OT - Penn State penalties - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

umainealum · 07-23-2012, 06:26 AM

So, here they are:

1. $60 million dollar fine to be used to help children/victims of sexual abuse
2. 4-year bowl ban
3. Decrease of initial scholarships from 25 to 15 plus another 10 for a 4-year period
4. Vacating all wins from 1998-2011
5. 5-year probation period

I have a feeling there could be a legal response from Penn State but then again, they may just choose to accept and move on.

This is also making me wonder...we have heard for many years that the BCS leagues were thinking about creating their own association. Does this push that idea further ahead?

bosiydid · 07-23-2012, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umainealum

So, here they are:

1. $60 million dollar fine to be used to help sex-abuse children
2. 4-year bowl ban
3. Decrease of initial scholarships from 25 to 15 plus another 10 for a 4-year period
4. Vacating all wins from 1998-2011
5. 5-year probation period

I have a feeling there could be a legal response from Penn State but then again, they may just choose to accept and move on.

This is also making me wonder...we have heard for many years that the BCS leagues were thinking about creating their own association. Does this push that idea further ahead?

Penn St. has signed the consent form provided by the NCAA...there won't be any legal challenges, they've accepted the NCAA sanctions. As they should...how the mighty have fallen.

umainealum · 07-23-2012, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bosiydid

Penn St. has signed the consent form provided by the NCAA...there won't be any legal challenges, they've accepted the NCAA sanctions. As they should...how the mighty have fallen.

Yeah, I had already typed this up prior to hearing that...

ccd494 · 07-23-2012, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umainealum

1. $60 million dollar fine to be used to help sex-abuse children

Am I a horrible person for laughing out loud at that?

umainealum · 07-23-2012, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccd494

Am I a horrible person for laughing out loud at that?

I typed it quick...should it be re-worded? I re-worded it...

Aceinthehole · 07-23-2012, 07:18 AM

The entire situation is a very sad tragedy and a criminal offense. The focus today and in the future always should be on the victims.

That being said, once again the NCAA is out of touch with its responsibilities. This is just a knee-jerk public relations reaction to prove they have some power. How come the NCAA didn’t step in after the UVA Lacrosse murders, or how about the FAMU band hazing?

The legal system of the State of Pennsylvania and the United States has more than enough appropriate tools at its disposal to punish the guilty and ensure this never happens again. The NCAA should just do nothing!

umainealum · 07-23-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceinthehole

That being said, once again the NCAA is out of touch with its responsibilities. This is just a knee-jerk public relations reaction to prove they have some power. How come the NCAA didn’t step in after the UVA Lacrosse murders, or how about the FAMU band hazing?

I was thinking about that as well...along with the Baylor murder situation and others. However, my memory isn't what it used to be and I'm trying to recall the situations and facts around the cases. Was there "cover up" involved? I think there was at Baylor. Was there a situation where a blind eye was turned for years? I just don't know. Did those situations actually occur within the convines of the athletic department?

I really don't know...but this is quite a thing that has just happened and I do wonder what the future ramifications will be as a result.

NU Hoop Fan · 07-23-2012, 08:58 AM

The NCAA didn't step in for the UVA murders because the coaches, and President and Board weren't involved in a cover up of some of the most heinous crimes we could all conjure up on this board.

Was the athletic department involved in a cover up of the FAMU band hazing? I dont' know all the details well enough to comment. This was a case where members of the athletic department - senior members - who are under the direction of the NCAA, violated the general themes of NCAA governance.

The NCAA has an "Institutional Control" provision in its charter/by laws for conduct of the Athletic Department and University oversight of Athletics. Penn State's athletic department and its corporate governance CLEARLY violated this provision, there is no acceptable argument counter to it.

Therefore the NCAA has the right to exert whatever penalties it wanted.

Penn State accepted the penalties. Didn't fight them.

The one element of the penalties people are not talking about is the independent monitor.

