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Old 01-08-2013, 12:13 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

And don't forget about about how difficult scheduling will get for the AE by waiting.

Right now the 12-team NEC plays an 18-game league slate. Each team plays 7 schools home/home, and the remianing 4 once each. While unbalnced, it is a great Thurs-Sat setup with 6 sets of "travel pairs"

The soon to be 11-team MAAC is going to a full home/home 20-game round robin schedule. They currently have the best conference RPI in the region and can be more selective in their non-conf scheduling.
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...0047294235.txt

If nothing changes, next year the 10-member NEC will still play an 18 game schule - a true home/home round robin.

Whereas, the 8-team America East has a 14-game conference schedule. If you think finding non-conference games was hard this year, wait until next year. Also, see what this can do to your RPI if you have to go on the road and take more $$ games. Not good news if you ask me.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:26 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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Originally Posted by Aceinthehole View Post
And don't forget about about how difficult scheduling will get for the AE by waiting.

Right now the 12-team NEC plays an 18-game league slate. Each team plays 7 schools home/home, and the remianing 4 once each. While unbalnced, it is a great Thurs-Sat setup with 6 sets of "travel pairs"

The soon to be 11-team MAAC is going to a full home/home 20-game round robin schedule. They currently have the best conference RPI in the region and can be more selective in their non-conf scheduling.
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...0047294235.txt

If nothing changes, next year the 10-member NEC will still play an 18 game schule - a true home/home round robin.

Whereas, the 8-team America East has a 14-game conference schedule. If you think finding non-conference games was hard this year, wait until next year. Also, see what this can do to your RPI if you have to go on the road and take more $$ games. Not good news if you ask me.
Ace - I really like your insight on the expansion issue. You are so right about scheduling non conference games. It would be so much easier and realistic to schedule 10 ooc games then 16. That is reason enough to expand post haste.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:50 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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Originally Posted by Aceinthehole View Post
And don't forget about about how difficult scheduling will get for the AE by waiting.

Right now the 12-team NEC plays an 18-game league slate. Each team plays 7 schools home/home, and the remianing 4 once each. While unbalnced, it is a great Thurs-Sat setup with 6 sets of "travel pairs"

The soon to be 11-team MAAC is going to a full home/home 20-game round robin schedule. They currently have the best conference RPI in the region and can be more selective in their non-conf scheduling.
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...0047294235.txt

If nothing changes, next year the 10-member NEC will still play an 18 game schule - a true home/home round robin.

Whereas, the 8-team America East has a 14-game conference schedule. If you think finding non-conference games was hard this year, wait until next year. Also, see what this can do to your RPI if you have to go on the road and take more $$ games. Not good news if you ask me.
That is a very good point and one that I hadn't really considered. And with the end of the Bracket Busters, there goes another game that the schools didn't have to worry about. If I were the commissioner, I would be in touch with a couple of these leagues and see about having an interconference challenge much like the Big Ten/ACC Challenge. I know a couple of schools would have to sit out, but that could be worked around...or, better yet (and what the Big Ten/Big XII women did) you have a couple of schools in the AEast play 2 games vs the other conference. Someone like Maine, who has a hard enough time scheduling, could play host to Rider and then travel to Fairfield or something along those lines. Shoot, those were usually the group of teams we played in the BB anyway so why not, ya know?
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:52 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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Conference Realignment is a ladder and it has a hierarchy. The Big East is still above C-USA and the MAC, but we know it is below the ACC, Big12, etc. The CAA has already taken 5 AE teams in the past, what dynamic would anyone think change that trend?
Conferences switch places on the "ladder" all the time. AEC was ahead of the CAA after they lost Richmond/American/ECU and voted against raiding the CAA... leading to the CAA turning the tables. In the ECAC days, ECAC-Metro was above the ECAC-South... they're now the NEC and CAA, respectively. This stuff is fluid.

