OBW Catch-All Thread

[Seth]

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

This should have its own thread w/ title so it doesn't get buried and the mods should sticky it and lock the comments.

Agreed! Using Kickstarter is a great idea, though I would build in a little wiggle room for yourselves to account for inflation/gas price changes, etc.

[bosiydid]

My updated power rankings as of tonight...

- UVM
- SBU
- UA
- Hartford
- BU
- Maine
- UMBC
- UNH
- Bing

[farfromtheshow]

Originally Posted by bosiydid

My updated power rankings as of tonight...

- UVM
- SBU
- UA
- Hartford
- BU
- Maine
- UMBC
- UNH
- Bing

It's easy to be reactionary after a game, but I think a Vermont loss would have been a lot more telling than a Vermont win. The Cats held serve at home: Stony Brook won't win the league in a cake walk, and maybe UVM is better... but, Vermont held serve at home -- which they basically HAD to do. The Seawolves certainly left us with a TON of questions (about the 4 position? their ability to run any semblance of an offense? can they score when they can't get stops? will they ever raise there game when the stakes are bigger and rise to the occasion? Will Tommy Brenton ever score (they don't need him to be the first, second, or third option most nights, but when UVM is doubling Warney while also playing SBU really tight on the perimeter, it left Brenton wide, the F, open and he still did not look to score)?

But with all that being said, SBU still cut a massive lead to within 4 playing in the most hostile America East road environment they will face all year... maybe UVM is better, but the game didn't definitively tell me that.

[Blakely4Prez]

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

It's easy to be reactionary after a game, but I think a Vermont loss would have been a lot more telling than a Vermont win. The Cats held serve at home: Stony Brook won't win the league in a cake walk, and maybe UVM is better... but, Vermont held serve at home -- which they basically HAD to do. The Seawolves certainly left us with a TON of questions (about the 4 position? their ability to run any semblance of an offense? can they score when they can't get stops? will they ever raise there game when the stakes are bigger and rise to the occasion? Will Tommy Brenton ever score (they don't need him to be the first, second, or third option most nights, but when UVM is doubling Warney while also playing SBU really tight on the perimeter, it left Brenton wide, the F, open and he still did not look to score)?

But with all that being said, SBU still cut a massive lead to within 4 playing in the most hostile America East road environment they will face all year... maybe UVM is better, but the game didn't definitively tell me that.

I don't disagree with you, but, if we are going to play the questioning game I'd like to add the following couple thoughts.

1. What would the score/outcome be if Voelkel isn't stupid and doesn't get t'd up to foul out with 6 min left? That was a huge swing cause not only was voelkels precense missed but within 20 seconds after the made free throws its a 7 point swing. (UVM up 11 with the ball and chance to score to SBU two foul shots and a three). My opinion, I don't think the score gets as close as 4 if that doesn't happen and i think UVM continues to cruise. SBU is did a great job capitalizing on that mistake by Voelkel. However, it happened and this just a hypothetical but my opinion that totally changed the game.

2. Will Pikiell make the right end of game decisions in the big one? He always seems to be questioned by his fanbase for things that are blatantly obvious in big games. Yesterday there were two 1) Warney was virtually unguardable by UVM and he only gets 4 touches in the second half?? And 2) the final timeout called with 2 minutes remaining.

3. At the end of the season, how much improvement do both of these teams get with AJ and Luke coming back from injury? My assessment right now is little to none other than depth. So far, Rugg and Puriefoy have been producing their numbers in their absence if not more than them. When they come back it may be even more difficult withy them in the lineup if they aren't completely ready cause it always takes a few games to shake off the rust...unless you are Coppenrath coming back from injury in the AE championship dropping 43!! That still amazes me.

