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Old 10-22-2011, 06:06 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

i'm not a big fan of offensive rating. i think it works better for a team than an individual. I personally like TS% to see offensive effiency.
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Old 10-22-2011, 06:18 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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Originally Posted by uvm4life20 View Post
i'm not a big fan of offensive rating. i think it works better for a team than an individual. I personally like TS% to see offensive effiency.
If you're looking strictly at shooting proficiency, then yes, TS% is the best metric. I don't think this is really disputed by anyone.

If you're looking at overall offensive value, though? TS% is woefully incomplete - there's no weight given to anything that isn't a shot attempt.

The Offensive Rating (or Points Per Possession) for a team is always going to be a more accurate measurement of efficiency than an individual rating because the problem of how to assign possessions to individuals is entirely avoided - but for purposes of evaluating individual offensive efficiency, ORtg is about as good of a measurement as we have.
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Old 10-22-2011, 06:49 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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Nice write-up...except for one thing. I can GUARANTEE that Black will be on one of the All-conference teams...he's a top 2-4 PG in this conference with CDLR being the best. A 43% career three point shooter, last year 12ppg (46% fg)...I gotta say, I strongly disagree. In fact, he's more of a proven commodity than Suero is who'm no one has seen play yet let alone hype.

Come to think of it...mediocre writeup at least as it pertains to UA.

BTW, do you honestly feel anyone here (UA fans) is hyping Suero? I don't think many of us have said much of anything about him.

Nobody here has seen Suero play. Plenty of other people have. I don't want to put words in Sam's mouth, but knowing him, "UA hype machine" doesn't mean this forum.

Obviously the preseason teams aren't based on who is a "proven commodity," otherwise there wouldn't be three transfers named and Irving wouldn't be POY.

In re: Black, it depends on what you want in a point guard. CDLR is the best proven commodity at the position right now and you can tell how high we are on Irving. The guy who you can debate is Torres - Black is clearly the superior shooter/scorer, Torres clearly the superior distributor. In our view, Torres is the more disruptive defender when healthy (which he currently is).

Like I said, it's projection. We're not oracles If you think Black should be on a team, I can't really argue that strongly against it. We could have listed the top three teams in any order, we could have listed the bottom three teams in any order, there's a few guys we could have put on the 3rd team but didn't... you see what I'm saying. There's always going to be a certain amount of guesswork involved. I think one thing you'll see from both of us this year is a more concerted attempt to label projections/predictions as such (in this case, it's in the post title) so that it's more clear when we're presenting fact and when we're offering our opinion.
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Old 10-22-2011, 07:36 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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There's but a lot of talk about Konan...I've never seen him play, but there was also a lot of talk about Hazel coming into BU and Hazel was solid defensively for BU, but really wasn't a huge impact guy- at least not in the way Partin was.

How similar are the two players? Just curious, because again I've never seen Konan play and am hoping Far or someone from UNH can describe his game.
Konan and Hazel are nothing alike as players... they have almost zero in common on the court. Hazel is a really good shot-blocker, but on offense is a non factor.

Konan has the talent, skill and athleticism to be a very big time offensive player (would UNH know what to do with him is another story). He's 6'5", is an explosive leaper and a solid ball handler: can put it on the deck and attack the hoop on drives from behind the arc, attack his man off the dribble... He can also step behind the arc and knock down the 3 ball and really create his own offense... Athletic and strong. He's a 3 who will be playing the 4.
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Old 10-22-2011, 07:41 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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BTW, do you honestly feel anyone here (UA fans) is hyping Suero? I don't think many of us have said much of anything about him.

None of our articles are written to reference posters from this board, or this board at all. When we say the hype machine, it has NOTHING to do with the fans... Let's just say the UA coaches and administration are always raving about the new guy coming in, and it was a way to say "Suero is going to be different from those guys (Harris, Ambrose... there is a Laundry list of guys I could list here if I wanted to take the time) and that our projections of him are not based on as much of what is coming out of the UA coaching office as it is what I have heard from several other players and talent evaluators/coaches who think he is going to be really good...

As far as a mediocre write up, whatevs, can't please anyone. I can guarantee I put far more time pounding the pavement and manning the phone lines for this prediction than anyone else out there in any capacity...

As for Black, we'll see...
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:09 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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Konan and Hazel are nothing alike as players... they have almost zero in common on the court. Hazel is a really good shot-blocker, but on offense is a non factor.

Konan has the talent, skill and athleticism to be a very big time offensive player (would UNH know what to do with him is another story). He's 6'5", is an explosive leaper and a solid ball handler: can put it on the deck and attack the hoop on drives from behind the arc, attack his man off the dribble... He can also step behind the arc and knock down the 3 ball and really create his own offense... Athletic and strong. He's a 3 who will be playing the 4.
Sounds good RE: Konan.

if Myrick and Abreu return to form from injury + Konan, Benson etc UNH could be pretty disruptive this season.
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:49 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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Originally Posted by farfromtheshow View Post
None of our articles are written to reference posters from this board, or this board at all. When we say the hype machine, it has NOTHING to do with the fans... Let's just say the UA coaches and administration are always raving about the new guy coming in, and it was a way to say "Suero is going to be different from those guys (Harris, Ambrose... there is a Laundry list of guys I could list here if I wanted to take the time) and that our projections of him are not based on as much of what is coming out of the UA coaching office as it is what I have heard from several other players and talent evaluators/coaches who think he is going to be really good...

As far as a mediocre write up, whatevs, can't please anyone. I can guarantee I put far more time pounding the pavement and manning the phone lines for this prediction than anyone else out there in any capacity...

As for Black, we'll see...
Boy, for a professional you seem to get offended easily. The mediocre part was a bit TIC. Thank you for clarifying the Suero take, honestly to me it read as if you guys were saying that the UA fans were hyping him. My apologies there.