We've all watched the WAC fall from 2nd in the west to the bottom team in the whole of the NCAA, highlighted most recently by losing a team to the Summit (former Mid-Con), the former bottom conference in the national pecking order. They were also raided by the Sun Belt, the conference they most commonly raided over the last decade or so. This can happen in any region, even ours. Remember the ECC? They were above AEC in the mid-80s and by the early 90s, AEC and the Patriot picked them clean.

The former top conference in the region is disintegrating (Big East), the next 2 expect to be raided (A-10 & CAA). On the next tier, there are 4 conferences with well established demographic focuses that seem to have little overlap: one is the most stable conference in the country (Ivy), 2 have shown a willingness to shift slightly from their previous demographics in order to be proactive and get stronger (Patriot & MAAC), and 1 has chosen to be completely reactive (AEC). The current & longstanding (but not perpetual) doormat in the region is unquestionably wounded (NEC). That's the current perceived order, right? That doesn't seem to be written in stone. One multi-school raid and the AEC could slip behind even the NEC, and the last conference doesn't always make it back.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:45 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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Conferences switch places on the "ladder" all the time. AEC was ahead of the CAA after they lost Richmond/American/ECU and voted against raiding the CAA... leading to the CAA turning the tables. In the ECAC days, ECAC-Metro was above the ECAC-South... they're now the NEC and CAA, respectively. This stuff is fluid.

We've all watched the WAC fall from 2nd in the west to the bottom team in the whole of the NCAA, highlighted most recently by losing a team to the Summit (former Mid-Con), the former bottom conference in the national pecking order. They were also raided by the Sun Belt, the conference they most commonly raided over the last decade or so. This can happen in any region, even ours. Remember the ECC? They were above AEC in the mid-80s and by the early 90s, AEC and the Patriot picked them clean.

The former top conference in the region is disintegrating (Big East), the next 2 expect to be raided (A-10 & CAA). On the next tier, there are 4 conferences with well established demographic focuses that seem to have little overlap: one is the most stable conference in the country (Ivy), 2 have shown a willingness to shift slightly from their previous demographics in order to be proactive and get stronger (Patriot & MAAC), and 1 has chosen to be completely reactive (AEC). The current & longstanding (but not perpetual) doormat in the region is unquestionably wounded (NEC). That's the current perceived order, right? That doesn't seem to be written in stone. One multi-school raid and the AEC could slip behind even the NEC, and the last conference doesn't always make it back.
Good points and nice examples. Based on numerous factors, you'd be hard pressed for me or many observers to say the NEC is actually below the AE. The past few years the NEC RPI and its top teams like RMU and LIU have certainly put them on par or better than the AE. Not to mention the NEC is still a 10-team league whereas the AE is down to just 8 members. However, your point overall is still very much valid.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:50 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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Good points and nice examples. Based on numerous factors, you'd be hard pressed for me or many observers to say the NEC is actually below the AE. The past few years the NEC RPI and its top teams like RMU and LIU have certainly put them on par or better than the AE. Not to mention the NEC is still a 10-team league whereas the AE is down to just 8 members. However, your point overall is still very much valid.
Every observer who looks at the situation impartially will say the AEC is better because it is made of much better institutions. I'd be hard pressed to make any one-for-one trade with the NEC. Short term conference RPI comparisons is meaningless and shows a lack of understanding of the situation. This is why the CAA-AEC RPI thread is basically a waste of time in the long term scheme of things. The NEC only could pass AEC through stability and critical numbers. The situation you envision wherein NEC passes AEC in their current forms on a qualitative basis of any kind is ridiculous. You complimented me by agreeing with my point while missing the only basis upon which a swap in the placement of NEC and AEC was possible, a fundamental change in conference makeup predicated on a conference shift which has yet to occur. It is remarkable.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:50 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

