No AE Championships for BU? - Page 7 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

Dane96 · 07-03-2012, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BingGrad

The Conspiracy Theorist says:

"All of the other changes from the original document have revision dates noted in parentheses at the end of the clause. The ineligibility clause (5b) does not. But we know it hasn't been there from the beginning. So, what gives?"

True, but unlikely. You cannot just change the by-laws in secrecy. There must have been a vote at some point and a 1st year law student should be able to flesh that out in a deposition.

Aceinthehole · 07-03-2012, 06:09 AM

Yep. So it appears that this by-law was voted and approved in 2005 - post NU's departure - by all AE members, including BU.

Assuming this is fact, that tough $hit for BU teams. The school (president & AD) made a business decision that a move to the PL was in its best interests. Maybe it was their best move - but the "cost" of making this move is $250k + inelligibility for AE conference championships, period.

There is almost nothing to debate (or litigate).

I don't think BU did anything wrong. They did what was best for them. The fact that the AE is down to 8 members and the AQ status may be in jeopardy, is not entirely their fault. The league is fractured and it's not really accurate to blame BU for all the league's woes. I find it hard to think that with 1/9 of a vote, they completely "controlled" the league. Sure, they held a lot of power, but the rest of the membership is just as responsible for the current league situation.

On the other hand, the AE is simply upholding an existing by-law which BU knew about. This ban from conference championships is not a suprise to anyone within the league, and any attempt by BU officials to suggest that they were unaware or this move hurts student-athletes is just postering. I would not expect Stony Brook (or any other AE school) to announce their departure from the league until next Spring - yet that could be eeven more destabilizing to the AE than BU's current exit.

mainejeff · 07-03-2012, 06:42 AM

Divorce is never an easy thing.........

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 07-03-2012, 06:51 AM

And lets be honest, while BU is always a threat- I think it's a moot point and just don't see their roster competing for an AE title unless the freshman are really, really, really good and Jake O'Brien is better than he's ever been.

I don't see where rebounds are going to come from and post defense. They have almost no size/front court depth, and only 4 juniors/seniors on roster. Here's the roster:

http://www.goterriers.com/sports/m-b...askbl-mtt.html

If that roster was going to be the AE rep for mens hoops, then this conference has unimaginable problems.

Blakely4Prez · 07-03-2012, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

And lets be honest, while BU is always a threat- I think it's a moot point and just don't see their roster competing for an AE title unless the freshman are really, really, really good and Jake O'Brien is better than he's ever been.

I don't see where rebounds are going to come from and post defense. They have almost no size/front court depth, and only 4 juniors/seniors on roster. Here's the roster:

http://www.goterriers.com/sports/m-b...askbl-mtt.html

Agreed on basketball sir...but, THey would compete for the title in many other sports like soccer

All I have to say to BU is this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVBvy2cc0Io

NU Hoop Fan · 07-03-2012, 07:09 AM

Here's what the bylaw said..

b. Upon notice of an institution’s intention to withdraw from America East, the institution’s
teams become ineligible, on a date to be determined by the remaining members of the
Board of Presidents, to compete for Conference postseason championships.

I believe that's what the CAA's bylaws said as well.

Now, I'm guessing that the vote could have been held 2 seconds after BU resigned, and we all know what it was, and what the date was. They could have said "BU's teams will be ineligible as of June 30, 2013" but they didn't.

I checked the metadata on the bylaws on line (UB and D96 know what that is) and it was created and last modified on 9-14-11. There was no "recent" updating of this Post-BU move.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 07-03-2012, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NU Hoop Fan

Here's what the bylaw said..

I checked the metadata on the bylaws on line (UB and D96 know what that is) and it was created and last modified on 9-14-11. There was no "recent" updating of this Post-BU move.

Yep, 9/14/11 at 2:10pm

Translation:

"I right-clicked on the document and clicked "Document Properties"

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 07-03-2012, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blakely4Prez

THey would compete for the title in many other sports like soccer

All I have to say to BU is this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVBvy2cc0Io

Oh I'm sure, but I don't pay any attention to any other sport besides basketball

I bet BU has a nasty field hockey team.

NU Hoop Fan · 07-03-2012, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

Yep, 9/14/11 at 2:10pm

Translation:

"I right-clicked on the document and clicked "Document Properties"

Nice one. However, since this was posted on a website, I used anoter tool to check it to make sure it wasn't altered (since you can alter it if you're smart enough), but yes, that's how you can get the metadata.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 07-03-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NU Hoop Fan

Nice one. However, since this was posted on a website, I used anoter tool to check it to make sure it wasn't altered (since you can alter it if you're smart enough), but yes, that's how you can get the metadata.

Nice. Yeah, I have no doubt that those properties can be altered and I'm certain there are sophisticated security tools to make sure and verify documents are not altered-especially useful in today's increasingly digital world.

Not that I really suspected the AE to alter documents though- but good to have that extra layer of comfort.

Dane96 · 07-03-2012, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

Yep, 9/14/11 at 2:10pm

Translation:

"I right-clicked on the document and clicked "Document Properties"

Actually, technically speaking...that is incorrect. Deep metadata...much different than properties and you need a program to go underneath the layers.

UPDATE: Just saw NUHF's confirmation. Yep...there are tools you need to truly break into metadata. It's why a lawsuit is useless for BU. They'd spend a ton more than they would gain.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 07-03-2012, 08:11 AM

So the question becomes....if you're Jake O'Brien, do you check into your options? I certainly would- and I would think there would be a real possibility he might not return, and I couldn't blame him one bit. I think it would be difficult going into final season after sitting out about a year and a half knowing you can't play in NCAA Tournament.

