Possible Replacements for Herrion if UNH were to make a change - Page 3 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 01-10-2013, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

I'm going to break my silence on here because it's pretty apparent that most people sounding off on TJ either:
1. Simply don't have any inside knowledge on the situation or him as a coach or
2. Have some sort of personal grudge against him, likely because it seems that most fans of programs who have yet to actually make it to the big dance have some sort of d--k envy of players and programs who have experienced success and thus take shots at them.

The reason TJ would deserve a very long, hard look from a program like UNH is multi-faceted:
1. UNH has ZERO resources relative to the rest of the college basketball world: They play in a high school gym, they have zero budget and pay their coaches an extremely low salary compared to most of the basketball ranks, they have tough admissions requirements for players, and most importantly they have ZERO track record of winning: No culture of winning, no fan base, little support.

That means that UNH will not get proven coaches with good track records or "In-demand" applicants. They will be choosing from either:
- Older re-treds who have failed in their recent ventures and are trying to rebuild their careers from smoldering ashes or.
-Young, up and comers who have a lot of energy and may have a high upside, but don't have the resume to garner interest from high profile job openings.

For a program like UNH, which really needs a total overhaul as far as culture, building a fan base, and a serious injection of energy, a young coach would be a much better course of action than a re-tred.

2. T.J.'s back ground is in the Ivy League: He knows how to recruit and deal with tough admissions standards, which are an issue at UNH whether people want to accept it or not.

3. He is a BRILLIANT basketball mind. A lot of people only know him as the "Nah, coach, I got this" cocky gunner on the court, but the guy is a big time student of the game and a tremendous mind.

4. He KNOWS the America East: The AE is a very strange animal when it comes to the kind of players who you can recruit who actually pan out, and he knows the league inside and out. He knows what works and what wins and what doesn't.

5. Energy and Motivation: Not only is he young, with tons and tons of energy - which whoever the next coach, if there is a next coach, will need to for the kind of rebuilding effort at an under funded, under-utilized and under-publicized program - but he is EXTREMELY motivated: By all accounts, he had the Brown job - did a great job of holding the program together, the players loved him, nailed the interviews - until some really powerful alumns leaned all their weight on the hiring committee to higher an alumn as the next coach. He's hungry, he wants to win.

Also, for those who keep going "track record": Brown was definitely in a tough spot in the Ivy league with traditional powers Princeton and Penn, Cornell's emergence, and all of the well covered reasons why Harvard was able to sky-rocket by bringing in recruits who would never before have made it through admittance...

He was also, by all accounts, a coach who enjoyed tremendous loyalty of his players and got the most out of them. Furthermore, Agel - the former head coach - was terminated for reasons - which I will not get into on here - which were not performance related and had absolutely nothing to do with T.J...

In conclusion, UNH is not exactly going to have a wealth of qualified suitors applying for the job, if it were to become available... Sorrentine has the energy and motivation, the basketball mind, a history of recruiting through tough admissions, and he knows the league...

+1,000

All of this. And your final paragraph and all the points you accurately made in favor of TJ, is why in my original post in the thread I'm not even sure if TJ would be interested in the UNH job. It's certainly a job that's not without risk.

lsbal84 · 01-10-2013, 12:21 PM

What an incredibly difficult job it is being a coach.....especially at the D1 level. Your career is literally in the hands of 18-22 year old "kids". Additionally you are judged everyday based on your performance publicly. Thank Goodness I am not judged publicly. Through all the years of my career I have made many blunders and poor judgements. I certainly have made many poor choices in hiring people....and have hired plenty of people that probably would have worked out better if I motivated them in different ways. I would hate for my family/friends and especially my daughter to be able to google my name to read about my daily failures. Somehow your successes, just like in the media, are quickly forgotten. That being said, I guess when you get into the coching profession you know what you are potentially getting into.

nycwolf · 01-10-2013, 01:18 PM

sam i dont have little penis syndrome. the fact is TJ has no record of success to stand on. Enough with this. you like him we get it. everyone likes him. HE HAS NO RECORD OF SUCCESS!!!!! He needs more experience and more success. He probably is a great guy, but being a great guy doesnt get you a job. you need results. Every assistant coach on any AE, NEC, MAAC, CAA... team would jump at the oppurtunity to be a head coach. any one and if they said no they would be lieing or are close to retierment. 85% of college coaches are high energy high motivation guys. Alot of them are basketball minds. For one Jay young is a much better candidate. not saying he should or shouldnt be but on paper he is much better than TJ. Nothing against TJ but Jay has a record of success from new haven to SBU. coahcing, winning, recruiting....

chucky martin went to marist from kentucky, massiello went to manhattan from lousiville, glenn miller went to brown from uconn......the list goes on of coaches going places where winning isnt easy

umainealum · 01-10-2013, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromtheshow

I'm going to break my silence on here because it's pretty apparent that most people sounding off on TJ either:
1. Simply don't have any inside knowledge on the situation or him as a coach or
2. Have some sort of personal grudge against him, likely because it seems that most fans of programs who have yet to actually make it to the big dance have some sort of d--k envy of players and programs who have experienced success and thus take shots at them.