Man, looks like the "Catholic 7" are going to finally get their share of the pie: Fox offering $500 million over 12 years for broadcasting rights fees...and it appears as thought those 7 will keep a little more of that money than the ones they invite in. Either way, they will be close to doubling their current $1.5 million/year payout with the current Big East deal.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ioners-sources
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:01 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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Man, looks like the "Catholic 7" are going to finally get their share of the pie: Fox offering $500 million over 12 years for broadcasting rights fees...and it appears as thought those 7 will keep a little more of that money than the ones they invite in. Either way, they will be close to doubling their current $1.5 million/year payout with the current Big East deal.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ioners-sources
It is certainly impressive money, but the C7 will have to be quite the negotiators to convince the new entrants to accept second-class status when the big TV money is based on getting some additional schools to join.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:30 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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It is certainly impressive money, but the C7 will have to be quite the negotiators to convince the new entrants to accept second-class status when the big TV money is based on getting some additional schools to join.

Not really...if A-10 members are only getting roughly $350K/year right now from a TV deal, I would think just adding a '1' to the front of that would make them jump at the chance...I mean, $1.3 million vs $350k is a pretty big jump for a Butler, Xavier, Dayton, etc considering what they get now. Plus, to join a league that has Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette will certainly result in more prestige as well.

Edit - I would also assume there would probably be some language in there that bumps them all up to equal after a certain number of years. I mean, after all, the 7 schools have taken it upon themselves to create this league, taking all the risk, fronting all the money and doing all the work...that has to be worth something, no?
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:39 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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Not really...if A-10 members are only getting roughly $350K/year right now from a TV deal, I would think just adding a '1' to the front of that would make them jump at the chance...I mean, $1.3 million vs $350k is a pretty big jump for a Butler, Xavier, Dayton, etc considering what they get now. Plus, to join a league that has Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette will certainly result in more prestige as well.

Edit - I would also assume there would probably be some language in there that bumps them all up to equal after a certain number of years. I mean, after all, the 7 schools have taken it upon themselves to create this league, taking all the risk, fronting all the money and doing all the work...that has to be worth something, no?
We are in complete agreement I think. New joiners can't accept second class status forever, but the original risk-takers are worthy of some additional compensation for having taken the risk/initiative to get things rolling.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:41 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

They also said 5 schools will be added. I'm guessing they will add catholic schools. Which teams are considered locks and which team are considered possible adds?
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:56 AM   #87 (permalink)
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They also said 5 schools will be added. I'm guessing they will add catholic schools. Which teams are considered locks and which team are considered possible adds?
It doesn't look like it's going to be restricted to just Catholic schools, but definitely smaller schools in general. Here in Indiana, there has been much speculation since that announcement that Butler is basically gone to that new league and could just end up a one-and-done member of the A-10.

Anyway, seems as though it looks like Butler, Xavier, St. Louis and Dayton are pretty close to locks if it goes to 12..at that point, not sure. Creighton & VCU are the 2 that have been mentioned the most...each has their positives and negatives. I'm sure there are probably others as well...
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:11 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

VCU would really shock me. I don't think the additions all have to be Catholic, but adding a big public like that would be suprising. IMO - Creighton or Richmond fit the "mold" a little better.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:31 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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VCU would really shock me. I don't think the additions all have to be Catholic, but adding a big public like that would be suprising. IMO - Creighton or Richmond fit the "mold" a little better.
I have heard Richmond as well...argument I keep hearing about VCU is the fact that their recent success could really help to serve as a key springboard for the league not to mention their rather large following. I don't have a clue as to how big their support is, just something I was told.

Another thing someone said but I completely disregard it, is that Notre Dame would have interest, mostly due to relationships with the 7 departing members. But, like I told him, that ain't happening...ND has committed to the ACC and them changing again just isn't an option.

Couple others mentioned but I don't give much credo to are Drake, Bradley and Bucknell.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:39 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Re: Is AE expansion on the way?

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VCU would really shock me. I don't think the additions all have to be Catholic, but adding a big public like that would be suprising. IMO - Creighton or Richmond fit the "mold" a little better.
I think the idea that the schools need to be Catholic is perhaps overblown. Remember, UConn didn't fit the mold of the original Big East but that worked out just fine. VCU is far more attractive to the C7 than Richmond is.
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