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UNHFan · 06-17-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dane96

If you don't think CCSU has good academics, then the Q is out!

The school in Jersey is a joke monetarily: I am not getting into that discussion again. They spend nearly half of the rest of the AE when it comes down to it.

Academically, this is the same school that allowed Ed McMahon's daughter in after she was rejected from every school she applied until he "bought a building". Seriously, I was working with them when that went down. That aside, Med School, Law school...not yet there from Q-Pac's side.

That said, my argument / rant above stands...at this point I don't think expansion has anything to do with academics anymore...it's ego, stability and money. Bring CCSU, Q and Bryant in ONLY if SBU leaves...and call it a day.

I meant Del State. I should have been clearer in my orginial post. I would love to see the Aeast get to 12 teams and hopefully this week we will hear something! If I have a vote I'm adding in the Q, CCSU, Bryant, and Monmouth,

Aceinthehole · 06-17-2012, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dane96

If you don't think CCSU has good academics, then the Q is out!

The school in Jersey is a joke monetarily: I am not getting into that discussion again. They spend nearly half of the rest of the AE when it comes down to it.

Academically, this is the same school that allowed Ed McMahon's daughter in after she was rejected from every school she applied until he "bought a building". Seriously, I was working with them when that went down. That aside, Med School, Law school...not yet there from Q-Pac's side.

That said, my argument / rant above stands...at this point I don't think expansion has anything to do with academics anymore...it's ego, stability and money. Bring CCSU, Q and Bryant in ONLY if SBU leaves...and call it a day.

I'm glad you said and and not me.

QU has grown tremondously over the years. You know how - but admitting everyone that applies. Their accepatance rate has been well over 70% for many years. If you can write the tuition check they will accept you.

They are good at growing the "name brand" - QU Poll, Law School, etc. - but the quality just isn't there. It's a school for rich kids, and not the smart one who would rather go to BU.

On the other side, CCSU acceptance rate has been steadily declining. Part of the reason is many more highly qualified students aren't getting accepted into UConn, so they are going with Central. Sure, we are still a "safety school" in that sense, but our incoming SAT scores are on par with UHa and Maine. Our alumni boasts a US Congressman, State Supreme Court Judge, and dozens of others successful people through the State. Our athletics programs speaks for itself - Howie's 3 NCAA appearances, MSoccer Sweet 16, etc.

Again, we are not a research university and our true academic "peers" are Towson, Eastern Illinois, Murray State, and Austin Peay, but by geography we can't join the OVC.

We would fit well athletically in the AE along Albany and Maine.

My hesitation with the AE is its conference leadership and future stability.

UNH_Alum_In_CT · 06-17-2012, 09:31 AM

With BU gone and AE down to eight schools, this could be an opportunity to start AE Football. You could add four football schools to get to eight for football and twelve for basketball. Then invite URI as an affiliate and you have the perfect nine for a balanced four home and four away league schedule. Personally, I think this such football league would have to be nine schools because it's going to be difficult scheduling quality OOC games going forward and for every team less than nine it becomes exponentially more difficult. There'll be no home and home series with Delaware, Villanova, JMU, W&M, Richmond and probably even Towson going forward. There's no guarantee that the OOC will be as easy as an Ivy, a Patriot and a FBS school. And to avoid future problems it would be beneficial to have more than the required six for an AQ be all sports members.I don't want to be like the Patriot with only five all sports members playing football and have my AQ dependent on affiliates.

For argument sake, let's say AE invites CCSU, Bryant, Monmouth (UNHFan's NJ school) and Delaware State (for MJ and to give UMBC somewhat of a travel partner (Morgan State or Howard would probably be better from the travel point of view)). AE Football would then be Maine, UNH, Albany, Stony Brook, CCSU, Monmouth, Bryant, Del State/Morgan State/Howard and URI.

Would UVM, UHart, Bing and UMBC approve this expansion knowing it could pass over better basketball options?
Is this football league strong enough to entice Maine and UNH to leave the CAA where multiple at large bids are usually available because of the strength of the league?
Is this league strong enough for Stony Brook to cast its lot or will they still prefer CAA Football or even stay in the Big South?
Would AE consider going to 14 schools to also get a couple of additions to please the non football schools?
Are CCSU, Bryant and Monmouth willing and capable of increasing their scholarships to at least the FBS counter level?
Will URI return to at least counter status?
How many years will it take for this AE Football League to get an AQ to the FCS Playoffs?
Will Delaware really move up to FBS? I assume JMU will. To me, the future of CAA Football hinges on Delaware because that will keep Towson, Richmond and William & Mary on board.
Does anyone think that getting Delaware and Towson to return knowing there will be football isn't the pipe dream of pipe dreams?

