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Old 12-31-2012, 04:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

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Originally Posted by TerrierNation View Post
The thing to remember is the NIT does not really want an AE team in its field in the first place. I'm not sure the AE can just dictate to the NIT who its regular season champion is. If BU is tied with another team and holds the tie-breaker than they are the regular season champion. The tournament is a separate animal I would think. Plus that other team that tied them could win the conference tourney in such a scenario making it moot.

I get the AE denying BU access to the tourney because another team is guaranteed to rep the league. But there's no way the league and its schools are spiteful enough to deny BU a spot in the NIT if no one else from the league is eligible. And I can totally see the NIT committee telling the league to pound sand if they start to play games with it. I hope BU has clarification on this point before play starts, although I don't think BU will win the league anyway.
I highlighted the bold part because this is the part that's incorrect. If BU is tied with another team with the best record at the end of the season and won the tie-break then they are considered Co-Champions by the league- not the regular season champion. If BU held the tie break it would be for the #1 seed for the AE Tourney, which they are ineligible for, which also becomes the NIT rep as well. This is where it's not clear what the scenario is involving both the NIT & AE.

You are totally right that the NIT doesn't really want an AE team though, which is why I'm not entirely sure BU would be eligible for the NIT in the event they tied and won the tie break.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

Hypothetical Example:

BU and say Albany both finish 13-3. BU sweeps Albany 2-0 in regular season thereby winning head to head and would get #1 seed. BU ineligible for AE tourney, #1 seed then goes to Albany which IMO will then make Albany the AE rep eligible for the NIT should they not make the NCAA Tournament.

Now if BU goes 14-2 or 15-1 and wins AE outright, then they are the clear regular season champion and get the AE's NIT invite.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:59 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

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i dont see BU as a threat in conference play this year. maybe they can be a spoiler for someone in the tournament. but as they say it doesnt really matter what you do throughout the year for a league like ours. all that matters is that one weekend(and ship game)

Top 5 teams:

Albany
SBU
Hartford
Maine
Vermont
Go ahead and put us 5th which is just plain ignorant. Do I detect a little jealousy because you have never gone to the NCAA's and disappoint every year? You should thank your lucky stars that BU was banned because they are one of the best teams with tons of talent and one of the only teams that could have denied you in your quest for your first NCAA bid. Maine and Hartford have ZERO chance of beating you.

Albany, BU and Vermont can beat you but one of them has been banned. As a result, the SBU hoop program got a lucky break.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

The tie breaker is only for seeding purposes and has no affect on who wins the regular season. Since BU is ineligible they will never get put in a tie breaker because tie breakers are only used to seed teams. I really think they need to win it outright.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:42 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

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I highlighted the bold part because this is the part that's incorrect. If BU is tied with another team with the best record at the end of the season and won the tie-break then they are considered Co-Champions by the league- not the regular season champion. If BU held the tie break it would be for the #1 seed for the AE Tourney, which they are ineligible for, which also becomes the NIT rep as well. This is where it's not clear what the scenario is involving both the NIT & AE.

You are totally right that the NIT doesn't really want an AE team though, which is why I'm not entirely sure BU would be eligible for the NIT in the event they tied and won the tie break.
I think there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of wiggle room on a number of fronts. The NIT homepage says:

Quote:
Selection Process
The NIT Selection Committee will conduct selections for the 2013 Postseason NIT, March 15-17. Any regular-season champion of an NCAA Division I conference (as determined by the conference’s tie-break protocol) not otherwise selected to the NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Championship will secure an automatic qualification into the NIT. The committee will then select the best available teams to fill the 32-team NIT field. Once selected teams are seeded and placed into one of four eight-team regions.
I think you could make an argument that a "CHAMPION" is not necessarily the team that comes in first place or has the best record. Champions are crowned by conferences, based on whatever criteria the conferences themselves develop (i.e. the Ivy not having a tournament). "Regular-season champion" could be pretty easily defined by the conference to be "the conference tournament eligible team with the best record in the regular season." There doesn't seem to be an online version of the America East bylaws in order to read the actual language. But it wouldn't surprise me if there was some hedge room in there, in order to prevent an NCAA tournament ineligible team (like, on probation) from being the conference champion.

I think it is telling that the NIT does not define the teams that get automatic bids as the teams that have the best regular season conference record. Their wording seems to leave it up to the individual conferences to identify their conference champions. It seems to me that the America East could just say "Our conference champion is the number one seed in our conference tournament."

Now, I'm not advocating for screwing BU if they finish with the best record in the conference, but it just seems like a mess if we have a 13-3 BU, 12-4 Stony Brook, and then a 8-8 Vermont wins the conference tournament (not predictions, just examples). BU and SBU will both feel that they have a case to go to the NIT. We need some sort of real journalist to ask the AE what the deal is, so we can all bitch about it now and not when the scenario actually plays out.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:02 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

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Originally Posted by ccd494 View Post
I think there is a SIGNIFICANT amount of wiggle room on a number of fronts. The NIT homepage says:



I think you could make an argument that a "CHAMPION" is not necessarily the team that comes in first place or has the best record. Champions are crowned by conferences, based on whatever criteria the conferences themselves develop (i.e. the Ivy not having a tournament). "Regular-season champion" could be pretty easily defined by the conference to be "the conference tournament eligible team with the best record in the regular season." There doesn't seem to be an online version of the America East bylaws in order to read the actual language. But it wouldn't surprise me if there was some hedge room in there, in order to prevent an NCAA tournament ineligible team (like, on probation) from being the conference champion.

