Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming? - Page 87 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

ecasadoSBU · 11-28-2012, 07:34 PM

10k Gampel (15k+ XL Center @ Hartford) vs Rutger's 8k RAC
40k Rent vs 52k High Point Solutions Stadium
$30 Mil Basketball training Facility vs N/A
1 BCS game, 4 minor Bowl Apps vs 6 minor bowl apps
7 WBB national Champ vs N/A
3 MBB National Champ vs N/A
2 MSOC Nat' Champs vs N/A
non-AAU vs AAU

Why in hell would Rutgers be chosen by B1G if it was based on success? Easy, that is because its not based on success. The only criteria that beats Uconn would be the AAU and the slightly higher football attendance that a mediocre team like rutgers gets. Thats all. The Big10 wants to be difference and wants to have something other than athletic success to hold its conference together. It makes sense, having the AAU membership as a requirement makes the conference "immune" to defections because no other conference has that value.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 11-28-2012, 07:53 PM

Both Maryland and Rutgers have significantly larger endowments than UConn though. Approx $800mm and $700mm to only approx $350mm for UConn.

Most of the Big Ten schools have substantial endowments greater than $1bn

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 11-28-2012, 08:01 PM

The AAU really is a funny thing to me. Rutgers and SUNY Buffalo along with Harvard and Yale to form an "elite membership". That's like Wal-Mart trying to tell me I can buy luxury goods at its stores.

ecasadoSBU · 11-28-2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

Both Maryland and Rutgers have significantly larger endowments than UConn though. Approx $800mm and $700mm to only approx $350mm for UConn.

Most of the Big Ten schools have substantial endowments greater than $1bn

Good point. I didn't consider that variable. B1G schools have huuuge endowments!

ecasadoSBU · 11-28-2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

The AAU really is a funny thing to me. Rutgers and SUNY Buffalo along with Harvard and Yale to form an "elite membership". That's like Wal-Mart trying to tell me I can buy luxury goods at its stores.

In research conducted, yes those are elite research universities... so is Michigan, Illionis, Florida, Stanford, Stony Brook, Boston University

But in quality of education and prestige it doesn't necessary mean they are at par... and obviously they are not

Vermont, Albany, Uconn, and every other major state school in the region would dream being part of such a group even if outside of research it doesn't mean much

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 11-29-2012, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecasadoSBU

In research conducted, yes those are elite research universities... so is Michigan, Illionis, Florida, Stanford, Stony Brook, Boston University

But in quality of education and prestige it doesn't necessary mean they are at par... and obviously they are not

Vermont, Albany, Uconn, and every other major state school in the region would dream being part of such a group even if outside of research it doesn't mean much

Getting including in things that call itself elite is better than not I suppose, but there are many schools in that membership that are quite a ways off from "elite". That's all I'm saying.

Aceinthehole · 11-29-2012, 06:47 AM

Maryland and Rutgers were picked for 1 primary reason - cable subscribers!

The Big Ten Network has a nationwide deal with cable companies - if a Big Ten school is in your state you must put the BTN on the basic package. In non-Big Ten states it is on a premium package.

By having the BTN on the basic package the BTN collects a monthly fee from cable companies for each subscriber. Additionally, the more subscribers the BTN has means the network can charge higher fees to advertisers. This is all about $$$

Contiguous States, AAU membership, and a host of other things are factors, but the B1G is motivated by cable subscribers first.

New Jersey has 8.8 million residents
Maryland has 5.8 million residents
Connecticut has just 3.6 million residents

Now that the B1G has Maryland, you could see some territories in the ACC get a much closer look for future expansion to 16 - VA (Va Tech), NY ('Cuse), NC (NC State), FL (FSU)

umainealum · 11-29-2012, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceinthehole

Sure, that's a good back-up plan. But the fact is the large public universities with National hoops prorgrams - UConn, Temple, Cincy, and Memphis - are still a whole better basketball schools to have than smaller privates Butler, Dayton, and Xavier. 'Nova, G-town, PC, etc. want to stay in a league with the those basketball schools because it is in their own best interest to do so. It keeps the Big Eats a "major" player in hoops.

Of course those three A-10 programs would jump at the chance to join the BE hoops programs, but they need the offer first. The BE hoops schools likely hold on to the bitter end, or until they lose 2 of the 4 "major hoop" programs. The Catholics will allow the BE to add as many FB-only schools as needed to keep UConn, et al on board with the Big East.

To just follow-up on our conversation...

I spoke to a good friend of mine that works at DePaul in athletics...turns out that there is a growing angst & concern about what remains of the Big East. They are pretty much joined at the hip with Marquette and he indicated there had been some conversations by the higher ups amongst the 2 but he had no idea what was involved. He did add that there is some concern about "getting left behind" and ending up in something like the Missouri Valley...not that that is a bad league, but it's a far cry from what they were/are used to.

