UNHFan

Good Evening UVM4life thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. I'm curious as to why is it a bad thing if a freshmen starts? I would love to hear your thoughts on who is and who is not a div I player on UNH please don't include Tommy MacDonald we all know that he is not. You mention that SBU, UVM (shocking), UMBC, and BU all have better freshmen classes than UNH. What is this based on sir? Are we talking about rankings from recruiting sites because we all know how accurate those are especially for a one bid conference like the America East. Do you mean the 2012 class or the 2013 class?

In terms of the academic requirements you're correct that Patriot League and Ivy League schools have higher standards than UNH but no other Aeast school does. I would agree with you that after 8 years that Herrion should realize what kids can and cant get into UNH but what happens if decisions are made on a case by case basis. What if student a gets in but for some reason they don't let student B in. With this Jeckel and Hyde approach to admissions how can you blame Herrion? By the way this is what is going on.

Well sir I do look forward to your insight and thoughts on the Wildcat basketball program and furthering our deep discussion.

UNHFan

Ahhh Mr. Blakely4Prez good evening sir and thank you for taking time out of your schedule to respond to one of my earlier posts. On a sidenote did Marcus make the Clippers this year? If I'm correct he was a training campe invite was he not? I believe the golden rule of a messageboard is that you share some but not everything when it comes from a source within the program. With that being said I stand by what I state earlier about the players that said yes we want to come to UNH but admissions denied them acceptance. Well probably not the answer you wanted but the answer I have to give sir. If at a later time it is ok for me to pubically state the players and institutions they ended up at I will do so. Best of luck to you and all of Catamount Nation this year!

UNHFan

Young fast I'm surprised to see you support this line of reasoning that the higher academic standards does not affect UNH's recruiting. Sir please use the skills you acquired while at UNH to dig around and see that this is as true a statement as President Barack Obama will be our president for four more years. Fast your better than this don't let the negativity get to you on this board. Join those of us that know what is going on at UNH.

uvm4life20

It's not just from recruiting sites but multiple opionions from multiple people. You can also look at their production so far. Other AE freshmen are producing a lot more than the UNH freshmen and they play on better teams. There is nothing wrong with starting a freshmen. There is though with starting Orozco as a freshmen. He is just not ready and his production shows that.

Matagrano, jones, morris, Tommy, and trotman are poor excuses for D1 players. I'm sure Morris has his role as a shooter but he is sooo limited with the rest of his game. Sometimes you have to settle for back up centers like Matagrano I understand that. The other two freshmen I can't really say much on but it certainly doesnt seem like they are diaper dandies.

UNH fan who do you think UNH has a better 2012 recruiting class than in the AE? I'm also still waiting to hear some of the recruits that UNH has gotten recently and what other offers they picked up. I'm not suprised they got a decent 2013 class so far because those players have all the playing time they want in front of them.

If Herrion has to go through Jeckel and Hyde with admissions I would suggest going with more the Jeckel and less of the Hyde. Like previously mention UVM goes after players in prolly can't get as well but it also goes after players it can get so when the big names don't work out they are still bringing in talent. I guess Herrion is just going after players he can't get with no alternative plans.

Using your logic with UNH, UNH should be better than Patriot league schools and Ivy schools because they have easier academic standards. It's rediculous to use that as your crutch. Are you little gimpy from the standards .... maybe, but you can still compete and walk fine. Why don't you use the same logic when comparing UNH to other schools in other leagues?

I've also heard you want people to name people who can do a better job than Herrion. The list is endless. Who these people are who would take the job IDK. It's not certain the next guy who gets the job will do better but it's worth taking the chance. There are plenty of young inexperienced basketball minds out there that could do a better job. I think most of them could get through to Rhoads not to shoot. It's called benching.

WrenFGun

I love your optimism, and yes, maybe our standards are slightly out of line with the AEast, but it should not be impacting us the way I think you're claiming it is. Lets stop trying to go after players who might get in and get some who will get in. I think maybe if we stopped walking that line we might get players who are better from a basketball IQ perspective, since ours is easily the worst in the conference and maybe the NCAA.

__________________
Please fire Bill Herrion.

uvm4life20

UNHfan I like how you greet people you talk to on here. I just don't understand something. Why is there something wrong with naming the players that wanted to go to UNH but didnt meet the standards? It would make UNH look better by claiming these people wanted to go to UNH but it obviously can't be proven. Do you consider it a knock on these players because I see nothing wrong with somebody not being able to get in. Not everyone is a scholar. Naming these players doesn't look bad on UNH's part at all. It makes them look good.

Alumni96

UNHfan... If Maine doesn't fire Woodward at the end of the season, maybe you could poach a certain assistant coach from that staff. He seems to be able to locate talent from unusual sources.