The reason TJ would deserve a very long, hard look from a program like UNH is multi-faceted:
1. UNH has ZERO resources relative to the rest of the college basketball world: They play in a high school gym, they have zero budget and pay their coaches an extremely low salary compared to most of the basketball ranks, they have tough admissions requirements for players, and most importantly they have ZERO track record of winning: No culture of winning, no fan base, little support.

That means that UNH will not get proven coaches with good track records or "In-demand" applicants. They will be choosing from either:
- Older re-treds who have failed in their recent ventures and are trying to rebuild their careers from smoldering ashes or.
-Young, up and comers who have a lot of energy and may have a high upside, but don't have the resume to garner interest from high profile job openings.

For a program like UNH, which really needs a total overhaul as far as culture, building a fan base, and a serious injection of energy, a young coach would be a much better course of action than a re-tred.

2. T.J.'s back ground is in the Ivy League: He knows how to recruit and deal with tough admissions standards, which are an issue at UNH whether people want to accept it or not.

3. He is a BRILLIANT basketball mind. A lot of people only know him as the "Nah, coach, I got this" cocky gunner on the court, but the guy is a big time student of the game and a tremendous mind.

4. He KNOWS the America East: The AE is a very strange animal when it comes to the kind of players who you can recruit who actually pan out, and he knows the league inside and out. He knows what works and what wins and what doesn't.

5. Energy and Motivation: Not only is he young, with tons and tons of energy - which whoever the next coach, if there is a next coach, will need to for the kind of rebuilding effort at an under funded, under-utilized and under-publicized program - but he is EXTREMELY motivated: By all accounts, he had the Brown job - did a great job of holding the program together, the players loved him, nailed the interviews - until some really powerful alumns leaned all their weight on the hiring committee to higher an alumn as the next coach. He's hungry, he wants to win.

Also, for those who keep going "track record": Brown was definitely in a tough spot in the Ivy league with traditional powers Princeton and Penn, Cornell's emergence, and all of the well covered reasons why Harvard was able to sky-rocket by bringing in recruits who would never before have made it through admittance...

He was also, by all accounts, a coach who enjoyed tremendous loyalty of his players and got the most out of them. Furthermore, Agel - the former head coach - was terminated for reasons - which I will not get into on here - which were not performance related and had absolutely nothing to do with T.J...

In conclusion, UNH is not exactly going to have a wealth of qualified suitors applying for the job, if it were to become available... Sorrentine has the energy and motivation, the basketball mind, a history of recruiting through tough admissions, and he knows the league...

+1...and why is this the last post I can see???

UNHFan · 01-10-2013, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

BTW, UNHFan you've really turned a 180 from earlier this season to now on Herrion- you know something that the crowd doesn't

But seriously, what made you change your tune? You went from defending him saying he was the right person for the job to brainstorming replacement lists in a matter of weeks.

It's not like what's been happening the last few games hasn't been any different than what's been happening with UNH the previous seasons, which is to say it's really nothing new.

UVM it is true I have made a huge 180

I had such promise for this team, I had heard such good things the recruits were getting better, the freshmen were ready to produce from day one, we were going to run, go inside, we had depth and here we sit at 4-11. I just don't feel good about this team. I just think after 8 years for whatever reason it has not worked like I hoped it would. If you remember when I joined the board in 2005 I was questioning why we would hire a guy that was 70-92 at ECU and people shot me down and told me it was a bad choice to come to ECU and Herrion was going to turn around UNH. So I attended some clinics heard Herrion speak and began to drink the kool-aid oh did I drink the kool-aid but sadly with the most talent we have had at UNH in years were 4-11. Let's finish the year but then I think UNH needs a change and that has me excited because there is always hope but I just dont think this staff which has brought to 3 semi finals which I salute them for is going to take us where we want to go. Now that list I came up with I have no clue I'm just a fan and love the Aeast and the Wildcats and its the list i created. Who would be interested in the job if it was open I guess only time will tell.

On a sidenote to Isbal is there room on the Hartford Hawk Bandwagon for me in Albany

UVM7680 · 01-10-2013, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

test

thanks! works now. weird.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 01-10-2013, 04:57 PM

All I know is that I think back to when Lonergan took the UVM job, and everyone in the business told Lonergan UVM was a tough place to win and a tough job to take- and this was post-Brennan and 3 straight NCAAs. And they are not wrong, UVM is a tough job.