The other interesting thing he mentioned was the growing negative public perception of the Big East. He indicated that there is a lot of concern about that and how it's going to affect ticket sales, ad revenue, marketing, etc. Let's face it, it's a lot harder to sell home hoops games vs SMU, Houston, Tulane and Central Florida than it is vs Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame and Louisville.

Just food for thought...

Aceinthehole · 11-29-2012, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umainealum

To just follow-up on our conversation...

I spoke to a good friend of mine that works at DePaul in athletics...turns out that there is a growing angst & concern about what remains of the Big East. They are pretty much joined at the hip with Marquette and he indicated there had been some conversations by the higher ups amongst the 2 but he had no idea what was involved. He did add that there is some concern about "getting left behind" and ending up in something like the Missouri Valley...not that that is a bad league, but it's a far cry from what they were/are used to.

The other interesting thing he mentioned was the growing negative public perception of the Big East. He indicated that there is a lot of concern about that and how it's going to affect ticket sales, ad revenue, marketing, etc. Let's face it, it's a lot harder to sell home hoops games vs SMU, Houston, Tulane and Central Florida than it is vs Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame and Louisville.

Just food for thought...

Agreed. The Big East has a ton of problems, and perception may be the biggest one.

I can understand the fears of DuPaul and Marq - but that's why sticking with UConn, Cincy, Temple, and Memphis is so important for them. Lose those basketball games and yes, they drop down a peg to A-10 level.

At some point it may make sense for the best non-football schools to have a National conference. It may be the only way to keep those school competeing against the BCS cartel. Take the best of the BE, A-10, MVC, WCC and form a new conference.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 11-29-2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umainealum

Let's face it, it's a lot harder to sell home hoops games vs SMU, Houston, Tulane and Central Florida than it is vs Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame and Louisville.

Just food for thought...

Absolutely.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 11-29-2012, 07:34 AM

I was thinking about that for Maryland as well....yes the Big Ten will have marquee hoop names- but no more Duke and North Carolina games must have their fans going absolutely nuts. There is nothing that the Big Ten will offer them that will be close to comparable.

Aceinthehole · 11-29-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecasadoSBU

10k Gampel (15k+ XL Center @ Hartford) vs Rutger's 8k RAC
40k Rent vs 52k High Point Solutions Stadium
$30 Mil Basketball training Facility vs N/A
1 BCS game, 4 minor Bowl Apps vs 6 minor bowl apps
7 WBB national Champ vs N/A
3 MBB National Champ vs N/A
2 MSOC Nat' Champs vs N/A
non-AAU vs AAU

Why in hell would Rutgers be chosen by B1G if it was based on success? Easy, that is because its not based on success. The only criteria that beats Uconn would be the AAU and the slightly higher football attendance that a mediocre team like rutgers gets. Thats all. The Big10 wants to be difference and wants to have something other than athletic success to hold its conference together. It makes sense, having the AAU membership as a requirement makes the conference "immune" to defections because no other conference has that value.

Here's a decent piece on why L'ville was selected over UConn for the ACC.

Quote:

The three reasons Louisville beat out UConn:

1. Perceived football superiority
2. Tom Jurich
3. UConn is the ACC safety school

...

The ACC, the alleged domain of superior academics, didn't blink twice at passing up UConn (63rd in the last U.S. News & World Report rankings) to accept Louisville (160th) ... UConn is the ACC's safety school. It'll be there and be thankful when/if the ACC calls.

...

The bottom line is Jurich, with 15 years of experience and program-building, won big. Certainly, Louisville's facilities are excellent. Louisville has a budget of $84 million. Not only is it the highest in the Big East, but also the ACC. (Florida State is at $81 million.) Manuel said UConn's budget is $65 million, which is about $7 million more than Maryland.

Louisville has the most profitable basketball program in the nation, yet UConn sources insisted the perception of Louisville's superior football team was at the heart of the final decision.
...

Yet I also cannot get over the feeling that if Dave Teggart missed that field goal in South Florida in 2010, UConn would have been in a better place. No sooner had he made it than the national media went on a rampage of what a joke it was UConn got into a BCS game. When the Huskies got whacked by Oklahoma, it was printed and framed for posterity. UConn went from the young program on the rise to the poster child for BCS injustices.

http://www.courant.com/sports/other/...,441386.column

Aceinthehole · 11-29-2012, 10:03 AM

Another article on UConn's "perception problem"

http://theday.com/article/20121129/SPORT01/311299580

mainejeff · 11-29-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceinthehole

Maryland and Rutgers were picked for 1 primary reason - cable subscribers!

The Big Ten Network has a nationwide deal with cable companies - if a Big Ten school is in your state you must put the BTN on the basic package. In non-Big Ten states it is on a premium package.