UNHFan

Uvm4life how are you on this fine November evening. As always I appreciate you taking the time to express your thoughts on Coach Herrion and the Wildcat basketball program. Wow a lot of topics you bring up this evening my friend I'm guessing someone had some time free at work, let me see if I can aide you with some answers to the many questions that you have brought up. Sadly though I'm going to begin with a question back to you. Through all of five games based on stats you have decided that Orozco is not ready to start. What types of statistics would justify to you him starting? As I'm sure we both know from our college days anyone can take any statistic and make it work for your argument.

Now in terms of to use your words my friend poor excuse for Div I players. I thought this would be an easy one as we can both agree that Tommy MacDonald is not a Div I player and heck doesnt even get a scholarship as he is a walk on due to his father being the football coach. In terms of Garret JOnes who has left the UNH basketball program due to his lack of playing time, I'm not sure we saw a large enough sample size to be able to say that he is not a Div I player. May he be a late bloomer and go somewhere else and have a great career? Now Matagrano, Morris and Trotman I do tend to disagree with you on these three. Matagrano is a fine back up for a center and had other Div I offers. Scott Morris is what he is, he is a Div I player but he is a old school shooter, he is not the typical flashy athletic sg/wing that you see at most Div I schools. He is probably a guy that you think about for the Ivies based on his grades and playing style. Trotman I'm not sure how he is not a Div I player as he was recruited by multiple schools out of high school and while undersized is the type of player that fits in well at this level.

In terms of recruiting classes my dear friend I'm not as familar nor am I'm going to attempt to pretend that I am about other schools recruiting classes. My focus is on UNH and that program. I say let's watch a full season, some of these kids go head to head before we make judgements. In my opinion I like the freshmen Herrion has brought in, from reading your posts I'm beginning to believe that no matter what Herrion does he is going to be awful.

In terms of Herrion's recruiting plan I would love to see him get lucky like UVM did and have a TJ and Taylor fall in their lap and see if they can match the success of your Catamounts. Because lets be honest here before those two players fell into your lap there really was no Catamount Nation or whatever you folks call yourselves. When I do speak with Coach Herrion I will pass along your suggestions to him on how to recruit

Maybe I have had a long day of work but am not sure I get your point about why I don't compare UNH's standards to the other Aeast schools? I would love to as that would clearly show my point that the other Aeast schools have an easier time recruiting then does UNH. The problem my friend with you saying that UNH should have it easier than the IVies and the Patriot League is that when it comes to those type of players there going to choose the best education they can get which is the Ivies followed by JV of the ivies the Patriot League usually over a state school.

Now in terms of a replacement for Herrion you give me the vague comment of any young guy? Now UVm4life my friend you take time out of your day to write me these long responses and with this question the best I get is a young coach. My friend your better than this. There are not five names that you can come up with that you think could do a better job then Billy Herrion? I'm not sure how Marty could advertise for the job? Would he say looking for a young assistant that is better than Billy. Do we go with a Div I assistant, an Ivy league guy, Div II and III which we have tried before heck I think we have tried it all before. Give me some names my friend. Let me be able to research your names so I can give you my honest opinion. Truly what I think Billy needs is what UVM got which is lucky and look at where they are now.

My friend I do look foward to continuing our conversation and really appreciate the thoughts of Catamount Nation as I never knew you folks spent this time thinking about us over here in Durham.

UNHFan

Wren I don't know who you are anymore? Where is the angry bitter young man that was ready to fire Coach Herrion and hire anyone in the world to run our program. Are you finally admitting that our admissions has hindered Coach Herrion or am I just tired after correcting papers? How does Herrion follow your thought process when admissions is not clear on what it takes to get in? Come on Wren do some digging my friend join me and UNHALUMCT on the darkside join us in wanting Herrion to have a equal playing filed with the other Aeast schools and then we can fairly judge him.

UNHFan

Good Evening Alumni96,

An interesting idea I assume your talking about the Associate Head Coach of the mighty Black Bears. But can you see Maine actually firing Woodward? And I don't see Marty firing Herrion.

WrenFGun

Oy. Agree to disagree. Yes, there are clearly recruiting inequities. No, I still do not think he's doing a very good job, because I don't think the recruiting is the central problem. I think the coaching decisions he makes are.

__________________
Please fire Bill Herrion.

Blakely4Prez

...whats the word I'm looking for here coming from the guy who just wrote 3 posts in a row including this long one...hypocritical much?

UNHFan

Blakely4Prez good evening my friend. Why the tough words? I wrote those post at about 9:00pm last night after I had finished my evening paperwork! Be well my friend!

uvm4life20

UNH fan good evening my friend.

Let's first get to these back up players UNH has. They are D1 players. That's because they play d1. There talent level though isnt really d1. They are poor D1 players. You can say different but the stats and eye test disagree with you. Orozco shouldnt be a starter as a freshmen. He wouldnt start on the majority of D1 teams as a freshmen. He hasnt played well enough to earn a starting spot. He starts on UNH because of the lack of talent there. I didn't list any stats on why Orozco shouldnt start so I didnt try to twist any stats around. I dont see you though giving me any stats on why he should start besides the fact that the other option isnt really better.