I can only speak for myself in this matter, a football season ticket holder, booster club member, road trip warrior, etc. To me, I'm not in favor of this AE Football unless we know for sure that Delaware is going FBS. As long as they stay FCS then the CAA would still have them, Towson, W&M, Richmond, Nova, UNH, Maine, JMU and I assume Stony Brook. If JMU leaves as I expect then you can add Albany. For all I know they may add two Southern teams to return to 12 and two divisions which would help travel. I have difficulty seeing this AE Football league gaining at large bids any time soon basically because I don't think the new schools will be at the level of current CAA teams for quite some time if ever. I also don't think UNH and Maine will be able to recruit at the same level they do today. The high quality of the CAA attracts recruits to UNH, our facilities sure don't. While we would still have a couple of games down in prime recruiting proximity in Monmouth and whatever MEAC school, that's not the same as playing Nova, UD, TU, JMU, UR and W&M. All the exposure and guarantee of a couple of games down there each year is a big factor in recruiting for UNH. (MJ, I know you don't agree with this but it's true for UNH, I've heard multitude of parents tell me how important it was. And I don't think it is a coincidence that Maine has recruited kids from MD these past couple of years.)

And from a UNH point of view don't forget that we've been playing football against Delaware since 1953, Towson since 1980, JMU since 1982, Richmond since 1986, Villanova since 1988, W&M since 1993. We've played CCSU six times and St. Francis PA once, We've never played Bryant, Monmouth, Delaware State, Morgan State, Howard, Robert Morris, Duquesne or Wagner! We don't play them in many other sports either. Sorry, but this just doesn't get me very excited.

There's an awful lot of questions to be answered before I think UNH, Maine and Stony Brook can take this seriously. For one, I have no faith in URI in terms of football. I really don't think they want to play at the full scholarship or counter status. If they did then I think they would have been more successful in earlier attempts to form a more northeastern league. (Ace, you need to stop blaming UNH for scuttling these efforts. URI has always wanted to downgrade football.) Then, I'm still not sure that Monmouth or Bryant want to increase scholarships. Living in CT, I'm not sure how CCSU funds it either. UNH, Maine and SBU leaving an AQ League for multiple years in a league without an AQ seems like a non starter to me. Unless this AE Football is the only alternative, I'll prefer to stay in the CAA for football. Now if our AE leadership and school presidents could recruit Delaware and Towson (perfect travel partner for UMBC) into the fold and we added CCSU and Monmouth, this would be a whole different discussion.

Regardless, I'd like to hear from others to see if they think it is an insurmountable task to have AE sponsor football. Any invite now that isn't a football school probably means more than 12 schools for basketball.

farfromtheshow · 06-17-2012, 10:26 AM

Hi All,
I would rather write an article encompassing the recent earthquake that has hit the America East... but I've been on a hiatus after spending a month and a half full-time editing my documentary, and now having just gotten married on Friday... While I will be back on the OBW grind full time a week from Monday, I figured I should come on here and say a few things in the few spare minutes I have right now before leaving on my honeymoon.

-First and Foremost, OBW will continue on. If BU (and the other school that appears to be leaving) remain in the America East for one more year - kind of a "last hurrah" before we have to prepare for life after the fallout:

-If the America East reverses course from their own precedent (They let NU compete in the AE Tournament 2005 when they were leaving the conference, and Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra and Towson compete in 2001) and BU bolts this year (and they also implement the same action against the 2nd AE team that looks like it is leaving) Then we will have to begin our "Life after the AE Breakup" plan a year early... That plan being: Expanding our coverage from solely the America East, to the Patriot League (for BU), the CAA (Northeastern, Delaware, Drexel, Towson, Hofstra... and probably 1 more

)... It's ambitious, and I'm not sure how in the world we will be able to pull it off without some sponsorship or generous donations, ad revenue... something to differ some of the cost of covering that many games, but that is our goal when the AE falls apart: To cover all of the teams we've come to love and the conferences they play in.

With that said, on to the "what has happened" so far:
-BU leaving: While BU did break down the academic credentials of various schools. Don't kid yourselves, this was not an academic move: This was a move SOLELY based on stability, and is an indictment (at least in BU's eyes) on the leadership, direction, and frankly, ability to stay above water of the America East Conference. BU wanted A-10: It wasn't happening. Depending on who you listen to, they either thought about the CAA and passed because of questions of the direction of the conference/stability, or thought they would be in the CAA and it fell through... Either way, they had every option to stay in the America East at the end of the day, and they felt that the conference was on Far too shaky ground.

