OT - Penn State penalties - Page 4 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

hoopcat · 07-26-2012, 05:57 AM

In addition to all NUHF said above, imagine how bad Penn St. would look in the court of public opinion if they fought this. It would drag the whole process out quite a bit longer and Penn State would continue to have their name in the news for the wrong reasons. They have to move on, much more than football is at stake. Outside of football, Penn State is a GREAT University, restoring that reputation has to be the priority. They are way past worrying about the football program.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 07-26-2012, 07:00 AM

Some additional final thoughts:

There are a few things I keep hearing from different places about "well, the NCAA wanted to make an example out of Penn State"- you bet they did. I don't know that there has been something so wrong, so grotesque, so devastating then what occurred there. The whole idea of dealing with PSU in this way is to prevent this from occurring at another school in the future and make everyone aware of the consequences.

There has been discussions, and even in the article I linked to about other events and how have they been dealt with- but each event has been different. For example Syracuse- correct me if I'm wrong but didn't one of the accusers say they were lying? And was Fine ever convicted of anything? Virginia- correct me if I'm wrong here again, but did this murder involve more than the two people? Were multiple school authorities involved in the planning of this murder- did the Lax coach know, the AD know? No. Could they have stopped it like PSU officials could have prevented countless victims from being raped? No.

It seems like those worried about how the NCAA acts in these types of cases is unable to note the differences between them, and just conveniently lumps them all in as one- which is the wrong thing to do.

Montana could be a closer example- if it comes out that town authorities and school authorities have been looking the other way on rape charges- then why shouldn't the NCAA penalize them in the same manner they penalized PSU? Of course the NCAA should. Further, people that are worried about how the NCAA handles future events that might occur in college athletics has already lost sight of what's happened now at PSU.

As Emmert said, it's a case-by-case basis and ultimately the NCAA is going to have discretion on how to act, and that is perfectly fine with me. I don't believe that the NCAA needs to write in Don't Rape Children into its docs- it's unnecessary IMO, but we are such a litigious society that it's probably something the NCAA must do now.

bob87 · 07-26-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

Some additional final thoughts:

There are a few things I keep hearing from different places about "well, the NCAA wanted to make an example out of Penn State"- you bet they did. I don't know that there has been something so wrong, so grotesque, so devastating then what occurred there. The whole idea of dealing with PSU in this way is to prevent this from occurring at another school in the future and make everyone aware of the consequences. There has been discussions, and even in the article I linked to about other events and how have they been dealt with- but each event has been different. For example Syracuse- correct me if I'm wrong but didn't one of the accusers say they were lying? And was Fine ever convicted of anything? Virginia- correct me if I'm wrong here again, but did this murder involve more than the two people? Were multiple school authorities involved in the planning of this murder- did the Lax coach know, the AD know? No. Could they have stopped it like PSU officials could have prevented countless victims from being raped? No.

It seems like those worried about how the NCAA acts in these types of cases is unable to note the differences between them, and just conveniently lumps them all in as one- which is the wrong thing to do.

Montana could be a closer example- if it comes out that town authorities and school authorities have been looking the other way on rape charges- then why shouldn't the NCAA penalize them in the same manner they penalized PSU? Of course the NCAA should. Further, people that are worried about how the NCAA handles future events that might occur in college athletics has already lost sight of what's happened now at PSU.

As Emmert said, it's a case-by-case basis and ultimately the NCAA is going to have discretion on how to act, and that is perfectly fine with me. I don't believe that the NCAA needs to write in Don't Rape Children into its docs- it's unnecessary IMO, but we are such a litigious society that it's probably something the NCAA must do now.

I don't know anyone who doesn't think that these were horrendous crimes, but jail for someone committing this crime (Sandusky) and likely jail for those involved in the crime of the cover-up and still on pending charges for the cover-up did not deter this from happening, but somehow the NCAA penalties will be the thing that deters the next horrendous incident from happening. Call me skeptical on that.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 07-26-2012, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob87

I don't know anyone who doesn't think that these were horrendous crimes, but jail for someone committing this crime (Sandusky) and likely jail for those involved in the crime of the cover-up and still on pending charges for the cover-up did not deter this from happening, but somehow the NCAA penalties will be the thing that deters the next horrendous incident from happening. Call me skeptical on that.

I'm skeptical too- I mean, some people are just meant to be criminals. But one can easily argue the very reason they chose not to report these crimes- knowing they could face severe criminal penalties- was because they were afraid of what would happen to their reputations and image of Penn State Athletics- and the case here, for everyone to see, to the next school administrator that decides to cover up crimes out of fear of their image, is...what is happening now to PSU, in the end you will go down. I think this can be an effective deterrent, but I guess time will tell until there is another Penn State or something similar.

Penn State can't go back in time but think what would have happened had someone acted immediately back when incidents were first reported- everything now would have been prevented and PSU is most likely firing on all cylinders today and playing in bowl games- now they're sunk for quite some time.