By having the BTN on the basic package the BTN collects a monthly fee from cable companies for each subscriber. Additionally, the more subscribers the BTN has means the network can charge higher fees to advertisers. This is all about $$$

Contiguous States, AAU membership, and a host of other things are factors, but the B1G is motivated by cable subscribers first.

New Jersey has 8.8 million residents
Maryland has 5.8 million residents
Connecticut has just 3.6 million residents

Now that the B1G has Maryland, you could see some territories in the ACC get a much closer look for future expansion to 16 - VA (Va Tech), NY ('Cuse), NC (NC State), FL (FSU)

I still think that UNC and Virginia are the next targets of the B1G. Maybe Georgia Tech in place of Virginia.........HUGE market (Atlanta) but big outlier (not that it matters anymore).

umainealum · 11-29-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

I was thinking about that for Maryland as well....yes the Big Ten will have marquee hoop names- but no more Duke and North Carolina games must have their fans going absolutely nuts. There is nothing that the Big Ten will offer them that will be close to comparable.

Well, I would say that having home games vs Indiana, Michigan State, Ohio State, Michigan isn't all bad...and really, after those 2 (Duke & UNC), what other ACC games are Maryland fans excited for in the first place? Florida State? Miami? VA Tech? Clemson? Boston College? ACC Basketball basically revolves around the Duke/UNC rivalry. I do understand that Syracuse & Pitt will join the ACC, but that is the same as the Big Ten teams.

11-28-2012, 07:34 PM	#1291 (permalink)
ecasadoSBU Veteran Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Stony Brook, NY Posts: 2,354 Rep Power: 9250	Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming? 10k Gampel (15k+ XL Center @ Hartford) vs Rutger's 8k RAC 40k Rent vs 52k High Point Solutions Stadium $30 Mil Basketball training Facility vs N/A 1 BCS game, 4 minor Bowl Apps vs 6 minor bowl apps 7 WBB national Champ vs N/A 3 MBB National Champ vs N/A 2 MSOC Nat' Champs vs N/A non-AAU vs AAU Why in hell would Rutgers be chosen by B1G if it was based on success? Easy, that is because its not based on success. The only criteria that beats Uconn would be the AAU and the slightly higher football attendance that a mediocre team like rutgers gets. Thats all. The Big10 wants to be difference and wants to have something other than athletic success to hold its conference together. It makes sense, having the AAU membership as a requirement makes the conference "immune" to defections because no other conference has that value. __________________ Everything a Stony Brook Fan Needs: SBU FANS Message Board - http://sbufan.createaforum.com/index.php I'MASEAWOLF News/Fan board/Blog: http://www.imaseawolf.com/ WUSB.FM - SBU Athletics Radio Streaming & Sports Blog: http://sbradiosports.blogspot.com/ Official Stony Brook Athletics Site: http://www.goseawolves.org/

11-28-2012, 07:53 PM	#1292 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,455 Rep Power: 62496	Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming? Both Maryland and Rutgers have significantly larger endowments than UConn though. Approx $800mm and $700mm to only approx $350mm for UConn. Most of the Big Ten schools have substantial endowments greater than $1bn __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

11-28-2012, 08:01 PM	#1293 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,455 Rep Power: 62496	Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming? The AAU really is a funny thing to me. Rutgers and SUNY Buffalo along with Harvard and Yale to form an "elite membership". That's like Wal-Mart trying to tell me I can buy luxury goods at its stores. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

11-29-2012, 06:47 AM	#1297 (permalink)
Aceinthehole Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,545 Rep Power: 8611	Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming? Maryland and Rutgers were picked for 1 primary reason - cable subscribers! The Big Ten Network has a nationwide deal with cable companies - if a Big Ten school is in your state you must put the BTN on the basic package. In non-Big Ten states it is on a premium package. By having the BTN on the basic package the BTN collects a monthly fee from cable companies for each subscriber. Additionally, the more subscribers the BTN has means the network can charge higher fees to advertisers. This is all about $$$ Contiguous States, AAU membership, and a host of other things are factors, but the B1G is motivated by cable subscribers first. New Jersey has 8.8 million residents Maryland has 5.8 million residents Connecticut has just 3.6 million residents Now that the B1G has Maryland, you could see some territories in the ACC get a much closer look for future expansion to 16 - VA (Va Tech), NY ('Cuse), NC (NC State), FL (FSU)

11-29-2012, 07:34 AM	#1301 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,455 Rep Power: 62496	Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming? I was thinking about that for Maryland as well....yes the Big Ten will have marquee hoop names- but no more Duke and North Carolina games must have their fans going absolutely nuts. There is nothing that the Big Ten will offer them that will be close to comparable. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005 Last edited by UVM Hoop Cat; 11-29-2012 at 07:39 AM.

11-29-2012, 10:03 AM	#1303 (permalink)
Aceinthehole Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,545 Rep Power: 8611	Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming? Another article on UConn's "perception problem" http://theday.com/article/20121129/SPORT01/311299580

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