My thoughts on it: In brief, very, very, very disappointed by the move because, obviously, I love the America East. I also fell that, if the America East ever truly harnessed its potential (from the Suny Schools, and other members) that it has a much, much higher ceiling than the Patriot League... But, with that said, I can't really blame BU's logic: The Patriot League has, in my opinion, a lower ceiling than the America East, but a much, much higher floor: It's bland, its a bit boring: no real rivalries. And Geographically, other than Holy Cross, BU is isolated. But the Patriot League isn't going anywhere: It is going to survive and continue on. The Same (and it really hurts me to say this) can't be said about the America East.

Everything that I have heard from behind closed doors is that the League has still not been very proactive in finding teams... the Quinnipiac isn't interested, that CCSU isn't going to happen (hope I'm wrong on both accounts) and that Men's BBall isn't a big priority among the league hierarchy. Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I did hear that the tone of the League Meeting among the AD's and League Offices was pretty much "status quo" and that was a bit before BU jumped ship... from what I've heard, the tone of the meetings was the straw that broke the Camel's Back.

**ball_of_rubber** · 06-17-2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

Everything that I have heard from behind closed doors is that the League has still not been very proactive in finding teams... the Quinnipiac isn't interested, that CCSU isn't going to happen (hope I'm wrong on both accounts) and that Men's BBall isn't a big priority among the league hierarchy. Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I did hear that the tone of the League Meeting among the AD's and League Offices was pretty much "status quo" and that was a bit before BU jumped ship... from what I've heard, the tone of the meetings was the straw that broke the Camel's Back.

First of all, congratulations on your marriage.

If what you're hearing is true, and like you, I hope it's not true, this league is truly f&@!*d! As in, over/under 5 years f&@!*d. Every school will be looking for it's exit plan in the next two years if they aren't already doing so. Speaking from a UMBC perspective, they need to make themselves more attractive than they do now with respect to on-field/court performance. Facilities are being upgraded, but the clock is ticking to avoid being frozen out of the next fallout.

TerrierNation · 06-17-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dane96

I've been holding back for awhile (read: Years) on re-alignment.

I've also held back on the move for BU. I've held back on NU and the CAA's direction. And I'v held back on the AE front office.

All my opinion:

3. If one more person discusses academics as a reason to move a conference I am going to KILL them. Literally, I may need character witnesses at my manslaughter trial to defend justified homicide. NONE OF THESE MOVES ARE ACADEMICALLY RELATED. NONE!!! Let me repeat that...NONE. Unless you are certain leagues, e.g. Patriot, IVY, the Little East, etc...it doesn't matter. If so, VANDY would have left the ACC, Stanford the Pac-whatever, etc. It's a joke people. Bringing me to my final point.

4. Conference re-alignment has its genesis in stability and/ or EGO to be affiliated with a "name league and/or a set of schools," and MONEY when it comes down to certain leagues with multi-bids, tv contracts and NCAA payouts. This is at EVERY level of DI (low, mid and high-major). It's about positioning yourself for the NEXT MOVE on the NEXT realignment. And much like financial market corrections...there will be a market correction on realignment in 3-5 years. The only legitimate thing I have heard about the BU move (and others) is conference stability. That said, BU created this instability in the AE twice (AE-4 and Hockey East/America East)...which is why I am bitter about this move.

In the end, even ego to be affiliated with name schools is a red-herring. I am sure everyone of us in the real world can appreciate that aside from about 50 schools...nobody cares where you went as long as you did the job, unless you are in a field where research was important. In the end, we all care about who can do the job. In fact, unless I ask I am totally turned off when someone struts (both socially and in a business setting) where they went to college. WHO CARES?! Rhetorical, as in alumni care. Other than that, if I ask or you offer...it's more likely to discuss the social setting and it does not act to impress me academically. Dummies go to good schools and smart people go to average schools.

That said, if this was a straight up "be with the Jones'" move for BU, YES, I'd say that this move makes sense because it appeases the IVORY TOWER types at BU. The Patriot IS one of those conferences you want to affiliate with, precisely why deep down in certain circles, the NU community are likely pissed off.

But this move doesn't accomplish some things: It doesn't help BU's debt problems; it won't help bring more students in to games (the school is heavily international and students are not all of a sudden coming out to watch BU vs. "the real" (PL-wise) BU. That's not the only problem with student-attendance (forget alumni and local support...that's never changing)-- You are still dealing with non-internationals that chose BU because of the urban setting, e.g. NYU. They could care less--generally speaking--about "rah-rah sis-boom-bah" college athletics / campus activities. They are here to go to school, meet a broad base of people, and go out in an urban setting. This isn't your traditional college experience.

