AE Gameday 11/24 - Page 6 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

WrenFGun · 11-25-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

You must remember about Ferg Myrick is that he had a serious knee injury his sophmore year in Durham and was still getting right last year. Patrick Konan couldnt stay on the floor last year do to him being in foul trouble. Not sure how you can blame either on Coach Herrion. In terms of Rhoads I don't think they treat him like a superstar but Herrion does love how hard he plays and the way he really guards you. The guy has been first team America East defense the past two years. I think you see Herrion this year trying to run an offense that better matches his personal, they now look to go inside, are attempting to push the ball up the floor. This is a different basketball team but it takes time after for the past three years being an outside shooting team that if the 3 ball was on they beat you and if not we know what happened. The 3 losses had nothing to do with Herrion's offense but more so with their ability to rebound, shoot foul shots and at times play good d. Herrion is trying to fix a program that has been awful since the early 1900s hence it has taken him 8 years to finally get the talent and pieces where they can be competive everynight. They have that now, they can compete every night but now they have to learn how to win. The FT's is a mental thing for these guys and that is tough to get over. I truly believe Herrion has them ready to take that next step this year it has only been five games come on let's judge this once they have been through conference play once please. In terms of Herrion being fired I don't see it and wouldnt be surprised to see an extension get done in the off season.

Holy cow you are drinking the kool-aid! Give me some of that!

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 11-25-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

You must remember about Ferg Myrick is that he had a serious knee injury his sophmore year in Durham and was still getting right last year. Patrick Konan couldnt stay on the floor last year do to him being in foul trouble. Not sure how you can blame either on Coach Herrion. In terms of Rhoads I don't think they treat him like a superstar but Herrion does love how hard he plays and the way he really guards you. The guy has been first team America East defense the past two years. I think you see Herrion this year trying to run an offense that better matches his personal, they now look to go inside, are attempting to push the ball up the floor. This is a different basketball team but it takes time after for the past three years being an outside shooting team that if the 3 ball was on they beat you and if not we know what happened. The 3 losses had nothing to do with Herrion's offense but more so with their ability to rebound, shoot foul shots and at times play good d. Herrion is trying to fix a program that has been awful since the early 1900s hence it has taken him 8 years to finally get the talent and pieces where they can be competive everynight. They have that now, they can compete every night but now they have to learn how to win. The FT's is a mental thing for these guys and that is tough to get over. I truly believe Herrion has them ready to take that next step this year it has only been five games come on let's judge this once they have been through conference play once please. In terms of Herrion being fired I don't see it and wouldnt be surprised to see an extension get done in the off season.

I remember Myrick's injury, I was watching the game. It was a horrific injury- but even pre-injury/post injury he's just not the player he could be given the offensive system he's in.

Same with Konan- 16 shots today- but 8 of those shots were 3s?

Too much emphasis on taking 3s. 3s should be taken when they're available- but the offense shouldn't be designed to create 3 point opportunities, which for UNH it is. If Tyrone Conley had played for UVM, he would have attempted 1/4 the amount of 3s he did while at UNH. It wasn't his strength, but at UNH he just fired away as part of the offense.

With slashers like Myrick/Konan I would want them driving to the hoop more, and also utilizing Pelcher more. In the HC loss, Myrick/Konan combined to take 24 shots and 12 of those were 3s- and both players are athletic 6'6'' forwards.

UNH has the wrong guys taking shots, and when the right guys take shots they are taking them from the the wrong places on the floor. I don't see how that's not Herrion's fault.

The Holy Cross loss they shot 2-17 from 3. How is that unlike most every other night they shoot/lose?...how is that doing things differently, as you're stating? Just curious your thoughts on that.

UNHFan · 11-25-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrenFGun

Holy cow you are drinking the kool-aid! Give me some of that!

What flavor would you like sir? I really believe what I posted. The biggest problem is that everyone thinks UNH Basketball is like anyother Div I program in the country and it is just not true. It is not run that way at all. The poor history, facilities and crushing academic standards make it a huge task for anyone to change and move in the right direction. I truly believe Herrion had no idea how hard it was when he took over the job but now I truly believe were going to start to see progress made. Everyone seems to agree that the recruiting has gotten much better. Give him through the first round of conference play before you start your usual winter Fire Herrion blog. Just a question to you Wren who would you bring in here that could do the job and get us to where you want us to go with the state of UNH as it is? Please don't tell me some young up and coming coach give me some names Wren. Play AD for me you fire Herrion and then who is on that short list that you call and try to convince to take over a program that has not had a winning season since 94-95.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 11-25-2012, 04:57 PM

And to be clear I have no interest in whether Herrion gets fired or coaches at UNH another 15 years.
No dog in that fight.

