Boston University to Patriot League Official - Page 9 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

Salz · 06-17-2012, 05:58 PM

I'll miss the BU fans posting here. Hope the Patriot League board is as interesting as this one for your guys sakes, heh.

bosiydid · 06-17-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

Look, I don't have time to get into a debate on this right now, you can take it how you would like it, BUT my track record on these things has been pretty darn good when it comes to inside info.

-First: I have ZERO reason to be a propagandist for Boston University regarding this. BU leaving the conference really strikes a nerve with me, and really, really, really makes continuing running my website a LOT more challenging/potentially financially impossible for me. I'm not happy about the move, or happy with BU. So I'm not going to just regurgitate the company line from BU. I'm going to think this through, look at the info at hand, and go to a lot of outside sources.

-Second: The reports on the league meetings I have received came from THREE different sources high up in the athletic departments of THREE different Schools, NONE of which were BU... All three implied that at the League meetings, there was NOT much of an emphasis on expanding the conference and that it was still a "wait and see/preserve the status quo" stance.

-Thirdly, It was also STRONGLY indicated that growing Men's Basketball was not high on the priorities list. This came from those same three different sources who are not connected with BU, but with other member institutions.

-Finally: While BU has certainly gone its own way, and been a road block for many initiatives, from everything I have heard, they would have liked to have stayed, and would have stayed, if they felt like the league had a clear direction/mission objective and was on a solid foundation... I have heard SERIOUS rumblings from others throughout the conference that the league is on very shaky ground... And, opposing previous initiatives or not, BU's goal has always been a HIGHER LEVEL move. Moving to the Patriot League seriously dampens such a move anytime in the forseable future. the PL was not BU's goal, and they would have rather stayed in a stable AE longer and then attempted a higher level jump. Everything I have been told has been that in their eyes, they could no longer afford to wait because they feel like an imminent and significant fall is on the horizon for the league.

Once again, I seriously, seriously hope this is an incorrect assessment, but its what I'm hearing from a LOT of people.

Also, if another school (read "flagship program") does leave the AE, I think it will be safe to say that the league is in full-fledged free-fall mode. I really, really hope this is not the case. I hope the AE as schools lined up and will be making an announcement soon... but, frankly, if they don't, are you going to keep blaming BU, or are you going to take a step back and look around and perhaps see that it appears to be a rudderless ship where Men's BBall isn't a priority, and the various league presidents and AD's can't seem to get out of their own way?

I have yet to see or hear any sort of a vision for this conference moving forward dating far back before BU ever left.

You don't have to have sources to see what you are saying...what is the plan for this league. We have a commissioner that is basically invisible unless she is tweeting congratulations out to teams in various sports. How about she put the pom-poms down and lead this league?

If basketball isn't a priority what is? And we wonder why the basketball in this league has fallen to the disgusting level that it has. No vision, no plan...just sit around. If Nero is smart and the opportunity presents itself he'd get SBU out...I wish UA has an AD who had a backbone and a vision.

What is the priority if not basketball? Field hockey?

mainejeff · 06-18-2012, 05:42 AM

But why is it like this??? Who are the ADs and Presidents in this league??? Why aren't long time members Maine, UNH, and Vermont asserting themselves more??? They've been through the ringer more than anyone. You'd think that the leaders of those schools would have learned from experience.........although none have been in those positions long enough to get a real sense of historical change that has taken place. You'd think at some point that they'd start smelling their armpits though now that something like 15 schools have left the league over the past 3 decades.

UNHFan · 06-18-2012, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

Also, if another school (read "flagship program") does leave the AE, I think it will be safe to say that the league is in full-fledged free-fall mode. I really, really hope this is not the case. I hope the AE as schools lined up and will be making an announcement soon... but, frankly, if they don't, are you going to keep blaming BU, or are you going to take a step back and look around and perhaps see that it appears to be a rudderless ship where Men's BBall isn't a priority, and the various league presidents and AD's can't seem to get out of their own way?

I have yet to see or hear any sort of a vision for this conference moving forward dating far back before BU ever left.