[UVM Hoop Cat]

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

It's easy to be reactionary after a game, but I think a Vermont loss would have been a lot more telling than a Vermont win. The Cats held serve at home: Stony Brook won't win the league in a cake walk, and maybe UVM is better... but, Vermont held serve at home -- which they basically HAD to do. The Seawolves certainly left us with a TON of questions (about the 4 position? their ability to run any semblance of an offense? can they score when they can't get stops? will they ever raise there game when the stakes are bigger and rise to the occasion? Will Tommy Brenton ever score (they don't need him to be the first, second, or third option most nights, but when UVM is doubling Warney while also playing SBU really tight on the perimeter, it left Brenton wide, the F, open and he still did not look to score)?

But with all that being said, SBU still cut a massive lead to within 4 playing in the most hostile America East road environment they will face all year... maybe UVM is better, but the game didn't definitively tell me that.

Yeah, I agree that this was an important game but there are no absolutes like Vermont is the clear-cut best game after the 6th conference game. As I said before the game, it's far too early. We have a bunch of difficult games coming up. It was important to win this game for a couple of reasons- it's at home and Pritchard will be a much tougher place to win when we go down there, and it's important to make sure you don't lose to a team twice in the regular season IMO. I think our play has shown that we can certainly be the best and beat the best on any given night.


As far as Brenton goes, I know you love him but by taking all these hypothetical shots when he's left open, why do you assume he's going to make them? His 3 he shot last night early in the game didn't even draw rim and almost broke the backboard. Brenton is shooting his lowest FG% of his career and is shooting 17% from 3. His FG attempts have increased and his % decreased. Contrast that with Voelkel who isn't getting nearly enough praise for the work he did on his shooting over the summer, and he's shooting 47% from 3. Brenton is most effective around the hoop and driving to the basket, but UVM shut down all those things last night. I think any team would live w/ Brenton taking a bunch of 15-17ft jump shots, or any jump shots for that matter.

[UVM Hoop Cat]

Originally Posted by Blakely4Prez

2. Will Pikiell make the right end of game decisions in the big one? He always seems to be questioned by his fanbase for things that are blatantly obvious in big games. Yesterday there were two 1) Warney was virtually unguardable by UVM and he only gets 4 touches in the second half?? And 2) the final timeout called with 2 minutes remaining.

Did anyone see Warney make a shot outside of 1ft from the basket? No- because the only points he scored were from when his teammates were able to penetrate and find him inside for an easy hoop or he was able to grab an offensive board right around the hoop and put it back. Warney is essentially an immovable object in the post and tough for any of our players to guard because of his sheer size, but at this point in his career he has no other ways to score other than being right around the hoop, and UVM did an outstanding job of denying him the ball and making sure he didn't get it in a place where he could score- which is essentially- deep in the post right under the hoop.

I'm sure Pikiell would have loved to go to Warney each trip down but Vermont's defense just made that impossible by denying him the ball, denying entry passes, and in most cases in the second half especially in order to touch the ball Warney would have had to have caught the ball in a place where right now he can't do anything with it.

[UVM Hoop Cat]

Originally Posted by Blakely4Prez

1. What would the score/outcome be if Voelkel isn't stupid and doesn't get t'd up to foul out with 6 min left? That was a huge swing cause not only was voelkels precense missed but within 20 seconds after the made free throws its a 7 point swing. (UVM up 11 with the ball and chance to score to SBU two foul shots and a three). My opinion, I don't think the score gets as close as 4 if that doesn't happen and i think UVM continues to cruise. SBU is did a great job capitalizing on that mistake by Voelkel. However, it happened and this just a hypothetical but my opinion that totally changed the game.

It's a great observation and very good point. If anyone still wasn't sure who makes our team go, they shouldn't be after seeing Voelkel foul out and the ensuing collective play. Luckily, the guys stepped up. It happened, but I think the chances of SBU rallying the way they did is somewhere close to 0 if Voelkel is still on the court.

Like I said in my previous post, there were a ton of teachable moments in this win- and that play was certainly one of them.

[nycwolf]

Originally Posted by Blakely4Prez

I don't disagree with you, but, if we are going to play the questioning game I'd like to add the following couple thoughts.