I'm simply a third party stating what I see when I have watched UNH play under Herrion.

UNH's offense actually reminds me a lot of Tom Brennan's UVM coached teams from mid-late 90s. Just bomb 3s and hope they go in. Of course we had better shooters, but it's not a winning strategy. It will produce 12-16, 11-17, maybe 15-14 seasons.

WrenFGun · 11-25-2012, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

What flavor would you like sir? I really believe what I posted. The biggest problem is that everyone thinks UNH Basketball is like anyother Div I program in the country and it is just not true. It is not run that way at all. The poor history, facilities and crushing academic standards make it a huge task for anyone to change and move in the right direction. I truly believe Herrion had no idea how hard it was when he took over the job but now I truly believe were going to start to see progress made. Everyone seems to agree that the recruiting has gotten much better. Give him through the first round of conference play before you start your usual winter Fire Herrion blog. Just a question to you Wren who would you bring in here that could do the job and get us to where you want us to go with the state of UNH as it is? Please don't tell me some young up and coming coach give me some names Wren. Play AD for me you fire Herrion and then who is on that short list that you call and try to convince to take over a program that has not had a winning season since 94-95.

Again, I never said we should fire Herrion (this year). I'll reserve judgment. His recruiting is getting better.

But come on ... "crushing academic standards?" ... really?

I'll say this. I think if you took the group of players Herrion assembled and you let Pikiell, Brown, Becker, etc. coach them, we'd be 4-1 right now, and maybe 5-0. I don't think we'd shoot more than 5-10 3's a game if we shot as bad as we did, and I don't think Chandler Rhoads and Jordon Bronner would play 35 minutes a game when they can't shoot. I also don't think players who consistently shot 50% from the line would be touching the ball much.

UNHFan · 11-25-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrenFGun

Again, I never said we should fire Herrion (this year). I'll reserve judgment. His recruiting is getting better.

But come on ... "crushing academic standards?" ... really?

I'll say this. I think if you took the group of players Herrion assembled and you let Pikiell, Brown, Becker, etc. coach them, we'd be 4-1 right now, and maybe 5-0. I don't think we'd shoot more than 5-10 3's a game if we shot as bad as we did, and I don't think Chandler Rhoads and Jordon Bronner would play 35 minutes a game when they can't shoot. I also don't think players who consistently shot 50% from the line would be touching the ball much.

Wren I know UNHAlumCT has tried to explain this to you. You have to trust me on this one. Yes I would say crushing academic standards. When you have kids that want to come that have multiple Div I offers but admissions wont let them in so they go elsewhere in Div I including some to other Aeast schools. I would call that crushing academic standards. They will give Coach Herrion no breaks either way when it comes to having players admitted. Wren you know UNHALUMCT is a legit source of information trust him on this one if you don't believe me. I want UNH to win just as bad as any fan on this board or in the state of NH. But as I have attended more events and met people I have learned a lot that has opened my eyes to what it is like at UNH hence my drinking kool-aid and trying to get everyone to join me for a glass. This team is going to turn the corner but changing the system completly and playing young guys it doesnt happen all at once. We finally have pieces do we have that stud superstar probably not but maybe Konan or Pelcher could become that guy.

Once again though Wren I ask you if your the AD and after this year you decide to fire Herrion who is on that short list.

WrenFGun · 11-25-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

Wren I know UNHAlumCT has tried to explain this to you. You have to trust me on this one. Yes I would say crushing academic standards. When you have kids that want to come that have multiple Div I offers but admissions wont let them in so they go elsewhere in Div I including some to other Aeast schools. I would call that crushing academic standards. They will give Coach Herrion no breaks either way when it comes to having players admitted. Wren you know UNHALUMCT is a legit source of information trust him on this one if you don't believe me. I want UNH to win just as bad as any fan on this board or in the state of NH. But as I have attended more events and met people I have learned a lot that has opened my eyes to what it is like at UNH hence my drinking kool-aid and trying to get everyone to join me for a glass. This team is going to turn the corner but changing the system completly and playing young guys it doesnt happen all at once. We finally have pieces do we have that stud superstar probably not but maybe Konan or Pelcher could become that guy.