I can't imagine what coaches in the business think of the UNH job.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 01-10-2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

UVM it is true I have made a huge 180

I had such promise for this team, I had heard such good things the recruits were getting better, the freshmen were ready to produce from day one, we were going to run, go inside, we had depth and here we sit at 4-11.

That's the sales pitch, unfortunately. Have to assess everything yourself.

UNHFan · 01-10-2013, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

All I know is that I think back to when Lonergan took the UVM job, and everyone in the business told Lonergan UVM was a tough place to win and a tough job to take- and this was post-Brennan and 3 straight NCAAs. And they are not wrong, UVM is a tough job.

I can't imagine what coaches in the business think of the UNH job.

I attended Coach Herrion's first Coaches Clinic during his first year and the guest speaker was Mike Jarvis who was working for ESPN at the time. Billy talked about how he had called Coach Jarvis for advice on whether to take the UNH job or not. Coach Jarvis advised him to take it as he said it was potential sleeping giant like another UVM if they had success. On this point I do agree I think if you were to win people would flock to the program! Sadly we have not found that success.

UVM Hoop Cat you mentioned a few posts ago that UNH has not had really any success and you mentioned one reason is due to the lack of instiutional support. What did you mean by this?

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 01-10-2013, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHFan

UVM Hoop Cat you mentioned a few posts ago that UNH has not had really any success and you mentioned one reason is due to the lack of instiutional support. What did you mean by this?

Where men's basketball ranks in importance to the athletics department. As far as I know men's basketball is quite a ways behind football and hockey, right?

Basically basketball isn't much of a priority.

farfromtheshow · 01-10-2013, 08:52 PM

Since I couldn't see anything on this thread I didn't post until now.
A general clarification on here:
I am not advocating for Herrion to leave or be let go -- I respect him a ton as a basketball mind, and he has a proven track record.

My point in posting in here is that IF Herrion does not work out, then I truly believe that no established coach with a long track record will work in UNH, because of the host of circumstances I listed before which greatly diminishes the pool and quality of coaches who would even apply.

Basically if Herrion doesn't work they need to go in a 180 degree different direction -- a young, energetic guy trying to make a name for himself -- because anyone with a name is not going to come to Durham, and anyone with any track record who will actually apply is going to be older and trying to rebuild his career after failing elsewhere.

Which mean's a young guy. And as I outlined VERY CLEARLY IN A POINT BY POINT FASHION I think that Sorrentine would be someone who deserved a strong look for the reasons I OUTLINED. I did not say definitively he should be hired, but that he would be a strong candidate.

farfromtheshow · 01-10-2013, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycwolf

sam i dont have little penis syndrome. the fact is TJ has no record of success to stand on. Enough with this. you like him we get it. everyone likes him. HE HAS NO RECORD OF SUCCESS!!!!! He needs more experience and more success. He probably is a great guy, but being a great guy doesnt get you a job. you need results. Every assistant coach on any AE, NEC, MAAC, CAA... team would jump at the oppurtunity to be a head coach. any one and if they said no they would be lieing or are close to retierment. 85% of college coaches are high energy high motivation guys. Alot of them are basketball minds. For one Jay young is a much better candidate. not saying he should or shouldnt be but on paper he is much better than TJ. Nothing against TJ but Jay has a record of success from new haven to SBU. coahcing, winning, recruiting....

chucky martin went to marist from kentucky, massiello went to manhattan from lousiville, glenn miller went to brown from uconn......the list goes on of coaches going places where winning isnt easy

Frankly, you aren't responding to any of the points I made. I'm not saying my word is the gospel, but you're going off of nothing more than record and I'm offering some genuine counter points and none of them are "oh, I like TJ, he's a great guy, he should be hired."

Anyone who is a young coach who has had a lot of success is not going to be interested in UNH, that's just the reality. So they're going to have to look at more than just record: Does someone have the qualities and characteristics it takes to succeed here, and T.J. has those.

Look at Will Brown's lack of a resume before UNH and look at what he became...

But this is a pointless conversation because you're clearly not debating the actual points I've made and observations I've presented.

**UVM Hoop Cat** · 01-11-2013, 05:59 AM

I'm not advocating Herrion getting the axe either. All I'm saying is Sorrentine or someone like Sorrentine is exactly the type of coach UNH should look at if they were to make a move.

I'm in no position to tell UNH what to do. My only advice for the next time would be if their goal is to have Ivy-like admission standards, then they shouldn't hire someone who has work experience from Drexel and East Carolina.