1. What would the score/outcome be if Voelkel isn't stupid and doesn't get t'd up to foul out with 6 min left? That was a huge swing cause not only was voelkels precense missed but within 20 seconds after the made free throws its a 7 point swing. (UVM up 11 with the ball and chance to score to SBU two foul shots and a three). My opinion, I don't think the score gets as close as 4 if that doesn't happen and i think UVM continues to cruise. SBU is did a great job capitalizing on that mistake by Voelkel. However, it happened and this just a hypothetical but my opinion that totally changed the game.

2. Will Pikiell make the right end of game decisions in the big one? He always seems to be questioned by his fanbase for things that are blatantly obvious in big games. Yesterday there were two 1) Warney was virtually unguardable by UVM and he only gets 4 touches in the second half?? And 2) the final timeout called with 2 minutes remaining.

3. At the end of the season, how much improvement do both of these teams get with AJ and Luke coming back from injury? My assessment right now is little to none other than depth. So far, Rugg and Puriefoy have been producing their numbers in their absence if not more than them. When they come back it may be even more difficult withy them in the lineup if they aren't completely ready cause it always takes a few games to shake off the rust...unless you are Coppenrath coming back from injury in the AE championship dropping 43!! That still amazes me.

please dont forget Bracey played 12 minutes last night. gues how many total he played in our last 3 confernce game blowouts? 11

[nycwolf]

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

Did anyone see Warney make a shot outside of 1ft from the basket? No- because the only points he scored were from when his teammates were able to penetrate and find him inside for an easy hoop or he was able to grab an offensive board right around the hoop and put it back. Warney is essentially an immovable object in the post and tough for any of our players to guard because of his sheer size, but at this point in his career he has no other ways to score other than being right around the hoop, and UVM did an outstanding job of denying him the ball and making sure he didn't get it in a place where he could score- which is essentially- deep in the post right under the hoop.

I'm sure Pikiell would have loved to go to Warney each trip down but Vermont's defense just made that impossible by denying him the ball, denying entry passes, and in most cases in the second half especially in order to touch the ball Warney would have had to have caught the ball in a place where right now he can't do anything with it.

You know warney had 15 and 10 right? you speak of him as if he is not good. News flash he was 6-9 and you had to foul him a couple times. He is the best rookie in the league and best pure big man in the league. for the record he is much better than O'Day. a guy you tried to compare him to after seton hall.

Vermont had a good defensive game plan. they had a guy in front and behind warney pretty much the whole game making it very difficult for him to touch it. that says alot about how good he is but says nothing about his immediate skill set during the game. SBU's problem is they play mcalister and tommy doesnt score making it very easy to double warney. the only way no one can help on warney is if tommy makes the entry pass and mcalister is on the bench.

[farfromtheshow]

Originally Posted by Blakely4Prez

I don't disagree with you, but, if we are going to play the questioning game I'd like to add the following couple thoughts.

1. What would the score/outcome be if Voelkel isn't stupid and doesn't get t'd up to foul out with 6 min left? That was a huge swing cause not only was voelkels precense missed but within 20 seconds after the made free throws its a 7 point swing. (UVM up 11 with the ball and chance to score to SBU two foul shots and a three). My opinion, I don't think the score gets as close as 4 if that doesn't happen and i think UVM continues to cruise. SBU is did a great job capitalizing on that mistake by Voelkel. However, it happened and this just a hypothetical but my opinion that totally changed the game.

2. Will Pikiell make the right end of game decisions in the big one? He always seems to be questioned by his fanbase for things that are blatantly obvious in big games. Yesterday there were two 1) Warney was virtually unguardable by UVM and he only gets 4 touches in the second half?? And 2) the final timeout called with 2 minutes remaining.

3. At the end of the season, how much improvement do both of these teams get with AJ and Luke coming back from injury? My assessment right now is little to none other than depth. So far, Rugg and Puriefoy have been producing their numbers in their absence if not more than them. When they come back it may be even more difficult withy them in the lineup if they aren't completely ready cause it always takes a few games to shake off the rust...unless you are Coppenrath coming back from injury in the AE championship dropping 43!! That still amazes me.

