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Old 12-11-2012, 11:48 AM   #1396 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

This might sound crazy, but at this point I would not be surprised to see UConn join the Big 12. Yeah........it would be horrible for travel for their "minor" sports..........but at this point it would be great to see them give the ACC (BC!) the finger and move on. And don't underestimate the Big 12 entering the NYC market. I'm sure that compared to staying in the "Big East", UConn fans would be ecstatic about seeing teams like Texas/Oklahoma coming to Hartford in football and Kansas/Baylor in basketball.

Regarding Big East hoops..........they need 3 more to get to 10. Good point about Dayton.......I don't think that they get invited. Big East hoops needs MARKETS! I see Xavier (Cincinnati), Butler (Indianapolis) and Richmond as the top 3 candidates at this point.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:11 PM   #1397 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

Holy crap...a 21-team Atlantic-10...wow! I can't imagine the 7 Big East schools would do that, but good lord have mercy. I guess you just play everyone once for 20 games...

I would have to think there would be a pretty decent amount of interest in that league given the markets & overall quality of teams. I would also wonder if some of the "lesser" hoops programs may not get dismissed from the league.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ference-source

"The Atlantic 10 has discussed the possibility of a 21-team basketball league in the event that the changing conference landscape makes high-profile Big East schools available, a source with direct knowledge of the situation told ESPN.com Tuesday.

The A-10 has been proactive over the last year, strengthening its brand as a high-profile basketball conference with the additions of Butler and VCU, two programs that were in the 2011 Final Four.

The A-10 currently is a 16-team conference for the 2012-13 season, but Temple and Charlotte are set to leave for the Big East and Conference USA, respectively.

The 21-team model would occur if the A-10 were to add the seven Big East Catholic schools (Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova) that met Sunday in New York with Big East commissioner Mike Aresco to go over their options."
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:23 PM   #1398 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by umainealum View Post
Holy crap...a 21-team Atlantic-10...wow! I can't imagine the 7 Big East schools would do that, but good lord have mercy. I guess you just play everyone once for 20 games...

I would have to think there would be a pretty decent amount of interest in that league given the markets & overall quality of teams. I would also wonder if some of the "lesser" hoops programs may not get dismissed from the league.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ference-source

"The Atlantic 10 has discussed the possibility of a 21-team basketball league in the event that the changing conference landscape makes high-profile Big East schools available, a source with direct knowledge of the situation told ESPN.com Tuesday.

The A-10 has been proactive over the last year, strengthening its brand as a high-profile basketball conference with the additions of Butler and VCU, two programs that were in the 2011 Final Four.

The A-10 currently is a 16-team conference for the 2012-13 season, but Temple and Charlotte are set to leave for the Big East and Conference USA, respectively.

The 21-team model would occur if the A-10 were to add the seven Big East Catholic schools (Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova) that met Sunday in New York with Big East commissioner Mike Aresco to go over their options."


I'll just cut and paste this comment from below the article:

Of all the realignment moves, this actually makes sense.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:24 PM   #1399 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by umainealum View Post
I would also wonder if some of the "lesser" hoops programs may not get dismissed from the league.
How? People always eventually bring this up in message board conference expansion debates, but it never happens in real life. Can you give me examples of this happening? There's been league discussions after major malfeasance (Penn State, Saint Bonaventure) and schools that bailed on leagues that were about to punish them (Chicago State) but no recent forced removals I can think of. The idea of a "we don't like your market and 9-23 hoops record anymore, get out" vote and the potential legal and political doors that would open seems exceptionally unlikely to happen anytime soon.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:42 PM   #1400 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by Rhett1 View Post
How? People always eventually bring this up in message board conference expansion debates, but it never happens in real life. Can you give me examples of this happening? There's been league discussions after major malfeasance (Penn State, Saint Bonaventure) and schools that bailed on leagues that were about to punish them (Chicago State) but no recent forced removals I can think of. The idea of a "we don't like your market and 9-23 hoops record anymore, get out" vote and the potential legal and political doors that would open seems exceptionally unlikely to happen anytime soon.
Seems to me Temple was booted from the Big East at one point...

And I will add this...what we are seeing & could potentially see is unprecedented with all the movement so I would say that anything is possible at this point, regardless of what has occured in the past. Times are a changin'...
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:51 PM   #1401 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

There's just no chance of that happening unless Georgetown and Villanova pull a hoops only deal with the ACC out of their butts. If the 7 BE only schools want to pouch the A10, they will. It really is that simple.

Getting beyond the legal issues of the current BE (exit fees, dissolving the league, the name of the new league, MSG contract) is another story. But if they want to pouch the A10 that will not be very hard.

You think the Xavier AD would be able to face his donors and say "Yeah, we thought about moving to join the new Big East...ya know Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, Marquette, DePaul with 4 NBA arenas...but we want to keep taking trips to St. Bona and the gyms at Fordham, GW, LaSalle instead.

This is just the A10 trying to look good
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:05 PM   #1402 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by TerrierNation View Post
Getting beyond the legal issues of the current BE (exit fees, dissolving the league, the name of the new league, MSG contract) is another story. But if they want to pouch the A10 that will not be very hard.

You think the Xavier AD would be able to face his donors and say "Yeah, we thought about moving to join the new Big East...ya know Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, Marquette, DePaul with 4 NBA arenas...but we want to keep taking trips to St. Bona and the gyms at Fordham, GW, LaSalle instead.