And the big thing this doesn't help? YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE JOE JONES', Chambers, Rick Pitino's, etc. anymore to coach. You will get very good hoop coaches...but with the AI...forget it...you are not getting top-tier young coaches. Too much to deal with. BU has some academically great kids it is recruiting now...and they will hold a recruiting advantage because of the Agganis and the city of Boston's environs, but they will not be able to get in some other players. And anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves. They definitely are recruiting in a different pool now...a much smaller pool that has about 40-45 schools in in it (IVY, Patriot, and one-off schools in certain leagues like the CAA e.g. William and Mary, Big South's Davidson, etc.).

That is NOT attractive to a coach.

Sorry for the rant...been holding it in and it is more than just about BU...it's about realignment in general. Sorry for the English and spelling...hung over royally.

Disagree with a bunch of this.

First and foremost, academics do matter, although they are not overriding. At higher levels and when serious money is involved, sure, they don't tip the scales. But its something BU has felt about the AE for a long time. I know that for a fact. And conference realignment is never about one issue...it's a multitude and the academics are one piece of the puzzle. If you don't believe that it was at least a part (maybe small) of BU's motivation you are fooling yourself.

As OBW pointed out, stability was a huge part of this. Probably the biggest part of all of this.

I will admit that the AI is the only thing that concerns me. But basketball and others sports in the Patriot League are currently better than the AE. Why is BU incapable of the success of Lehigh and Bucknell under an academic index system? They've had more success than AE schools in recent years and Holy Cross is several years removed from being pretty effective too. You make it sound as if Joe Jones was hottest thing on the coaching market and he is scoring JUCO players or something. I just don't buy that coaches will not want to coach at BU. If BU can replicate the success of the above mentioned schools, its better than what they've done in the AE in the last 10 years.

This has nothing to do with international students or attendance or any of the other issues surrounding BU's athletic program. The AE wasn't going to light the student base on fire and neither is the PL. Heck, I question whether the A10 would in some ways. I believe BU still wants to compete in an A10/CAA type of league someday, but that isn't likely until the BE implodes. Until then, the Patriot League is a better and more stable place than the AE.

NU Hoop Fan · 06-17-2012, 01:42 PM

Dane - I'm in Manhattan Mon-Wed this week - maybe Thursday night we can grab drinks. I believe it's your turn to buy.

As for the Southern direction of the CAA, we could have rejoined the AE (and still probably could) any moment before the $1 million exit fee went into place (and I think it goes in to place on July 1) - so if we wanted to leave the CAA and didn't like the direction - we could leave.

Our President firmly believes in "you are judged by the company you keep" and as long as we're with WM, and DU and UD, and maybe now Davidson, and BU isn't in the AE any more, the AE does nothing for him. He's an internationally focused guy, and in his mind (I believe) that the schools in the CAA (and academically, I'm highly bullish on GMU and JMU) give NU more cache' than Maine, Vermont, Hartford and the SUNYS.

Are we going to do back flips over trips to Boone or Elon - nope. But we weren't jazzed about Orono or Binghamton either. The costs to compete are long embedded in our budgets, so we're not clamoring to get out for cost reasons.

And I truly think the CAA will go to 14 teams, so we could have a 7 team northern tier. Which would be fine by me.

UNHFan · 06-17-2012, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

Hi All,

Everything that I have heard from behind closed doors is that the League has still not been very proactive in finding teams... the Quinnipiac isn't interested, that CCSU isn't going to happen (hope I'm wrong on both accounts) and that Men's BBall isn't a big priority among the league hierarchy. Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I did hear that the tone of the League Meeting among the AD's and League Offices was pretty much "status quo" and that was a bit before BU jumped ship... from what I've heard, the tone of the meetings was the straw that broke the Camel's Back.

Sam congrats on the marriage! I have great respect for you as a fan and journalist of the Aeast but god I hope your wrong on this one

If your correct which you probably are what is the deal with the leaders of these schools? I don't get how they didn't see this coming and why they are not moving quickly. I'm in shock.

Aceinthehole · 06-17-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNH_Alum_In_CT

I can only speak for myself in this matter, a football season ticket holder, booster club member, road trip warrior, etc. To me, I'm not in favor of this AE Football unless we know for sure that Delaware is going FBS. As long as they stay FCS then the CAA would still have them, Towson, W&M, Richmond, Nova, UNH, Maine, JMU and I assume Stony Brook.
...
And from a UNH point of view don't forget that we've been playing football against Delaware since 1953, Towson since 1980, JMU since 1982, Richmond since 1986, Villanova since 1988, W&M since 1993. We've played CCSU six times and St. Francis PA once, We've never played Bryant, Monmouth, Delaware State, Morgan State, Howard, Robert Morris, Duquesne or Wagner! We don't play them in many other sports either. Sorry, but this just doesn't get me very excited.
...
(Ace, you need to stop blaming UNH for scuttling these efforts. URI has always wanted to downgrade football.)
...
Regardless, I'd like to hear from others to see if they think it is an insurmountable task to have AE sponsor football. Any invite now that isn't a football school probably means more than 12 schools for basketball.