I agree with ALL of these poinst (I actually alluded to many of them in my writeup on OBW late last night. And I'm certainly not saying that SBU still is my top team in the league, but what I do need is some more time to go back and break down the game, and both teams seasons with Matt Whitrock, like we do at the end of every week before we compile our power rankings.

[farfromtheshow]

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

As far as Brenton goes, I know you love him but by taking all these hypothetical shots when he's left open, why do you assume he's going to make them? His 3 he shot last night early in the game didn't even draw rim and almost broke the backboard. Brenton is shooting his lowest FG% of his career and is shooting 17% from 3. His FG attempts have increased and his % decreased. Contrast that with Voelkel who isn't getting nearly enough praise for the work he did on his shooting over the summer, and he's shooting 47% from 3. Brenton is most effective around the hoop and driving to the basket, but UVM shut down all those things last night. I think any team would live w/ Brenton taking a bunch of 15-17ft jump shots, or any jump shots for that matter.

I agree completely, and, ironically, I've been writing something on the very topic all morning... With that said, Vermont's game plan by the end of the game was to double off of Brenton on to Warney as soon as he was down the court, and to flood the perimeter to play right up on Coley and Puriefoy, which left Brenton completely unguarded. He literally got the ball with a 6-8 foot cushion: he needed to at least make an attempt to either get to the rim or shoot the ball to try and keep the defenses honest, because they were giving him whatever he wanted to double Warney.

[UVM Hoop Cat]

Originally Posted by nycwolf

You know warney had 15 and 10 right? you speak of him as if he is not good. News flash he was 6-9 and you had to foul him a couple times. He is the best rookie in the league and best pure big man in the league. for the record he is much better than O'Day. a guy you tried to compare him to after seton hall.

Vermont had a good defensive game plan. they had a guy in front and behind warney pretty much the whole game making it very difficult for him to touch it. that says alot about how good he is but says nothing about his immediate skill set during the game. SBU's problem is they play mcalister and tommy doesnt score making it very easy to double warney. the only way no one can help on warney is if tommy makes the entry pass and mcalister is on the bench.

I think Warney is tremendous. I'm just pointing out the facts of where he got all of his points. Vermont did a great job making sure, especially in the second half, he didn't get the ball where he can do something with it.

If he doesn't get the ball there, he's not going to score. At least not right now.

[nycwolf]

vermont is a great defensive team that stiffles SBU every year. I keep telling myself last night was an 8 point loss on the road against the best eam in the league where they are now 1-11 all time. gave up 81 points which is truly an outlier for them. this wasnt all that bad of a loss for SBU i think it just feels worse. like we will never beat these guys type thing. Vermont has that "it" factor that stony brook doesnt have right now. i think it is a cockyness that says we own this league. With AJ back and a little more confidence and coaching gut checks vermont's visit to pritchard will be exciting and most likely with first place implications on the line.

[Blakely4Prez]

Originally Posted by nycwolf

vermont is a great defensive team that stiffles SBU every year. I keep telling myself last night was an 8 point loss on the road against the best eam in the league where they are now 1-11 all time. gave up 81 points which is truly an outlier for them. this wasnt all that bad of a loss for SBU i think it just feels worse. like we will never beat these guys type thing. Vermont has that "it" factor that stony brook doesnt have right now. i think it is a cockyness that says we own this league. With AJ back and a little more confidence and coaching gut checks vermont's visit to pritchard will be exciting and most likely with first place implications on the line.

...and again, today's UHartford vs UAlbany is extremely important in terms of tiebreakers for the end of the season in terms of seeding. If UHartford/UAlbany end up somewhere near the 3/4 seed where both are projected, would hate having to play Albany at home in the tournament.

[nycwolf]

Sam have teh coaches ever been right with the pre-season picks? I dont feel like do the research figured you might know off hand.