Wow! Flagship leaving! If that is true it would mean one of three schools...UNH, Vermont or Maine. This is going to get very interesting!

bosiydid · 06-18-2012, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

Wow! Flagship leaving! If that is true it would mean one of three schools...UNH, Vermont or Maine. This is going to get very interesting!

I'm pretty sure he's referencing SBU...not sure how UNH or Maine can be considered "flagship" AE programs.

VT Cats Fan · 06-18-2012, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainejeff

But why is it like this??? Who are the ADs and Presidents in this league??? Why aren't long time members Maine, UNH, and Vermont asserting themselves more??? They've been through the ringer more than anyone. You'd think that the leaders of those schools would have learned from experience.........although none have been in those positions long enough to get a real sense of historical change that has taken place. You'd think at some point that they'd start smelling their armpits though now that something like 15 schools have left the league over the past 3 decades.

I have zero direct knowledge of how the Vermont administration feels about the changes in the conference, but what is their impetus to want change? As long as the conference can retain it's autobid, doesn't it make a perennially competitive team's path easier to the NCAA tournament with one or two less strong teams? I'm pretty sure most of the schools in the conference still place academics as the main priority. Basketball is pretty low on the priority list for most of the schools. (UVM, UNH, Maine, Albany, UMBC) At UVM, hockey is still the engine that drives the bus. At the other schools, it's either hockey, football or both. I certainly don't see that changing. Someone mentioned about UVM needing to move...why? where whould we go? It still seems to me that the AE is the best fit with institutions that have the most in common. BU was kind of always the odd ball.

There's been a lot of discussion about the conference needing to be proactive about getting new members. I'm not really sure how you do that. We all know many conferences are in a state of flux, so what do you do? Start running around to anyone who will listen to you and say, if this, this and this happens, we'll have a spot for you. That seems pretty immature and unprofessional if you ask me. I think you kind of have to let the chips fall and then be in a position to pick up the one(s) that are a good fit for who we are. Institutions do not do anything quickly and reactively. They just cannot. So what if we play a year without BU and possibly SBU? What's the big deal? I'd rather she take her time and find the right team(s) to come to our conference for the right reasons, not just to get numbers.

Aceinthehole · 06-18-2012, 06:41 AM

Good question MJ. Even more recently the trend is disturbing.

Since 2001, the AE has lost 6 schools to other conferences - 5 to the CAA and 1 to Patriot.

On the other side of the ledger, the AE has added just 4 school - 3 SUNY D-I start ups and 1 from the NEC.

It has been said before. If the 3 SUNYs did not fall into the lap of the AE, what would they have done? At this point, the 3 SUNYs are the "core" of the league, and the "old guard" of Maine, UNH, and UVM are the ones that aren't doing enough to help the conference. If there is anyone to blame for the current condition of the AE, I would look to the Northern New England flagships.

From UConn, to URI, to UMass, now possibly to the SUNYs - the remaining New England flagships universities have been left behind athletically by former conference mates. I do think the State's demographics and budget is a huge part of the reason for this decline ("graying" States with limited tax bases for public universities), however those ADs and Presidents must take some responsibility for the current situation.

Look at the last 4 teams in the AE's Commissioners Cup:
2012: Maine, Hartford, UVM, UNH
2011: UVM, Hartford, Maine, UNH
2010: Hartford, UVM, Maine, UMBC
2009: Hartford, Maine, UMBC, UVM
2008: Maine, Hartford, UVM, UNH/SBU
2007: Hartford, Maine, UNH, SBU

Hartford, Maine, and UVM have finished in the bottom 4 for at least the last 5 years.

I know that many of these schools sponsor successfull teams outside of the AE, such as hockey or golf. Additionally, no one is questioning the academic quality of athletes at Maine, UHa, UVM or UNH. This is just some food for thought ... I'm just raising this for further discussion.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 06-18-2012, 06:45 AM

BU leaving the AE is an impact on the conference- it was a team that typically you knew was always going to finish Top 4 and bring in good talent. This will certainly impact recruiting when it comes to selling the conference. BU is definitely one of the schools you would highlight when discussing the conference.