AE football isn't happening for all the reasons you stated. Your opinion, is basically shared by the UNH administration. Almost everyone who has talked to an AE source has been told "off the record" that UNH is one of the biggest opponents of AE football, not just BU or Hartford. URI was willing to stay at 63 schollys if they could get UNH and Maine to commit to a Northeast based league - they did not like the direction or competition in the CAA.

Listen, I get the reason and yes from UNH perspective, they are 100% right. Staying in the CAA for football is their best move, period. Just like Hockeyt East is the best conference for your hockey team.

I'm not trying to suggest otherwise, but the bigger point here is that the existing schools have different priorities and interests (just like the CAA or Big East schools). No one in the AE is going to sacrifice their best interest for the league.

I'm not sure any AE school has a plan to save the league, and so this will just be the "best option available" for every school until a better option become available.

Urban Barrister · 06-17-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

. . . from what I've heard, the tone of the meetings was the straw that broke the Camel's Back.

They've killed every effort the league made over the past 10 years to improve itself, and now you're saying they've left because of the league's inaction?

i'm gonna call BS on that one. I'm sorry, but BU can't have it both ways.

farfromtheshow · 06-17-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Barrister

They've killed every effort the league made over the past 10 years to improve itself, and now you're saying they've left because of the league's inaction?

i'm gonna call BS on that one. I'm sorry, but BU can't have it both ways.

Look, I don't have time to get into a debate on this right now, you can take it how you would like it, BUT my track record on these things has been pretty darn good when it comes to inside info.

-First: I have ZERO reason to be a propagandist for Boston University regarding this. BU leaving the conference really strikes a nerve with me, and really, really, really makes continuing running my website a LOT more challenging/potentially financially impossible for me. I'm not happy about the move, or happy with BU. So I'm not going to just regurgitate the company line from BU. I'm going to think this through, look at the info at hand, and go to a lot of outside sources.

-Second: The reports on the league meetings I have received came from THREE different sources high up in the athletic departments of THREE different Schools, NONE of which were BU... All three implied that at the League meetings, there was NOT much of an emphasis on expanding the conference and that it was still a "wait and see/preserve the status quo" stance.

-Thirdly, It was also STRONGLY indicated that growing Men's Basketball was not high on the priorities list. This came from those same three different sources who are not connected with BU, but with other member institutions.

-Finally: While BU has certainly gone its own way, and been a road block for many initiatives, from everything I have heard, they would have liked to have stayed, and would have stayed, if they felt like the league had a clear direction/mission objective and was on a solid foundation... I have heard SERIOUS rumblings from others throughout the conference that the league is on very shaky ground... And, opposing previous initiatives or not, BU's goal has always been a HIGHER LEVEL move. Moving to the Patriot League seriously dampens such a move anytime in the forseable future. the PL was not BU's goal, and they would have rather stayed in a stable AE longer and then attempted a higher level jump. Everything I have been told has been that in their eyes, they could no longer afford to wait because they feel like an imminent and significant fall is on the horizon for the league.

Once again, I seriously, seriously hope this is an incorrect assessment, but its what I'm hearing from a LOT of people.

Also, if another school (read "flagship program") does leave the AE, I think it will be safe to say that the league is in full-fledged free-fall mode. I really, really hope this is not the case. I hope the AE as schools lined up and will be making an announcement soon... but, frankly, if they don't, are you going to keep blaming BU, or are you going to take a step back and look around and perhaps see that it appears to be a rudderless ship where Men's BBall isn't a priority, and the various league presidents and AD's can't seem to get out of their own way?

I have yet to see or hear any sort of a vision for this conference moving forward dating far back before BU ever left.

Aceinthehole · 06-17-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

Everything that I have heard from behind closed doors is that the League has still not been very proactive in finding teams... the Quinnipiac isn't interested, that CCSU isn't going to happen (hope I'm wrong on both accounts) and that Men's BBall isn't a big priority among the league hierarchy. Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I did hear that the tone of the League Meeting among the AD's and League Offices was pretty much "status quo" and that was a bit before BU jumped ship... from what I've heard, the tone of the meetings was the straw that broke the Camel's Back.

That is very well possible, and here is worse news: if the AE loses SBU and doesn't get QU specifically the league is officially done. They would lose the AQ in Baseball, Softball, men's and women's Lax, and Field Hockey - all sports that QU sponsors.

The AE can't just add 1 team beacuse the membership is so tenious. You need to get 3 or more schools to give some stability. The league is in such a hole right now, the NEC schools may just sit this round out.

It is certainly possible that QU is looking at this situation and thinking they could wind up in a better conference at the next realignment if they just stay in the NEC and actually win something. Without BU, I don't know if the public schools are ideal peers of QU. Maybe they try to wait it out for a future Patriot League invite.