The best way to analogize an indepentent monitor is to have your mother in law look over your shoulder, question everything you want to do BEFORE and AFTER you ask permission from her. Independent monitors are often a part of corporate sanctions. In fact, I tweeted about 10 minutes before the NCAA announced its penalities "if the NCAA really wants to make it hurt, it would put in an independent monitor."

Independent monitors suck, ask anyone who works for a corporation who has one.

boxout · 07-23-2012, 09:19 AM

what's missing in the above list is that any current PSU player who wish's to transfer may do so and not have to sit a year. So with the reduction of scholies/players this may be worse than the death Pen.

NU Hoop Fan · 07-23-2012, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxout

what's missing in the above list is that any current PSU player who wish's to transfer may do so and not have to sit a year. So with the reduction of scholies/players this may be worse than the death Pen.

+1

I tweeted when the penalties were being announced. "Penn State to appeal NCAA ruling, asking for leniency - the Death Penalty"

Interestingly, any current PSU player on scholarship can remove himself from the team and continue to keep his scholarship as long as he's in good academic standing - that's usually a Death Penalty provision (NU and Hofstra both allowed it for our FB players as well).

TerrierNation · 07-23-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umainealum

So, here they are:

3. Decrease of initial scholarships from 25 to 15 plus another 10 for a 4-year period

What does this mean exactly? How many scholarships do they normally give out and how many will they give out in the next five years?

ecasadoSBU · 07-23-2012, 12:19 PM

The NCAA is a monster... That's all I have to say

hoopcat · 07-23-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecasadoSBU

The NCAA is a monster... That's all I have to say

Jerry Sandusky is a Monster. The NCAA did the right thing.

The NCAA's response was extreme, but they did the right thing. Notice that PSU didn't protest. As NUHF pointed out this is worse than the death penalty, a lot worse, actually. This will take a decade to recover from. You gotta remember that one of the reasons the PSU administration didn't act was because the football program was considered untouchable. If the NCAA did not react strongly, they would be sending the same message.

Bill O'Brien has committed career suicide, I don't think he realized how big a mess the situation actually was. It will be interesting to see what he does, if he bails now he will look bad, but this is a horrible situation now.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 07-23-2012, 01:09 PM

When something like this happens...sports are the last thing that matter. Forget football- that's not even close to important at this point- PSU as an institution....has a long, tough road of recovery ahead. Joe Paterno coaching until he's like 90- I mean, anyone think that's normal behavior for people his age?

This thing probably goes so deep, so many questions, ..I don't even want to know- too scary.

ecasadoSBU · 07-23-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopcat

Jerry Sandusky is a Monster. The NCAA did the right thing.

The NCAA's response was extreme, but they did the right thing. Notice that PSU didn't protest. As NUHF pointed out this is worse than the death penalty, a lot worse, actually. This will take a decade to recover from. You gotta remember that one of the reasons the PSU administration didn't act was because the football program was considered untouchable. If the NCAA did not react strongly, they would be sending the same message.

Bill O'Brien has committed career suicide, I don't think he realized how big a mess the situation actually was. It will be interesting to see what he does, if he bails now he will look bad, but this is a horrible situation now.

yep. Jerry Sandusky is also a monster and he will be serving his life-long sentence very soon. I just think the NCAA is going out of its bounds. The NCAA is doing this out of ethica/moral obligations but they don't have any legal power to do this. PennState is not protesting because they just want to move on but if they wanted to they would probably win an appeal...

This is a legal matter that should be resolved in the courts. This doesn't involve no competitive violations. and the program and its students shouldn't suffer for the crimes of Sandusky and a few other that covered it up...

This is insane

Things like this could break the NCAA apart...

We cannot get carried away by emotions like everyone else. The mainstream public that doesn't have any idea about how these things work support the NCAA decision but we in this board know that the NCAA doesn't have the legal authority to make such profound decisions to a program, student-athletes, and a school. This wasn't any competitive violation. This was a crime involving a child offender on school grounds with several different people covering it up. Those individuals should pay the price, not the program itself.