As for what Vermont does, I don't see us aggressively looking to change conferences as long as the league retains an autobid. Let's say the conference loses BU and SBU- it won't be like when the conference lost Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern and Towson.

mainejeff · 06-18-2012, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceinthehole

I know that many of these schools sponsor successfull teams outside of the AE, such as hockey or golf. Additionally, no one is questioning the academic quality of athletes at UVM or UNH. This is just some food for thought ... I'm just raising this for further discussion.

Are they questioning the academic quality of athletes at Maine or Hartford??? I am SO sick of Maine getting an academic bum wrap!!!! Maybe a decade or more ago, a case could be made........but Maine has drastically improved its academic image and quality......especially concerning its student-athletes. Not sure where people get off constantly downing Maine's academics. As far as I know......Maine's never had APR issues either while multiple teams in the CAA do..........

Aceinthehole · 06-18-2012, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainejeff

Are they questioning the academic quality of athletes at Maine or Hartford??? I am SO sick of Maine getting an academic bum wrap!!!! Maybe a decade or more ago, a case could be made........but Maine has drastically improved its academic image and quality......especially concerning its student-athletes. Not sure where people get off constantly downing Maine's academics. As far as I know......Maine's never had APR issues either while multiple teams in the CAA do..........

No, I didn't mean that at all. Sorry I should have listed all the AE schools

The academics are not an issue anywhere. But we aren't talking about the quiz bowl, we are discussing D-I athletic conference.

My bigger point was those 4 schools may have great athletic programs and excellent student-athletes, but they focus on sports outside of the AE - football, hoickey, golf, etc. That is a problem if you are trying to rebuild a well-rounded athletic conference.

Boston U had excellent students as well, but they dominated AE sports. Maine may have great students too, but their athletic department isn't winning or fucusing on AE-sponsored sports.

mainejeff · 06-18-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

BU leaving the AE is an impact on the conference- it was a team that typically you knew was always going to finish Top 4 and bring in good talent. This will certainly impact recruiting when it comes to selling the conference. BU is definitely one of the schools you would highlight when discussing the conference.

As for what Vermont does, I don't see us aggressively looking to change conferences as long as the league retains an autobid. Let's say the conference loses BU and SBU- it won't be like when the conference lost Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern and Towson.

Seriously??? If Stony Brook leaves........the conference situation becomes VERY tenuous. As more programs leave, the league's ability to attract new members suffers. If Stony Brook leaves the league loses automatic bids in multiple sports........not that I expect a Vermont fan to be concerned since UVM doesn't sponsor many of those sports. I'm wondering what Vermont will do if the league loses SB, Albany, UNH and Maine???? Vermont fans are the Delaware fans of AE. Brave faces as Rome burns all around them. I don't see Vermont getting an invite to the Patriot........and I also don't see them wanting association with the NEC.......????

BingGrad · 06-18-2012, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainejeff

Are they questioning the academic quality of athletes at Maine or Hartford??? I am SO sick of Maine getting an academic bum wrap!!!! Maybe a decade or more ago, a case could be made........but Maine has drastically improved its academic image and quality......especially concerning its student-athletes. Not sure where people get off constantly downing Maine's academics. As far as I know......Maine's never had APR issues either while multiple teams in the CAA do..........

IINM, the bottom 4 teams in the AE Commissioner's Cup all finished in the top 5 of the AE Academic Cup. Binghamton was the only school to finish in the top 5 for each -- we were 4th in one and 5th in the other (so it isn't like we were head and shoulders above anyone -- just pretty much squarely in the middle...).

I think the thing that makes Maine less attractive to other conferences is the location and questions about the level of commitment to sports other than Hockey and Football.

Also -- I'll be very surprised if we don't see an invitation to NJIT go out in the next few days. All prior discussion about commitment levels aside, AE needs to stop the bleeding and NJIT has already printed out and signed their acceptance letter.

mainejeff · 06-18-2012, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BingGrad

I think the thing that makes Maine less attractive to other conferences is the location and questions about the level of commitment to sports other than Hockey and Football.

I certainly agree with that! That is it in a nutshell. If UMaine were in Portland.........we'd probably be CAA bound along with UNH.