CCSU, Bryant, and Monmouth need a home for football, so the AE option is not a done deal at all. They just can't leave the NEC without taking care of football.

I wish the beat reporters in Albany, Durham, Orono, and Binghamton would do some digging and report what they are hearing regarding this issue.

Aceinthehole · 06-17-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

The reports on the league meetings I have received came from THREE different sources high up in the athletic departments of THREE different Schools, NONE of which were BU... All three implied that at the League meetings, there was NOT much of an emphasis on expanding the conference and that it was still a "wait and see/preserve the status quo" stance.

Also, if another school (read "flagship program") does leave the AE, I think it will be safe to say that the league is in full-fledged free-fall mode. I really, really hope this is not the case. I hope the AE as schools lined up and will be making an announcement soon... but, frankly, if they don't, are you going to keep blaming BU, or are you going to take a step back and look around and perhaps see that it appears to be a rudderless ship where Men's BBall isn't a priority, and the various league presidents and AD's can't seem to get out of their own way?

I have yet to see or hear any sort of a vision for this conference moving forward dating far back before BU ever left.

FFTS - I think everyone would love to read more about this from you without reveling sources or naming names.

But I have 1 easy question - if Men's hoop isn't the priority, what is?

The league doesn't sponsor football or ice hockey, it has just 6 baseball and men's lax schools. What the hell does the league’s ADs care about?

UNHFan · 06-17-2012, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceinthehole

That is very well possible, and here is worse news: if the AE loses SBU and doesn't get QU specifically the league is officially done. They would lose the AQ in Baseball, Softball, men's and women's Lax, and Field Hockey - all sports that QU sponsors.

The AE can't just add 1 team beacuse the membership is so tenious. You need to get 3 or more schools to give some stability. The league is in such a hole right now, the NEC schools may just sit this round out.

It is certainly possible that QU is looking at this situation and thinking they could wind up in a better conference at the next realignment if they just stay in the NEC and actually win something. Without BU, I don't know if the public schools are ideal peers of QU. Maybe they try to wait it out for a future Patriot League invite.

CCSU, Bryant, and Monmouth need a home for football, so the AE option is not a done deal at all. They just can't leave the NEC without taking care of football.

I wish the beat reporters in Albany, Durham, Orono, and Binghamton would do some digging and report what they are hearing regarding this issue.

I'm hoping Allen Lessel will have an article in tomorrow's Union Leader. I will post any information that I read and can find from the NH papers!

Urban Barrister · 06-17-2012, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

Look, I don't have time to get into a debate on this right now, you can take it how you would like it, BUT my track record on these things has been pretty darn good when it comes to inside info.

-First: I have ZERO reason to be a propagandist for Boston University regarding this. BU leaving the conference really strikes a nerve with me, and really, really, really makes continuing running my website a LOT more challenging/potentially financially impossible for me. I'm not happy about the move, or happy with BU. So I'm not going to just regurgitate the company line from BU. I'm going to think this through, look at the info at hand, and go to a lot of outside sources.

-Second: The reports on the league meetings I have received came from THREE different sources high up in the athletic departments of THREE different Schools, NONE of which were BU... All three implied that at the League meetings, there was NOT much of an emphasis on expanding the conference and that it was still a "wait and see/preserve the status quo" stance.

-Thirdly, It was also STRONGLY indicated that growing Men's Basketball was not high on the priorities list. This came from those same three different sources who are not connected with BU, but with other member institutions.

-Finally: While BU has certainly gone its own way, and been a road block for many initiatives, from everything I have heard, they would have liked to have stayed, and would have stayed, if they felt like the league had a clear direction/mission objective and was on a solid foundation... I have heard SERIOUS rumblings from others throughout the conference that the league is on very shaky ground... And, opposing previous initiatives or not, BU's goal has always been a HIGHER LEVEL move. Moving to the Patriot League seriously dampens such a move anytime in the forseable future. the PL was not BU's goal, and they would have rather stayed in a stable AE longer and then attempted a higher level jump. Everything I have been told has been that in their eyes, they could no longer afford to wait because they feel like an imminent and significant fall is on the horizon for the league.

Once again, I seriously, seriously hope this is an incorrect assessment, but its what I'm hearing from a LOT of people.

Also, if another school (read "flagship program") does leave the AE, I think it will be safe to say that the league is in full-fledged free-fall mode. I really, really hope this is not the case. I hope the AE as schools lined up and will be making an announcement soon... but, frankly, if they don't, are you going to keep blaming BU, or are you going to take a step back and look around and perhaps see that it appears to be a rudderless ship where Men's BBall isn't a priority, and the various league presidents and AD's can't seem to get out of their own way?