Once again though Wren I ask you if your the AD and after this year you decide to fire Herrion who is on that short list.

I wouldn't fire Herrion until after the season, and only if he refuses to make the adjustments necessary to make improvements. Trust me, I believe that there is a thing with recruiting that makes it not a level playing field ... but trust me, it's not "hard" to get into UNH. It's a quality state school ... it's not Duke. There should be PLENTY of players out there that we don't need to bend admissions for, and I've said this a lot of times, but we should be focusing on players that can actually get into the school.

I'm not pointing to admissions, though. I think there's enough talent on this team to finish at or near the top of the conference, so clearly, Herrion is doing something right. I don't think there's any reason to bicker about admissions because the talent is improving. My problem is exactly what others have said ... the talent that can win games is not getting the ball enough. Honestly, Pelcher should get the ball in the post everytime. Myrick should touch the ball in a position to slash constantly, and so should Konan. Morris or Orozco should be on the floor constantly to space things out.

I don't think recruiting is really the problem, honestly.

NotDeadYet · 11-25-2012, 05:58 PM

I can't see player quality as being UNH's problem. If Rhodes goes 1 for 11, it's a coaching problem that it wasn't 1 for 3.

uvm4life20 · 11-26-2012, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

You must remember about Ferg Myrick is that he had a serious knee injury his sophmore year in Durham and was still getting right last year. Patrick Konan couldnt stay on the floor last year do to him being in foul trouble. Not sure how you can blame either on Coach Herrion. In terms of Rhoads I don't think they treat him like a superstar but Herrion does love how hard he plays and the way he really guards you. The guy has been first team America East defense the past two years. I think you see Herrion this year trying to run an offense that better matches his personal, they now look to go inside, are attempting to push the ball up the floor. This is a different basketball team but it takes time after for the past three years being an outside shooting team that if the 3 ball was on they beat you and if not we know what happened. The 3 losses had nothing to do with Herrion's offense but more so with their ability to rebound, shoot foul shots and at times play good d. Herrion is trying to fix a program that has been awful since the early 1900s hence it has taken him 8 years to finally get the talent and pieces where they can be competive everynight. They have that now, they can compete every night but now they have to learn how to win. The FT's is a mental thing for these guys and that is tough to get over. I truly believe Herrion has them ready to take that next step this year it has only been five games come on let's judge this once they have been through conference play once please. In terms of Herrion being fired I don't see it and wouldnt be surprised to see an extension get done in the off season.

I'm not sure how many times you have said it's not Herrion's fault. IF it's not herrion's fault than it's the players fault which makes it Herrion's fault for recruiting those players. You can try to play it off on Herrion all you want. Sure they have had some tough injuries but hasn't everybody.

I think it's rediculous that Herrion still has a job. The past couple recruiting classes have been pathetic. Ferg Myrick is the only acceptable recruit that isn't a transfer. Rhoads would make a good role player off the bench. Bronner is an acceptable back up pg....... I guess. That's 1 starter and 2 back ups recruited in a three year period with only 1 current freshmen looking like they will be ok. The lack of talent in UNH is rediculous right now. Pelcher and Konan were two good transfers. I've named 6 players worth mentioning is there anyone else? Herrion has two good recruits coming next year but at this point it's too little too late.

UNHFan · 11-26-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrenFGun

I wouldn't fire Herrion until after the season, and only if he refuses to make the adjustments necessary to make improvements. Trust me, I believe that there is a thing with recruiting that makes it not a level playing field ... but trust me, it's not "hard" to get into UNH. It's a quality state school ... it's not Duke. There should be PLENTY of players out there that we don't need to bend admissions for, and I've said this a lot of times, but we should be focusing on players that can actually get into the school.

I'm not pointing to admissions, though. I think there's enough talent on this team to finish at or near the top of the conference, so clearly, Herrion is doing something right. I don't think there's any reason to bicker about admissions because the talent is improving. My problem is exactly what others have said ... the talent that can win games is not getting the ball enough. Honestly, Pelcher should get the ball in the post everytime. Myrick should touch the ball in a position to slash constantly, and so should Konan. Morris or Orozco should be on the floor constantly to space things out.