I think it is telling that the NIT does not define the teams that get automatic bids as the teams that have the best regular season conference record. Their wording seems to leave it up to the individual conferences to identify their conference champions. It seems to me that the America East could just say "Our conference champion is the number one seed in our conference tournament."

Now, I'm not advocating for screwing BU if they finish with the best record in the conference, but it just seems like a mess if we have a 13-3 BU, 12-4 Stony Brook, and then a 8-8 Vermont wins the conference tournament (not predictions, just examples). BU and SBU will both feel that they have a case to go to the NIT. We need some sort of real journalist to ask the AE what the deal is, so we can all bitch about it now and not when the scenario actually plays out.
Great post. If BU won the AE outright though I couldn't imagine the league to not claim that as winning the regular season title though.

Final sentence is the key- someone should really ask to get clarification because anything else is speculation at this point.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:04 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

If the AE blocks BU from the NIT in any fashion then that just goes to show what a cracker Jack organization the AE is. With all the conf shuffling taking place the AE is one of the only to ban teams who decide to upgrade. It's funny how the AE has no issue on how BU's wins can help the conf receive a better seeding in the NCAA Tourney possibly because of their RPI. I hope BU runs the table on the AE as payback, and don't think they won't have that in mind when they head to UMO, where their AD was the head of that committee who made that decision.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:18 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

"Any regular-season champion of an NCAA Division I conference (as determined by the conference’s tie-break protocol) not otherwise selected to the NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Championship will secure an automatic qualification into the NIT"- NIT Selection committee (highlighting mine)

Given BU is banned from participating in AE conference tourney only (as far as we've all been told), then I think they would be eligible for the NIT should they win the conference outright. That at least seems clear to me.

Where it's unclear to me, is what happens and there is a tie with BU involved- because what the AE does when two teams tie is call them Co-Regular Season Champions. There is no "tie-break" for the regular season conference champion in the AE. The tie-break is only for seeding in the conference tourney and has also decided the NIT eligible team- but given BU's situation this year if they held the tie-break I would suspect it would mean nothing for them as far as an NIT invite goes.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:30 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

I'm still not sold that a clear #1 BU is the "conference champion." I wouldn't be shocked if the bylaws for the tournament said something about "the regular season conference champion" getting the #1 seed. If you are removing BU from that equation, why not remove them from the entire equation?
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:57 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

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I'm still not sold that a clear #1 BU is the "conference champion." I wouldn't be shocked if the bylaws for the tournament said something about "the regular season conference champion" getting the #1 seed. If you are removing BU from that equation, why not remove them from the entire equation?
I agree we need to see the language as well- but I have a hard time believing if BU goes 16-0 and wins the AE then they wouldn't be called the regular season champion though.

Kinda funny how this summer it was easy to pull up the AE bylaws online, and now I can't find them anywhere
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:00 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

Here's examples of what I've been talking about with respect to ties. Since 1979-80 there have been 5 seasons with Co-Champions- most recent as 2008-09 Bing and UVM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...#Winter_Sports
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:16 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

Given what someone said before -- that the NIT probably doesn't even want an AE representative if one isn't forced upon them -- I could see them using all that wiggle room in the official Selection Process wording to keep us out.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:48 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

[QUOTE=UVM Hoop Cat;7019463]"Any regular-season champion of an NCAA Division I conference (as determined by the conference’s tie-break protocol) not otherwise selected to the NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Championship will secure an automatic qualification into the NIT"- NIT Selection committee (highlighting mine)


Seems clear: If BU wins the regular season outright, they are the NIT selectee.

Seems muddy: If tied then "as determined by the conference's tie break protocol" takes over. Regarding the AE, who the hell knows what that is!!
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:58 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

IF BU is ineligible for the AE tourney than its ineligible for tie breakers because thats a post season thing! right?.....

IF there was no AE postseason there would be no tie breakers.
SO there is no AE postseason for BU so there would be no tie breakers for BU.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:29 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Boston U Conference Play

I think BU's conference record will depend on the play of Dom Morris. If he continues with the 12 & 7 averages on a consistent basis through league play they will definitely finish top 3. They have the most talented backcourt in the league and 2 very good spot up shooters in Robinson and Papale.
Maine is a Jeckyl & Hyde team. When they are playing their best they are capable of beating Stony Brook, Vermont or Albany. They are also capable of losing to Binghamton if they play uninspired like they did against Army & Marist. I'm predicting 8-8 for them.

If I had to predict the final outcome of the standings it would look like this:
1. Stony Brook 13-3
2. Albany 12-4
3. BU 11-5
4. Vermont 10-6
5. Hartford & Maine 8-8
7. UNH 6-10
8. UMBC 5-11
9. Binghamton 3-13
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