UNHFan · 06-18-2012, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bosiydid

I'm pretty sure he's referencing SBU...not sure how UNH or Maine can be considered "flagship" AE programs.

I guess I misunderstood. I took "flagship" to mean the longest serving members of the league. I don't get how this Commish can stay in her job if we do not add any other schools to the league and possibly lose two. This is a disgrace!

Aceinthehole · 06-18-2012, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BingGrad

Also -- I'll be very surprised if we don't see an invitation to NJIT go out in the next few days. All prior discussion about commitment levels aside, AE needs to stop the bleeding and NJIT has already printed out and signed their acceptance letter.

But what does NJIT bring other than a luke-warm body in basketball and 2 decent soccer teams?

They don't sponsor sports where the AE needs teams to maintain an AQ. NJIT does not play Men's or Women's Lax, Softball, or Field Hockey.

As a CCSU fan I hate to say it, but you actually need Quinnipiac, Bryant, or Monmouth more than they need you at this point.

06-17-2012, 05:58 PM	#121 (permalink)
Salz 6th Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rego Park, NY Age: 27 Posts: 360 Rep Power: 207	Re: Boston University to Patriot League Official I'll miss the BU fans posting here. Hope the Patriot League board is as interesting as this one for your guys sakes, heh.

06-18-2012, 05:42 AM	#123 (permalink)
mainejeff All-Star Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 7,250 Rep Power: 37820	Re: Boston University to Patriot League Official But why is it like this??? Who are the ADs and Presidents in this league??? Why aren't long time members Maine, UNH, and Vermont asserting themselves more??? They've been through the ringer more than anyone. You'd think that the leaders of those schools would have learned from experience.........although none have been in those positions long enough to get a real sense of historical change that has taken place. You'd think at some point that they'd start smelling their armpits though now that something like 15 schools have left the league over the past 3 decades.

06-18-2012, 06:41 AM	#127 (permalink)
Aceinthehole Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,545 Rep Power: 8611	Re: Boston University to Patriot League Official Good question MJ. Even more recently the trend is disturbing. Since 2001, the AE has lost 6 schools to other conferences - 5 to the CAA and 1 to Patriot. On the other side of the ledger, the AE has added just 4 school - 3 SUNY D-I start ups and 1 from the NEC. It has been said before. If the 3 SUNYs did not fall into the lap of the AE, what would they have done? At this point, the 3 SUNYs are the "core" of the league, and the "old guard" of Maine, UNH, and UVM are the ones that aren't doing enough to help the conference. If there is anyone to blame for the current condition of the AE, I would look to the Northern New England flagships. From UConn, to URI, to UMass, now possibly to the SUNYs - the remaining New England flagships universities have been left behind athletically by former conference mates. I do think the State's demographics and budget is a huge part of the reason for this decline ("graying" States with limited tax bases for public universities), however those ADs and Presidents must take some responsibility for the current situation. Look at the last 4 teams in the AE's Commissioners Cup: 2012: Maine, Hartford, UVM, UNH 2011: UVM, Hartford, Maine, UNH 2010: Hartford, UVM, Maine, UMBC 2009: Hartford, Maine, UMBC, UVM 2008: Maine, Hartford, UVM, UNH/SBU 2007: Hartford, Maine, UNH, SBU Hartford, Maine, and UVM have finished in the bottom 4 for at least the last 5 years. I know that many of these schools sponsor successfull teams outside of the AE, such as hockey or golf. Additionally, no one is questioning the academic quality of athletes at Maine, UHa, UVM or UNH. This is just some food for thought ... I'm just raising this for further discussion. Last edited by Aceinthehole; 06-18-2012 at 07:04 AM.

06-18-2012, 06:45 AM	#128 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,455 Rep Power: 62496	Re: Boston University to Patriot League Official BU leaving the AE is an impact on the conference- it was a team that typically you knew was always going to finish Top 4 and bring in good talent. This will certainly impact recruiting when it comes to selling the conference. BU is definitely one of the schools you would highlight when discussing the conference. As for what Vermont does, I don't see us aggressively looking to change conferences as long as the league retains an autobid. Let's say the conference loses BU and SBU- it won't be like when the conference lost Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern and Towson. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)