07-23-2012, 06:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
umainealum Veteran Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,409 Rep Power: 28923	OT - Penn State penalties So, here they are: 1. $60 million dollar fine to be used to help children/victims of sexual abuse 2. 4-year bowl ban 3. Decrease of initial scholarships from 25 to 15 plus another 10 for a 4-year period 4. Vacating all wins from 1998-2011 5. 5-year probation period I have a feeling there could be a legal response from Penn State but then again, they may just choose to accept and move on. This is also making me wonder...we have heard for many years that the BCS leagues were thinking about creating their own association. Does this push that idea further ahead? __________________ UMaine - the epitome of mediocrity Proud supporter of an AMERICA EAST team that made a coaching change... Last edited by umainealum; 07-23-2012 at 06:54 AM.

07-23-2012, 07:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
Aceinthehole Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,534 Rep Power: 8611	Re: OT - Penn State penalties The entire situation is a very sad tragedy and a criminal offense. The focus today and in the future always should be on the victims. That being said, once again the NCAA is out of touch with its responsibilities. This is just a knee-jerk public relations reaction to prove they have some power. How come the NCAA didn’t step in after the UVA Lacrosse murders, or how about the FAMU band hazing? The legal system of the State of Pennsylvania and the United States has more than enough appropriate tools at its disposal to punish the guilty and ensure this never happens again. The NCAA should just do nothing!

07-23-2012, 08:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
NU Hoop Fan All-Star Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 5,083 Rep Power: 32212	Re: OT - Penn State penalties The NCAA didn't step in for the UVA murders because the coaches, and President and Board weren't involved in a cover up of some of the most heinous crimes we could all conjure up on this board. Was the athletic department involved in a cover up of the FAMU band hazing? I dont' know all the details well enough to comment. This was a case where members of the athletic department - senior members - who are under the direction of the NCAA, violated the general themes of NCAA governance. The NCAA has an "Institutional Control" provision in its charter/by laws for conduct of the Athletic Department and University oversight of Athletics. Penn State's athletic department and its corporate governance CLEARLY violated this provision, there is no acceptable argument counter to it. Therefore the NCAA has the right to exert whatever penalties it wanted. Penn State accepted the penalties. Didn't fight them. The one element of the penalties people are not talking about is the independent monitor. The best way to analogize an indepentent monitor is to have your mother in law look over your shoulder, question everything you want to do BEFORE and AFTER you ask permission from her. Independent monitors are often a part of corporate sanctions. In fact, I tweeted about 10 minutes before the NCAA announced its penalities "if the NCAA really wants to make it hurt, it would put in an independent monitor." Independent monitors suck, ask anyone who works for a corporation who has one. __________________ Today is the first day of the next 86 years!

07-23-2012, 09:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
boxout Benchwarmer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 146 Rep Power: 1417	Re: OT - Penn State penalties what's missing in the above list is that any current PSU player who wish's to transfer may do so and not have to sit a year. So with the reduction of scholies/players this may be worse than the death Pen.

07-23-2012, 12:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
ecasadoSBU Veteran Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Stony Brook, NY Posts: 2,343 Rep Power: 9250	Re: OT - Penn State penalties The NCAA is a monster... That's all I have to say __________________ Everything a Stony Brook Fan Needs: SBU FANS Message Board - http://sbufan.createaforum.com/index.php I'MASEAWOLF News/Fan board/Blog: http://www.imaseawolf.com/ WUSB.FM - SBU Athletics Radio Streaming & Sports Blog: http://sbradiosports.blogspot.com/ Official Stony Brook Athletics Site: http://www.goseawolves.org/

07-23-2012, 01:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,416 Rep Power: 62496	Re: OT - Penn State penalties When something like this happens...sports are the last thing that matter. Forget football- that's not even close to important at this point- PSU as an institution....has a long, tough road of recovery ahead. Joe Paterno coaching until he's like 90- I mean, anyone think that's normal behavior for people his age? This thing probably goes so deep, so many questions, ..I don't even want to know- too scary. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

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