I have yet to see or hear any sort of a vision for this conference moving forward dating far back before BU ever left.

Sam: I'm so sorry. I wasn't calling BS on you. I was calling it on BU! I completely believe you. I just can't believe BU's admin would be so duplicitous.

Congrats on the wedding - and sorry for the confusion about my post.

UB

06-17-2012, 09:31 AM	#108 (permalink)
UNH_Alum_In_CT Veteran Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,764 Rep Power: 2007	Re: Boston University to Patriot League Official With BU gone and AE down to eight schools, this could be an opportunity to start AE Football. You could add four football schools to get to eight for football and twelve for basketball. Then invite URI as an affiliate and you have the perfect nine for a balanced four home and four away league schedule. Personally, I think this such football league would have to be nine schools because it's going to be difficult scheduling quality OOC games going forward and for every team less than nine it becomes exponentially more difficult. There'll be no home and home series with Delaware, Villanova, JMU, W&M, Richmond and probably even Towson going forward. There's no guarantee that the OOC will be as easy as an Ivy, a Patriot and a FBS school. And to avoid future problems it would be beneficial to have more than the required six for an AQ be all sports members.I don't want to be like the Patriot with only five all sports members playing football and have my AQ dependent on affiliates. For argument sake, let's say AE invites CCSU, Bryant, Monmouth (UNHFan's NJ school) and Delaware State (for MJ and to give UMBC somewhat of a travel partner (Morgan State or Howard would probably be better from the travel point of view)). AE Football would then be Maine, UNH, Albany, Stony Brook, CCSU, Monmouth, Bryant, Del State/Morgan State/Howard and URI. Would UVM, UHart, Bing and UMBC approve this expansion knowing it could pass over better basketball options? Is this football league strong enough to entice Maine and UNH to leave the CAA where multiple at large bids are usually available because of the strength of the league? Is this league strong enough for Stony Brook to cast its lot or will they still prefer CAA Football or even stay in the Big South? Would AE consider going to 14 schools to also get a couple of additions to please the non football schools? Are CCSU, Bryant and Monmouth willing and capable of increasing their scholarships to at least the FBS counter level? Will URI return to at least counter status? How many years will it take for this AE Football League to get an AQ to the FCS Playoffs? Will Delaware really move up to FBS? I assume JMU will. To me, the future of CAA Football hinges on Delaware because that will keep Towson, Richmond and William & Mary on board. Does anyone think that getting Delaware and Towson to return knowing there will be football isn't the pipe dream of pipe dreams? I can only speak for myself in this matter, a football season ticket holder, booster club member, road trip warrior, etc. To me, I'm not in favor of this AE Football unless we know for sure that Delaware is going FBS. As long as they stay FCS then the CAA would still have them, Towson, W&M, Richmond, Nova, UNH, Maine, JMU and I assume Stony Brook. If JMU leaves as I expect then you can add Albany. For all I know they may add two Southern teams to return to 12 and two divisions which would help travel. I have difficulty seeing this AE Football league gaining at large bids any time soon basically because I don't think the new schools will be at the level of current CAA teams for quite some time if ever. I also don't think UNH and Maine will be able to recruit at the same level they do today. The high quality of the CAA attracts recruits to UNH, our facilities sure don't. While we would still have a couple of games down in prime recruiting proximity in Monmouth and whatever MEAC school, that's not the same as playing Nova, UD, TU, JMU, UR and W&M. All the exposure and guarantee of a couple of games down there each year is a big factor in recruiting for UNH. (MJ, I know you don't agree with this but it's true for UNH, I've heard multitude of parents tell me how important it was. And I don't think it is a coincidence that Maine has recruited kids from MD these past couple of years.) And from a UNH point of view don't forget that we've been playing football against Delaware since 1953, Towson since 1980, JMU since 1982, Richmond since 1986, Villanova since 1988, W&M since 1993. We've played CCSU six times and St. Francis PA once, We've never played Bryant, Monmouth, Delaware State, Morgan State, Howard, Robert Morris, Duquesne or Wagner! We don't play them in many other sports either. Sorry, but this just doesn't get me very excited. There's an awful lot of questions to be answered before I think UNH, Maine and Stony Brook can take this seriously. For one, I have no faith in URI in terms of football. I really don't think they want to play at the full scholarship or counter status. If they did then I think they would have been more successful in earlier attempts to form a more northeastern league. (Ace, you need to stop blaming UNH for scuttling these efforts. URI has always wanted to downgrade football.) Then, I'm still not sure that Monmouth or Bryant want to increase scholarships. Living in CT, I'm not sure how CCSU funds it either. UNH, Maine and SBU leaving an AQ League for multiple years in a league without an AQ seems like a non starter to me. Unless this AE Football is the only alternative, I'll prefer to stay in the CAA for football. Now if our AE leadership and school presidents could recruit Delaware and Towson (perfect travel partner for UMBC) into the fold and we added CCSU and Monmouth, this would be a whole different discussion. Regardless, I'd like to hear from others to see if they think it is an insurmountable task to have AE sponsor football. Any invite now that isn't a football school probably means more than 12 schools for basketball.