Additionally, if you're BU do you think about red shirting any of the freshmen, assuming they would be alright with that? Someone like Maurice Watson probably wants to get going.

NU Hoop Fan · 07-03-2012, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

So the question becomes....if you're Jake O'Brien, do you check into your options? I certainly would- and I would think there would be a real possibility he might not return, and I couldn't blame him one bit. I think it would be difficult going into final season after sitting out about a year and a half knowing you can't play in NCAA Tournament.

Additionally, if you're BU do you think about red shirting any of the freshmen, assuming they would be alright with that?

If I'm Jake, I call Bill Coen. (Being VERY Selfish). Heck, I call Tommy Amaker. He can pretty much go anywhere he wants to a team that has an open scholarship.

If I'm BU - I redshirt everyone and stick it to the AE. Play kids who don't want to redshirt.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 07-03-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NU Hoop Fan

If I'm Jake, I call Bill Coen. (Being VERY Selfish). Heck, I call Tommy Amaker. He can pretty much go anywhere he wants to a team that has an open scholarship.

If I'm BU - I redshirt everyone and stick it to the AE. Play kids who don't want to redshirt.

Yeah, that's my thoughts on O'Brien. Not necessarily NU or Harvard, but he would pursue options. Didn't he look at Providence and Xavier when he thought about transferring before? Both have scholarships available now I believe. Not saying either party is interested, just throwing out the possibility.

Given the losses the league has had this off-season, I think the RPI is already screwed for next season- by screwed I mean it's either going to be same place it was last season or worse- so I'm not sure that would really stick it to the AE. If BU redshirts anyone, they will do it for their own reasons like Towson didn't try to get a waiver for Four and one of their 2012 recruits Frank Mason just reclassified to 2013.

bosiydid · 07-03-2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NU Hoop Fan

If I'm Jake, I call Bill Coen. (Being VERY Selfish). Heck, I call Tommy Amaker. He can pretty much go anywhere he wants to a team that has an open scholarship.

If I'm BU - I redshirt everyone and stick it to the AE. Play kids who don't want to redshirt.

How is that sticking it to the AE? How much lower can the RPI get? I'm assuming this is what you were referencing by sticking it to the AE.

07-03-2012, 06:09 AM	#92 (permalink)
Aceinthehole Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,546 Rep Power: 8611	Re: No AE Championships for BU? Yep. So it appears that this by-law was voted and approved in 2005 - post NU's departure - by all AE members, including BU. Assuming this is fact, that tough $hit for BU teams. The school (president & AD) made a business decision that a move to the PL was in its best interests. Maybe it was their best move - but the "cost" of making this move is $250k + inelligibility for AE conference championships, period. There is almost nothing to debate (or litigate). I don't think BU did anything wrong. They did what was best for them. The fact that the AE is down to 8 members and the AQ status may be in jeopardy, is not entirely their fault. The league is fractured and it's not really accurate to blame BU for all the league's woes. I find it hard to think that with 1/9 of a vote, they completely "controlled" the league. Sure, they held a lot of power, but the rest of the membership is just as responsible for the current league situation. On the other hand, the AE is simply upholding an existing by-law which BU knew about. This ban from conference championships is not a suprise to anyone within the league, and any attempt by BU officials to suggest that they were unaware or this move hurts student-athletes is just postering. I would not expect Stony Brook (or any other AE school) to announce their departure from the league until next Spring - yet that could be eeven more destabilizing to the AE than BU's current exit.

07-03-2012, 06:42 AM	#93 (permalink)
mainejeff All-Star Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 7,250 Rep Power: 37820	Re: No AE Championships for BU? Divorce is never an easy thing.........

07-03-2012, 06:51 AM	#94 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,458 Rep Power: 62496	Re: No AE Championships for BU? And lets be honest, while BU is always a threat- I think it's a moot point and just don't see their roster competing for an AE title unless the freshman are really, really, really good and Jake O'Brien is better than he's ever been. I don't see where rebounds are going to come from and post defense. They have almost no size/front court depth, and only 4 juniors/seniors on roster. Here's the roster: http://www.goterriers.com/sports/m-b...askbl-mtt.html If that roster was going to be the AE rep for mens hoops, then this conference has unimaginable problems. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

07-03-2012, 07:09 AM	#96 (permalink)
NU Hoop Fan All-Star Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 5,089 Rep Power: 32212	Re: No AE Championships for BU? Here's what the bylaw said.. b. Upon notice of an institution’s intention to withdraw from America East, the institution’s teams become ineligible, on a date to be determined by the remaining members of the Board of Presidents, to compete for Conference postseason championships. I believe that's what the CAA's bylaws said as well. Now, I'm guessing that the vote could have been held 2 seconds after BU resigned, and we all know what it was, and what the date was. They could have said "BU's teams will be ineligible as of June 30, 2013" but they didn't. I checked the metadata on the bylaws on line (UB and D96 know what that is) and it was created and last modified on 9-14-11. There was no "recent" updating of this Post-BU move. __________________ Today is the first day of the next 86 years!

07-03-2012, 08:11 AM	#102 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,458 Rep Power: 62496	Re: No AE Championships for BU? So the question becomes....if you're Jake O'Brien, do you check into your options? I certainly would- and I would think there would be a real possibility he might not return, and I couldn't blame him one bit. I think it would be difficult going into final season after sitting out about a year and a half knowing you can't play in NCAA Tournament. Additionally, if you're BU do you think about red shirting any of the freshmen, assuming they would be alright with that? Someone like Maurice Watson probably wants to get going. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

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