Aceinthehole · 08-07-2012, 06:44 AM

Penn State is appealing the NCAA's ruling.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ederal-lawsuit

Quote:

A Penn State board of trustee member filed an appeal Monday afternoon with the NCAA over sanctions levied against the university after the Jerry Sandusky child sex-abuse scandal.

Three other trustees joined the appeal, which states that the consent decree university president Rodney Erickson signed with the NCAA agreeing to the sanctions is "null and void" because Erickson "lacked the legal authority" to enter into such an agreement without the board's approval.

Trustees and a person with first-hand knowledge of the discussions said the move is a precursor to a federal lawsuit asking a judge to invalidate the sanctions, because trustees expect the NCAA to reject the appeal.

...

• The NCAA did not give Penn State trustees and the university due process when it did not follow its usual investigation and enforcement procedures.
...

McCombie, one of three new trustees elected by alumni to the board, was one of the most outspoken trustees at a July 25 board session about Erickson not consulting a majority of trustees before signing the consent decree, trustees said.

After that three-hour session in State College, the board issued a statement saying it was standing by Erickson's decision to sign the consent decree. ESPN The Magazine reported last week the university was facing a four-year death penalty if Erickson had not signed the decree, and that the NCAA had warned Penn State that if there were a leak about proposed sanctions to the media, the discussions would end and the death penalty would be all but certain.

In his letter to trustees Monday, McCombie wrote: "It is my belief that this matter did require board approval and that we should engage in a full, and complete, review. In the end, we all benefit from having this matter handled correctly and with full regard for due process -- only then can we be truly confident in the result and the actions we take as a board.

"Furthermore, only after we have given all involved the opportunity to be heard can we move forward together as one university."

ecasadoSBU · 08-07-2012, 08:10 AM

The right thing to do IMO. but This is going to get ugly...

The Magic Man · 08-07-2012, 09:36 AM

Wow, they just keep digging a bigger hole for themselves... nothing good is going to come out of this for Penn State, they need to drop the issue and move on. Seriously.

hoopcat · 08-07-2012, 11:55 AM

Wait....four trustees are filing on their own behalf? They have no authority to do this as individuals do they? I mean, there are like thirty trustees at PSU.

This is a non-starter, this will be thrown out quickly, as will the following lawsuit. These guys need to be voted off the island.

**ball_of_rubber** · 08-08-2012, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Magic Man

Wow, they just keep digging a bigger hole for themselves... nothing good is going to come out of this for Penn State, they need to drop the issue and move on. Seriously.

I completely agree. Whatever NCAA or legal loophole they find or claim to have found shouldn't matter. This is the biggest college football scandal since SMU's death penalty (bigger, even), they should just take the hit and move on. Maybe in 20 years, ESPN will do a 50 for 50 on this subject.

The Magic Man · 08-08-2012, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ball_of_rubber

I completely agree. Whatever NCAA or legal loophole they find or claim to have found shouldn't matter. This is the biggest college football scandal since SMU's death penalty (bigger, even), they should just take the hit and move on. Maybe in 20 years, ESPN will do a 50 for 50 on this subject.

It kind of amazes me how some Penn State people think they are somehow victims in all of this. I don't think they realize that the NCAA actually went easy on them, considering that they originally were leaning towards a 4-year death penalty. Why give them a reason to make them re-consider the punishment? Plus, with the lawsuit that is going to come out of this, it keeps the school's name alive in the media for all the wrong reasons.

As hoopcat mentioned before, Penn State is a great university regardless of the football program, heck, I was strongly considering going there. It's not like football has to be the only thing the university can identify with.

umainealum · 08-08-2012, 09:19 AM

And now this:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ncaa-sanctions

Do the players really feel like they need to appeal the vacated wins? The only thing this really changes is in regards to JoePa...the players can still feel like they won the games they did. I really don't understand how they think this helps anything.

With rogue Trustees and now football alumni making noise, this is just going to hurt Penn State all the more. This story is just never going to go away and eventually, the NCAA may just say fine, we will go do an investigation and if any team has so much as made one NCAA violation no matter how minor, we will come down on you with the hammer. If this continues, they are really going to put the rest of the athletic teams in jeopardy.

umainealum · 08-13-2012, 10:59 PM

And the bad keeps on coming for PSU...and have the courts even done anything yet? Man, really tough road ahead for Penn State.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-nittany-lions

ecasadoSBU · 08-14-2012, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umainealum

And the bad keeps on coming for PSU...and have the courts even done anything yet? Man, really tough road ahead for Penn State.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-nittany-lions

wait a second... what the hell does accreditation have to do with all of this? isn't the Middle States Commission on Higher Education only related to academic matters?

Penn State is a great University, and will continue to be one. I don't see why the need for such a warning...

**ball_of_rubber** · 08-14-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecasadoSBU

wait a second... what the hell does accreditation have to do with all of this? isn't the Middle States Commission on Higher Education only related to academic matters?

Penn State is a great University, and will continue to be one. I don't see why the need for such a warning...

When Penn St. didnt report what they knew in 1998, they violated the Clery Act, which requires them to report any crime on campus to proper authorities.

NotDeadYet · 08-14-2012, 05:47 PM

Every ounce of coverup turns into a pound of dynamite when the truth gets out.