06-17-2012, 10:26 AM	#109 (permalink)
farfromtheshow Veteran Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,163 Rep Power: 8187	Re: Boston University to Patriot League Official Hi All, I would rather write an article encompassing the recent earthquake that has hit the America East... but I've been on a hiatus after spending a month and a half full-time editing my documentary, and now having just gotten married on Friday... While I will be back on the OBW grind full time a week from Monday, I figured I should come on here and say a few things in the few spare minutes I have right now before leaving on my honeymoon. -First and Foremost, OBW will continue on. If BU (and the other school that appears to be leaving) remain in the America East for one more year - kind of a "last hurrah" before we have to prepare for life after the fallout: -If the America East reverses course from their own precedent (They let NU compete in the AE Tournament 2005 when they were leaving the conference, and Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra and Towson compete in 2001) and BU bolts this year (and they also implement the same action against the 2nd AE team that looks like it is leaving) Then we will have to begin our "Life after the AE Breakup" plan a year early... That plan being: Expanding our coverage from solely the America East, to the Patriot League (for BU), the CAA (Northeastern, Delaware, Drexel, Towson, Hofstra... and probably 1 more )... It's ambitious, and I'm not sure how in the world we will be able to pull it off without some sponsorship or generous donations, ad revenue... something to differ some of the cost of covering that many games, but that is our goal when the AE falls apart: To cover all of the teams we've come to love and the conferences they play in. With that said, on to the "what has happened" so far: -BU leaving: While BU did break down the academic credentials of various schools. Don't kid yourselves, this was not an academic move: This was a move SOLELY based on stability, and is an indictment (at least in BU's eyes) on the leadership, direction, and frankly, ability to stay above water of the America East Conference. BU wanted A-10: It wasn't happening. Depending on who you listen to, they either thought about the CAA and passed because of questions of the direction of the conference/stability, or thought they would be in the CAA and it fell through... Either way, they had every option to stay in the America East at the end of the day, and they felt that the conference was on Far too shaky ground. My thoughts on it: In brief, very, very, very disappointed by the move because, obviously, I love the America East. I also fell that, if the America East ever truly harnessed its potential (from the Suny Schools, and other members) that it has a much, much higher ceiling than the Patriot League... But, with that said, I can't really blame BU's logic: The Patriot League has, in my opinion, a lower ceiling than the America East, but a much, much higher floor: It's bland, its a bit boring: no real rivalries. And Geographically, other than Holy Cross, BU is isolated. But the Patriot League isn't going anywhere: It is going to survive and continue on. The Same (and it really hurts me to say this) can't be said about the America East. Everything that I have heard from behind closed doors is that the League has still not been very proactive in finding teams... the Quinnipiac isn't interested, that CCSU isn't going to happen (hope I'm wrong on both accounts) and that Men's BBall isn't a big priority among the league hierarchy. Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I did hear that the tone of the League Meeting among the AD's and League Offices was pretty much "status quo" and that was a bit before BU jumped ship... from what I've heard, the tone of the meetings was the straw that broke the Camel's Back.

06-17-2012, 01:42 PM	#112 (permalink)
NU Hoop Fan All-Star Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 5,083 Rep Power: 32212	Re: Boston University to Patriot League Official Dane - I'm in Manhattan Mon-Wed this week - maybe Thursday night we can grab drinks. I believe it's your turn to buy. As for the Southern direction of the CAA, we could have rejoined the AE (and still probably could) any moment before the $1 million exit fee went into place (and I think it goes in to place on July 1) - so if we wanted to leave the CAA and didn't like the direction - we could leave. Our President firmly believes in "you are judged by the company you keep" and as long as we're with WM, and DU and UD, and maybe now Davidson, and BU isn't in the AE any more, the AE does nothing for him. He's an internationally focused guy, and in his mind (I believe) that the schools in the CAA (and academically, I'm highly bullish on GMU and JMU) give NU more cache' than Maine, Vermont, Hartford and the SUNYS. Are we going to do back flips over trips to Boone or Elon - nope. But we weren't jazzed about Orono or Binghamton either. The costs to compete are long embedded in our budgets, so we're not clamoring to get out for cost reasons. And I truly think the CAA will go to 14 teams, so we could have a 7 team northern tier. Which would be fine by me. __________________ Today is the first day of the next 86 years!

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