I like reading your stuff...a lot I might add, keep up the good work. I know someone had to be left off the list...well see what Black does this season.
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:53 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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Originally Posted by Air Holland View Post
Nobody here has seen Suero play. Plenty of other people have. I don't want to put words in Sam's mouth, but knowing him, "UA hype machine" doesn't mean this forum.

Obviously the preseason teams aren't based on who is a "proven commodity," otherwise there wouldn't be three transfers named and Irving wouldn't be POY.

In re: Black, it depends on what you want in a point guard. CDLR is the best proven commodity at the position right now and you can tell how high we are on Irving. The guy who you can debate is Torres - Black is clearly the superior shooter/scorer, Torres clearly the superior distributor. In our view, Torres is the more disruptive defender when healthy (which he currently is).

Like I said, it's projection. We're not oracles If you think Black should be on a team, I can't really argue that strongly against it. We could have listed the top three teams in any order, we could have listed the bottom three teams in any order, there's a few guys we could have put on the 3rd team but didn't... you see what I'm saying. There's always going to be a certain amount of guesswork involved. I think one thing you'll see from both of us this year is a more concerted attempt to label projections/predictions as such (in this case, it's in the post title) so that it's more clear when we're presenting fact and when we're offering our opinion.
Air, I get all of that...I'm just registering my POV saying I disagree that he was left off but we'll see soon enough once the games get going. Also, thanks for clarifying the Suero point, obviously what I read and what you intended diverged a bit there.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:23 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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Air, I get all of that...I'm just registering my POV saying I disagree that he was left off but we'll see soon enough once the games get going. Also, thanks for clarifying the Suero point, obviously what I read and what you intended diverged a bit there.
Yeah, everyone has their own opinions, rankings, etc. It's what gets us through the preseason. Can't be November soon enough. And I wasn't surprised that you thought Black should be on the third team - he's your boy - if anything, I was surprised that you didn't advocate for Devlin as well. He also got strong consideration, as did a few other guys.

FYI, since I don't want to take credit for the content of the predictions... 90% of the text there is Sam. The lists themselves are a collaboration, but Sam did all the legwork.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:30 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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Yeah, everyone has their own opinions, rankings, etc. It's what gets us through the preseason. Can't be November soon enough. And I wasn't surprised that you thought Black should be on the third team - he's your boy - if anything, I was surprised that you didn't advocate for Devlin as well. He also got strong consideration, as did a few other guys.

FYI, since I don't want to take credit for the content of the predictions... 90% of the text there is Sam. The lists themselves are a collaboration, but Sam did all the legwork.
To be honest, I'm surprised to see you guys this high on suero...
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Old 10-23-2011, 07:30 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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There's but a lot of talk about Konan...I've never seen him play, but there was also a lot of talk about Hazel coming into BU and Hazel was solid defensively for BU, but really wasn't a huge impact guy- at least not in the way Partin was.

How similar are the two players? Just curious, because again I've never seen Konan play and am hoping Far or someone from UNH can describe his game.
There is more to the game of basketball than scoring. Patrick Hazel was an impact player on the defensive end. His rebounding, shot blocking and defensive presence was the difference maker for the Terriers last year. Without Hazel, BU doesn't win it - end of story.

UVM Hoop Cat, I will say this repectfully because I don't want to get into a fight but sometimes you act like someone who is merely an average fan and not someone who played the game. In comparing Partin with Hazel, it seems like you are rating Partin as more of an impact player because Hazel never scored 30.

O'brien was out, Pelage was limited due to injurues and Hazel was the work horse on this team, he carried the inside load basically all by himself. He was a defensive force and in my opinion more valuable to the team than DP who did nothing else but score.

Just my opinion.
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:11 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

there is usually 7 guys on any given team where you can say if they werent there they wouldnt of won it. Hazel was easily more replaceable than partin last year. you also have to look at how partin spreads the floor on offense while hazel is a non factor and his guy can help off of him.
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:14 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

air hollard- i just dont like any system that rewards players for somebody else rebounding there miss. There is a lot of things that dont get factored in to how good somebody is on offense. Players like Marqus who get double teamed and get plenty of hockey assist have huge impact on games but it doesnt always show in the stat column
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:28 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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there is usually 7 guys on any given team where you can say if they werent there they wouldnt of won it. Hazel was easily more replaceable than partin last year. you also have to look at how partin spreads the floor on offense while hazel is a non factor and his guy can help off of him.
Hazel is easily replaceable? I guess you must have been sleeping during the OT game where we lost to BU in OT last year without John Holland. Hazel was an interior beast, pulled down rebounds and blocked shots all game especially in the overtime session.

Partin who is just a scorer is more replaceable. I agree with Air Holland and FFTS. Outside of scoring Partin doesn't give you much. He is a turnover machine and doesn't pass or play great defense or rebound.
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Old 10-23-2011, 09:36 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Re: OBW Catch-All Thread

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Hazel is easily replaceable? I guess you must have been sleeping during the OT game where we lost to BU in OT last year without John Holland. Hazel was an interior beast, pulled down rebounds and blocked shots all game especially in the overtime session.

Partin who is just a scorer is more replaceable. I agree with Air Holland and FFTS. Outside of scoring Partin doesn't give you much. He is a turnover machine and doesn't pass or play great defense or rebound.
Agree! Scoring is the most obvious part of the game, but if a player is just a scorer, what happens when their shot is off? Do they contribute on defense? Can they rebound or pass? Hazel is the type of guy winning teams have; Partin will be replaced next year by Papale, who is a least as good a pure shooter. Replacing Hazel, IMO, may be harder for BU.
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