I don't think recruiting is really the problem, honestly.

Wren your like Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde here buddy! Usually your screaming at the top of your lungs to fire Herrion. Now your giving him some credit and talking about keeping him on. Wow! It's a crazy world we live in.

UNHFan · 11-26-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uvm4life20

I'm not sure how many times you have said it's not Herrion's fault. IF it's not herrion's fault than it's the players fault which makes it Herrion's fault for recruiting those players. You can try to play it off on Herrion all you want. Sure they have had some tough injuries but hasn't everybody.

I think it's rediculous that Herrion still has a job. The past couple recruiting classes have been pathetic. Ferg Myrick is the only acceptable recruit that isn't a transfer. Rhoads would make a good role player off the bench. Bronner is an acceptable back up pg....... I guess. That's 1 starter and 2 back ups recruited in a three year period with only 1 current freshmen looking like they will be ok. The lack of talent in UNH is rediculous right now. Pelcher and Konan were two good transfers. I've named 6 players worth mentioning is there anyone else? Herrion has two good recruits coming next year but at this point it's too little too late.

UVM4life my friend thank you for taking the time to respond to my post about Coach Herrion. Let me attempt to answer the many questions you brought up in your post. If Herrion was recruiting under the same guidelines as all of the other America East Schools then I would support your logic. But when players can be cleared by the NCAA, the America East and still not be allowed into UNH I believe your logic goes out the window. Please correct me as I'm sure someone on this board will if I'm wrong but isn't Rhoads a two time 1st team all defensive player? He is a guy I love starting but I do agree with those that post that he shoots to much. I love the line up of the following players...

PG: Rhoads (SR Herrion Recruit)
SG: Orozco (Fresh Herrion Recruit)
SF: Patrick Konan (JR Herrion brought in as a transfer

Thank you Radar for the help in that)
PF: Ferg Myrick (SR Herrion Recruit)
C: Christopher Pelecher (JR. Herrion transfer but was recruited out of high school by UNH

In this line-up Rhoads is the 5th option which he truly should be most nights. Now in terms of Herrion's recruiting I love the past two classes...

2012

SG: Chris Orozco NJ
SF: Frank Okeke TX
PF: Logan Mortenson Utah

2013: (3 scholarships left)
PG: Daniel Jackson TX
SF: John Edwards Brewster Academy

I'm very impressed with those and names of other players they're involved in for the spring signing period. In terms of the team they have now I'm not sure 1-12 besides Tommy MacDonald (football coaches son) where there is a player on that roster that is not a Div I player. I like this team a lot and truly believe it has been a bit rough for the following reasons...

1. Playing 5 of 6 on the road
2. Learning a new system and trying to break bad habits
3. Coach and the staff attempting to find a rotation and playing more guys then they usually do.

I do look forward to any and all responses as I truly look forward to discussing UNH hoops but sadly got to head back and get some paperwork done for tomorrow

Blakely4Prez · 11-26-2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

UVM4life my friend thank you for taking the time to respond to my post about Coach Herrion. Let me attempt to answer the many questions you brought up in your post. If Herrion was recruiting under the same guidelines as all of the other America East Schools then I would support your logic. But when players can be cleared by the NCAA, the America East and still not be allowed into UNH I believe your logic goes out the window. (

Please list me from the last 2-3 years players you know who were not admitted into UNH that went elsewhere that you know of and list where they ended up going? I'm curious who else they could have had that would make them better.

uvm4life20 · 11-27-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

UVM4life my friend thank you for taking the time to respond to my post about Coach Herrion. Let me attempt to answer the many questions you brought up in your post. If Herrion was recruiting under the same guidelines as all of the other America East Schools then I would support your logic. But when players can be cleared by the NCAA, the America East and still not be allowed into UNH I believe your logic goes out the window. Please correct me as I'm sure someone on this board will if I'm wrong but isn't Rhoads a two time 1st team all defensive player? He is a guy I love starting but I do agree with those that post that he shoots to much. I love the line up of the following players...