This is just the A10 trying to look good
+1

Also, Temple was only an "associate member" of the BE for football. They had a contract with the league that was simply not renewed - they were never "kicked out"
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:49 PM   #1403 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by umainealum View Post
The "Catholic 7" of the Big East met with the commish over the weekend...man, if they do decide to break away, all hell will literally break loose.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...ls-sources-say
I would add Notre Dame to that list, even thought they have football. Because they play an independent football schedule, they could join this list for basketball and not upset any apple carts.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:55 PM   #1404 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by TerrierNation View Post
There's just no chance of that happening unless Georgetown and Villanova pull a hoops only deal with the ACC out of their butts. If the 7 BE only schools want to pouch the A10, they will. It really is that simple.

Getting beyond the legal issues of the current BE (exit fees, dissolving the league, the name of the new league, MSG contract) is another story. But if they want to pouch the A10 that will not be very hard.

You think the Xavier AD would be able to face his donors and say "Yeah, we thought about moving to join the new Big East...ya know Georgetown, St. Johns, Villanova, Marquette, DePaul with 4 NBA arenas...but we want to keep taking trips to St. Bona and the gyms at Fordham, GW, LaSalle instead.

This is just the A10 trying to look good
Agreed.

The only question is how many..........3 to get to 10 with home and homes with everyone.........or 5 to get to 12 and have a divisional set-up to allow for more non-conference games.

If they go to 5 they add:

Xavier
Dayton
Butler
St. Louis
Richmond
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:01 PM   #1405 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Agreed.

The only question is how many..........3 to get to 10 with home and homes with everyone.........or 5 to get to 12 and have a divisional set-up to allow for more non-conference games.

If they go to 5 they add:

Xavier
Dayton
Butler
St. Louis
Richmond
Completely agree. Alot of people are throwing VCU, Creighton and George Mason around, but I think you nailed the group of 5. I think they'd rather stay private if possible. And I think they'd like to smack down the A10 as much as possible to create separation so why bother with Creighton in the Horizon League? Plus Omaha is pretty far.

I think you go bigger so you have more product for a television deal and more of a chance at retaining MSG. The 5 you mentioned create a perfect 6 and 6 split and you play your division twice and the other division once for 18 games.

I think it is worth trying to add some of the football playing members (Memphis, Temple, UCONN, Cincy) to get to 16. Then those schools can be football affiliates in the MAC or CUSA 2.0. That league would actually rival the ACC top to bottom.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:50 PM   #1406 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by TerrierNation View Post
Completely agree. Alot of people are throwing VCU, Creighton and George Mason around, but I think you nailed the group of 5. I think they'd rather stay private if possible. And I think they'd like to smack down the A10 as much as possible to create separation so why bother with Creighton in the Horizon League? Plus Omaha is pretty far.

I think you go bigger so you have more product for a television deal and more of a chance at retaining MSG. The 5 you mentioned create a perfect 6 and 6 split and you play your division twice and the other division once for 18 games.

I think it is worth trying to add some of the football playing members (Memphis, Temple, UCONN, Cincy) to get to 16. Then those schools can be football affiliates in the MAC or CUSA 2.0. That league would actually rival the ACC top to bottom.
So if it becomes the Big East 12 then divisions would be:

Providence
St. Johns (NYC)
Seton Hall
Villanova (Philadelphia)
Georgetown (Washington DC)
Richmond

Dayton
Xavier (Cincinnati)
Butler (Indianapolis)
St. Louis
DePaul (Chicago)
Marquette (Milwaukee)
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:28 PM   #1407 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by mainejeff View Post
So if it becomes the Big East 12 then divisions would be:

Providence
St. Johns (NYC)
Seton Hall
Villanova (Philadelphia)
Georgetown (Washington DC)
Richmond

Dayton
Xavier (Cincinnati)
Butler (Indianapolis)
St. Louis
DePaul (Chicago)
Marquette (Milwaukee)
Seems about right if it goes through. Then Mason, Drexel, Northeastern to the A10? Maybe Fairfield?
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:29 PM   #1408 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by mainejeff View Post
So if it becomes the Big East 12 then divisions would be:

Providence
St. Johns (NYC)
Seton Hall
Villanova (Philadelphia)
Georgetown (Washington DC)
Richmond

Dayton
Xavier (Cincinnati)
Butler (Indianapolis)
St. Louis
DePaul (Chicago)
Marquette (Milwaukee)
I like that league right there quite a bit...and I would think there would be some TV people with a fair amount of interest in something like that.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:06 AM   #1409 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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I like that league right there quite a bit...and I would think there would be some TV people with a fair amount of interest in something like that.
I like it a lot too. I think it's because it is the first league we've seen (in years?) that actually could make sense for all the right reasons.

All private (10 Catholic and 2 private) schools of similar size with the exception of the behemoth of DePaul. All have solid basketball histories with good fan bases and arenas larger than 7000 capacity, including 5 NBA arenas represented with some of the scheduling arrangements (Bucks, Wizards, Knicks, Sixers, Bulls). A handful of markets represented.

Scheduling would be too easy with these divisions. Travel is reasonable. Easy to pair up rivals for the most part. There's also really no outliers generally speaking. I really hope they do it.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:08 AM   #1410 (permalink)
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Re: Conference Expansion: Explosion Coming?

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Originally Posted by umainealum View Post
Seems to me Temple was booted from the Big East at one point...

And I will add this...what we are seeing & could potentially see is unprecedented with all the movement so I would say that anything is possible at this point, regardless of what has occured in the past. Times are a changin'...
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+1

Also, Temple was only an "associate member" of the BE for football. They had a contract with the league that was simply not renewed - they were never "kicked out"

Thanks Ace for beating me to the punch on this.

This is why the voting rights thing in the Big East is so important. If you have full voting rights, you "own" a share of the league. No one is getting kicked out of a league. Conference realignment doesn't change our legal system. "Times aren't a changin'" in the way you think.
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