07-26-2012, 05:57 AM	#46 (permalink)
hoopcat Star Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,567 Rep Power: 4293	Re: OT - Penn State penalties In addition to all NUHF said above, imagine how bad Penn St. would look in the court of public opinion if they fought this. It would drag the whole process out quite a bit longer and Penn State would continue to have their name in the news for the wrong reasons. They have to move on, much more than football is at stake. Outside of football, Penn State is a GREAT University, restoring that reputation has to be the priority. They are way past worrying about the football program.

07-26-2012, 07:00 AM	#47 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,454 Rep Power: 62496	Re: OT - Penn State penalties Some additional final thoughts: There are a few things I keep hearing from different places about "well, the NCAA wanted to make an example out of Penn State"- you bet they did. I don't know that there has been something so wrong, so grotesque, so devastating then what occurred there. The whole idea of dealing with PSU in this way is to prevent this from occurring at another school in the future and make everyone aware of the consequences. There has been discussions, and even in the article I linked to about other events and how have they been dealt with- but each event has been different. For example Syracuse- correct me if I'm wrong but didn't one of the accusers say they were lying? And was Fine ever convicted of anything? Virginia- correct me if I'm wrong here again, but did this murder involve more than the two people? Were multiple school authorities involved in the planning of this murder- did the Lax coach know, the AD know? No. Could they have stopped it like PSU officials could have prevented countless victims from being raped? No. It seems like those worried about how the NCAA acts in these types of cases is unable to note the differences between them, and just conveniently lumps them all in as one- which is the wrong thing to do. Montana could be a closer example- if it comes out that town authorities and school authorities have been looking the other way on rape charges- then why shouldn't the NCAA penalize them in the same manner they penalized PSU? Of course the NCAA should. Further, people that are worried about how the NCAA handles future events that might occur in college athletics has already lost sight of what's happened now at PSU. As Emmert said, it's a case-by-case basis and ultimately the NCAA is going to have discretion on how to act, and that is perfectly fine with me. I don't believe that the NCAA needs to write in Don't Rape Children into its docs- it's unnecessary IMO, but we are such a litigious society that it's probably something the NCAA must do now. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

08-07-2012, 08:10 AM	#51 (permalink)
ecasadoSBU Veteran Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Stony Brook, NY Posts: 2,352 Rep Power: 9250	Re: OT - Penn State penalties The right thing to do IMO. but This is going to get ugly... __________________ Everything a Stony Brook Fan Needs: SBU FANS Message Board - http://sbufan.createaforum.com/index.php I'MASEAWOLF News/Fan board/Blog: http://www.imaseawolf.com/ WUSB.FM - SBU Athletics Radio Streaming & Sports Blog: http://sbradiosports.blogspot.com/ Official Stony Brook Athletics Site: http://www.goseawolves.org/ Last edited by ecasadoSBU; 08-07-2012 at 08:15 AM.

08-07-2012, 09:36 AM	#52 (permalink)
The Magic Man Benchwarmer Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seawolves Nation Posts: 121 Rep Power: 1414	Re: OT - Penn State penalties Wow, they just keep digging a bigger hole for themselves... nothing good is going to come out of this for Penn State, they need to drop the issue and move on. Seriously.

08-07-2012, 11:55 AM	#53 (permalink)
hoopcat Star Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,567 Rep Power: 4293	Re: OT - Penn State penalties Wait....four trustees are filing on their own behalf? They have no authority to do this as individuals do they? I mean, there are like thirty trustees at PSU. This is a non-starter, this will be thrown out quickly, as will the following lawsuit. These guys need to be voted off the island.

08-08-2012, 09:19 AM	#56 (permalink)
umainealum Veteran Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,442 Rep Power: 28923	Re: OT - Penn State penalties And now this: http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ncaa-sanctions Do the players really feel like they need to appeal the vacated wins? The only thing this really changes is in regards to JoePa...the players can still feel like they won the games they did. I really don't understand how they think this helps anything. With rogue Trustees and now football alumni making noise, this is just going to hurt Penn State all the more. This story is just never going to go away and eventually, the NCAA may just say fine, we will go do an investigation and if any team has so much as made one NCAA violation no matter how minor, we will come down on you with the hammer. If this continues, they are really going to put the rest of the athletic teams in jeopardy. __________________ UMaine - the epitome of mediocrity Proud supporter of an AMERICA EAST team that made a coaching change...

08-13-2012, 10:59 PM	#57 (permalink)
umainealum Veteran Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,442 Rep Power: 28923	Re: OT - Penn State penalties And the bad keeps on coming for PSU...and have the courts even done anything yet? Man, really tough road ahead for Penn State. http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-nittany-lions __________________ UMaine - the epitome of mediocrity Proud supporter of an AMERICA EAST team that made a coaching change...

08-14-2012, 05:47 PM	#60 (permalink)
NotDeadYet Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Burlington, VT Posts: 875 Rep Power: 35420	Re: OT - Penn State penalties Every ounce of coverup turns into a pound of dynamite when the truth gets out.

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