley was I believe ranked 58th in home attendance drawing almost three times as many people per game as the lowest three teams in the bottom of the A-10 did combined. Peoria gets you into the Chicago market, would be a good rival for St. Louis/Creighton and serves as a jumping off point to or from Creighton. i realize some of the east coast schools might be concerned about travel expenses. Maybe that forces their hand membership wise. To me if the A-10 has a shot at adding a Creighton, I would go for it.
 
#61 ·
I think that the thought of adding another team should be done with. If anything. We should be looking for teams that are leaving. I think in the future it would be nice to be a 12 team league with legitimate divisions.

Temple is replaced by Butler, Charlotte is replaced by VCU. Aside from obviously Fordham being an Obvious choice (its nothing against Fordham but your the doormat's doormat of our league most the time) Lasalle would be the obvious other choice because we already have St. Joes which is a much better program in that area. Lasalle does not bring really anything to the conference other then a decent season every couple of years. Never a conference contending team.

If we got rid of those teams. then we would be a sexy lookin 12 team conference legit depth from top to bottom.


Or we could just keep those two teams around cus hey.... someone has got to be that perennial bottom feeder.
 
#66 ·
I for one can not understand why this has gotten off to another pissing match again..

I understand ExplorerSteve is seen as "being that guy" and creates a lot of hatred on La Salle when it should directed to ExpSteve... He does not respresent what we think.. As a matter of fact, he is on our Ignore List that the posters on our board created a month ago.. If you want come to Scout.com, we have a message board there and see for yourself..

Another issue is when did UMASS start to have zealous trolls who start trouble... Between Knobby who started this crap and z8-minuteman ridiculous and outlandish claims when did this University fanbase get to be as weird as ExplorerSteve?

ExpSteve asked who would you pick up when UMASS leaves.. It seems that is going to happen, not if... So why flame up on him?

Obviously La Salle hasn't brought much to the table.. Heck we had a multiple time POY of the conference and didnt mustard a single NCAA Appearance.. Rape case aside it has been a bad ride...
I do not understand wanting to throw out a school with an RPI of 80 (or there abouts).. If that is how you want to run your business.. Well it is obvious you do not run a business.. A school on an uptrend returning most of their key players... But if you truly what to throw them out go for it.. Write to the Bernie... Do not hide behind an anoynmous screen name on a message board..

I understand ExpSteve is an embarrasment.. Trust us when I tell you if our flamer.. But do not lump the university in it.. It makes you sound like an id_ot and frankly discounts any future comment you make (Like ExpSteve)
 
#83 ·
If you are going to make claims about me on other boards then please identify yourself with a single handle. It makes impossible to know who you are otherwise. Please stop with personal attacks and make your points. I am no more of an embarrassment then anyone else who posts and I actually asked a legit question when UMass does leave with their football program.
 
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