You say UNHfan that you don't know anything about the other recruiting classes in the AE. That should say enough on how you really cant comment on how good UNH's class is. UNH can get a bunch of good players but IF every other AE team is recruiting better players than UNH's recruiting class isn't good. IF UNH always has a bottom half recruiting class in the AE then they will never be more than mediocre. You and Herrion can think they have a good recruiting class all you guys want. When most people though think the other AE teams have better recruiting classes it doesnt matter how good UNH class is. It's still not GOOD ENOUGH to be more than mediocre.
I'm still waiting UNH fan for you to give me these good recruits UNH has and what other offers they have received. Since I asked you this question before you asked me to come up with names of coaches who can do better than Herrion I think its only fair for you to respond to my question first. I think what says the most about a recruit is the other offers they receive. Of course late bloomers and early signers don't necessarily get all the offers they deserve but it paints a fair enough picture. Most people think Reed, O'day, Warney, Watson, Papale, Hooley are going to be very good players. I havent heard a non UNH fan comment on how good Orozco is going to be.

I have nothing against Herrion but the results speak for themselves. As far as coaches go that could do better I will wait until you answer these good recruits and what offers they get question. A quick answer though is look at the other canidates for the UVM job that didnt get it. I would rather have those guys than a guy who continues to fail 7 years in a row soon to be 8.

As far as UVM having players land in there lap. UVM nation wasnt that strong but they were a lot better than what UNH has right now. UVM had winning seasons 4-7 years before Sorrentine stepped on campus and had players come to the program like Roberson, Benton, Orciari, and Gaines. UNH under Herrion has had 0 winning season in 7 years and no players like the one's mentioned. Maybe after UNH has winning seasons 4-7 years and has a player like Gaines on their team they will be able to recruit a Sorrentine. Sorrentine was only a freshmen when UVM won 20 games. They had enough talent around Sorrentine his freshmen year to do that. You need to make a program attractive enough to land big time recruits. I think when recruits see that Herrion has not had a winning season at UNH in all of his 7 years that scares them away.

Back to your logic about UNH recruiting standards. UNH has a smaller pool to pick from with players because of their academic standards. Ivy leagues and Patriot schools have an even smaller pool to pick from. Is it the attractiveness of a school or the pool they pick from that matters more. I think the attractiveness of a school matters more and a coach like Herrion who keeps on losing just isnt that attractive. The pool size has less affect on recruiting and some Ivy and patriot schools are proving that.

This is a lot to digest I'm sure so feel free to just respond to portions at a time. I'm a huge UVM fan and follow the AE. I could def talk about the AE and especially UVM more than I do.

UNHFan

UVM4life how are things in the beautiful Green Mountain state this fine morning. As always I enjoy your posts about my beloved UNH Wildcats and hope to add something to this discussion on this cold snowy morning. In terms of Mr. Orozco and he should not be starting due to the eye test. My friend I'm familar with the eye test when I have my four month check up but what is the eye test for basketball that you speak of? Orzco wouldnt start for half of the DIv I teams out there? Really, well everyone is entitled to their opinon. Your right in terms of I can not publish stats that say Orozco should be starting but then again I'm not at every practice seeing what the coaching staff sees day in an day out. So I assume if they start him it is for what he has earned in practice. Now I am confused as to how do other kids start as freshmen sometimes on very good teams from day one with no stats to back them up? Are these coaches using their high school stats? You will need to clairfy this for me my friend.

In terms of the UNH recruiting class I take it your argument is a lot of people think UNH's classes isnt as good as everyone else so it is not. Please remember my friend many people thought Mitt Romney was going to be elected presdient and we all know how that worked out. But being a guy from Vermont I would assume sir you stand with President Obama!

In terms of these players I choose to keep that to my vest for now my dear friend. I received that information from a source I want to keep me in the loop about the UNH Basketball program. In terms of any of the other coaches for UVM being there for UNH nothing there excited me and I was surprised at not a lot of quality interest in the UVM program. If UNH decides Herrion needs to go I think we need some one with a background from a Patriot League or IVY league school that knows how tough it is to recruit at a school that puts a value on academics before all else.

In terms of recruiting. Am I correct in that TJ's only other option was a DIV II school or was that Mike Tromboli? Let's be honest here you got lucky with Tyalor falling into your laps and had no idea how that would work out. Many people missed the boat on him for whatever reason but your team was consistantly stuck in the middle for years of the Tommy Brennan era which was what 15-16 years of being mediocore until he got lucky with Taylor and TJ? Let's be honest Herrion is not going away and I think we need to let the season play out especially the conference season and see where the Cats are. Well my friend I hope this response finds you well and warm on this cold winter day!