PG: Rhoads (SR Herrion Recruit)
SG: Orozco (Fresh Herrion Recruit)
SF: Patrick Konan (JR Herrion brought in as a transfer

Thank you Radar for the help in that)
PF: Ferg Myrick (SR Herrion Recruit)
C: Christopher Pelecher (JR. Herrion transfer but was recruited out of high school by UNH

In this line-up Rhoads is the 5th option which he truly should be most nights. Now in terms of Herrion's recruiting I love the past two classes...

2012

SG: Chris Orozco NJ
SF: Frank Okeke TX
PF: Logan Mortenson Utah

2013: (3 scholarships left)
PG: Daniel Jackson TX
SF: John Edwards Brewster Academy

I'm very impressed with those and names of other players they're involved in for the spring signing period. In terms of the team they have now I'm not sure 1-12 besides Tommy MacDonald (football coaches son) where there is a player on that roster that is not a Div I player. I like this team a lot and truly believe it has been a bit rough for the following reasons...

1. Playing 5 of 6 on the road
2. Learning a new system and trying to break bad habits
3. Coach and the staff attempting to find a rotation and playing more guys then they usually do.

I do look forward to any and all responses as I truly look forward to discussing UNH hoops but sadly got to head back and get some paperwork done for tomorrow

You listed your ideal starting line up. Orozco should not be starting as a freshmen. The fact that he is and thats the best they have shows the lack of talent at UNH. The starting 5 looks ok after that. It def doesn't look great. UNH has no bench though and minimal talent. There are a lot more players on UNH that are not d1 players. I wonder how many of the bench players got multiple d1 offers and from who.

Maybe the freshmen will pan out. It's too early to tell. right now UNH does not have a top 4 recruiting class. SBU, UVM, UMBC, and BU all have better freshmen recruiting classes. You could argue bing is better and possibly Hartford. You say you really like this freshmen class but it's not in the top half of the league which makes it seem like UNH will continue to be mediocre. IF these kids were so good you would think they would get quality minutes and put up some numbers with UNH's depth being as poor as it is. The team is full of juniors and seniors and they are still trying to break bad habits. Herrion cant get through to these kids. Rhoads is still shooting too much.

You can also try blame the academic standards all you want but there are teams out there with tougher standards that still recruit well. There are plenty of kids who could get into UNH but chooose to go to other schools. IF herrion has all these kids get denied then he is recruiting the wrong kind of kids for UNH. You think after 8 years he would reallize what kids can and can't get into UNH.

Blakely4Prez · 11-27-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uvm4life20

You can also try blame the academic standards all you want but there are teams out there with tougher standards that still recruit well. There are plenty of kids who could get into UNH but chooose to go to other schools. IF herrion has all these kids get denied then he is recruiting the wrong kind of kids for UNH. You think after 8 years he would reallize what kids can and can't get into UNH.

This is a great comment. I'm surprised no one else has said this before. I've been around this board for several years now and I think it's been the last 3 years now that a few UNH posters have used the "It's not Herrion's fault, its the academic standards fault" excuse. As long as there are teams in the IVY and the Patriot League that are better than UNH and many other schools in the AE, this isn't a great excuse for an 8th year (or however long he's been there) coach. He knows what he is dealing with in terms of admissions so he needs to be going after kids he knows will get admitted. That is part of recruiting. UVM recruits some kids above the AE, but always has AE level players they look at. If they only looked at players that were A-10 and fringe BCS level, they'd have awful recruiting class cause most likely all of those kids would have higher aspirations.

fast789 · 11-27-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blakely4Prez

This is a great comment. I'm surprised no one else has said this before.

You obviously don't read this board a lot. It's been said a ton.

11-25-2012, 04:57 PM	#79 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,416 Rep Power: 62496	Re: AE Gameday 11/24 And to be clear I have no interest in whether Herrion gets fired or coaches at UNH another 15 years. No dog in that fight. I'm simply a third party stating what I see when I have watched UNH play under Herrion. UNH's offense actually reminds me a lot of Tom Brennan's UVM coached teams from mid-late 90s. Just bomb 3s and hope they go in. Of course we had better shooters, but it's not a winning strategy. It will produce 12-16, 11-17, maybe 15-14 seasons. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

11-25-2012, 05:58 PM	#83 (permalink)
NotDeadYet Player Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Burlington, VT Posts: 874 Rep Power: 35420	Re: AE Gameday 11/24 I can't see player quality as being UNH's problem. If Rhodes goes 1 for 11, it's a coaching problem that it wasn't 1 for 3.

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