WrenFGun · 01-11-2013, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat

I'm not advocating Herrion getting the axe either. All I'm saying is Sorrentine or someone like Sorrentine is exactly the type of coach UNH should look at if they were to make a move.

I'm in no position to tell UNH what to do. My only advice for the next time would be if their goal is to have Ivy-like admission standards, then they shouldn't hire someone who has work experience from Drexel and East Carolina.

This, except I'm 100% advocating that Herrion get the axe.

uvm4life20 · 01-11-2013, 08:34 AM

I agree Herrion needs to go. Its a couple seasons late at this point. People shouldnt feel bad about him losing his job. He has done nothing to keep his job. You could say he has stolen from UNH based on results and he has made more money than a lot of people do in their lifetime. I'm pretty sure he could get an ok job not related to basketball. If he has blown through his money that's his fault. He should be set for life financially.

01-10-2013, 12:21 PM	#32 (permalink)
lsbal84 Veteran Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,071 Rep Power: 91721	Re: Possible Replacements for Herrion if UNH were to make a change What an incredibly difficult job it is being a coach.....especially at the D1 level. Your career is literally in the hands of 18-22 year old "kids". Additionally you are judged everyday based on your performance publicly. Thank Goodness I am not judged publicly. Through all the years of my career I have made many blunders and poor judgements. I certainly have made many poor choices in hiring people....and have hired plenty of people that probably would have worked out better if I motivated them in different ways. I would hate for my family/friends and especially my daughter to be able to google my name to read about my daily failures. Somehow your successes, just like in the media, are quickly forgotten. That being said, I guess when you get into the coching profession you know what you are potentially getting into.

01-10-2013, 01:18 PM	#33 (permalink)
nycwolf Player Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NYC Posts: 692 Rep Power: 3053	Re: Possible Replacements for Herrion if UNH were to make a change sam i dont have little penis syndrome. the fact is TJ has no record of success to stand on. Enough with this. you like him we get it. everyone likes him. HE HAS NO RECORD OF SUCCESS!!!!! He needs more experience and more success. He probably is a great guy, but being a great guy doesnt get you a job. you need results. Every assistant coach on any AE, NEC, MAAC, CAA... team would jump at the oppurtunity to be a head coach. any one and if they said no they would be lieing or are close to retierment. 85% of college coaches are high energy high motivation guys. Alot of them are basketball minds. For one Jay young is a much better candidate. not saying he should or shouldnt be but on paper he is much better than TJ. Nothing against TJ but Jay has a record of success from new haven to SBU. coahcing, winning, recruiting.... chucky martin went to marist from kentucky, massiello went to manhattan from lousiville, glenn miller went to brown from uconn......the list goes on of coaches going places where winning isnt easy

01-10-2013, 04:57 PM	#37 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,421 Rep Power: 62496	Re: Possible Replacements for Herrion if UNH were to make a change All I know is that I think back to when Lonergan took the UVM job, and everyone in the business told Lonergan UVM was a tough place to win and a tough job to take- and this was post-Brennan and 3 straight NCAAs. And they are not wrong, UVM is a tough job. I can't imagine what coaches in the business think of the UNH job. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

01-10-2013, 08:52 PM	#41 (permalink)
farfromtheshow Veteran Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,164 Rep Power: 8187	Re: Possible Replacements for Herrion if UNH were to make a change Since I couldn't see anything on this thread I didn't post until now. A general clarification on here: I am not advocating for Herrion to leave or be let go -- I respect him a ton as a basketball mind, and he has a proven track record. My point in posting in here is that IF Herrion does not work out, then I truly believe that no established coach with a long track record will work in UNH, because of the host of circumstances I listed before which greatly diminishes the pool and quality of coaches who would even apply. Basically if Herrion doesn't work they need to go in a 180 degree different direction -- a young, energetic guy trying to make a name for himself -- because anyone with a name is not going to come to Durham, and anyone with any track record who will actually apply is going to be older and trying to rebuild his career after failing elsewhere. Which mean's a young guy. And as I outlined VERY CLEARLY IN A POINT BY POINT FASHION I think that Sorrentine would be someone who deserved a strong look for the reasons I OUTLINED. I did not say definitively he should be hired, but that he would be a strong candidate.

01-11-2013, 05:59 AM	#43 (permalink)
UVM Hoop Cat -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 17,421 Rep Power: 62496	Re: Possible Replacements for Herrion if UNH were to make a change I'm not advocating Herrion getting the axe either. All I'm saying is Sorrentine or someone like Sorrentine is exactly the type of coach UNH should look at if they were to make a move. I'm in no position to tell UNH what to do. My only advice for the next time would be if their goal is to have Ivy-like admission standards, then they shouldn't hire someone who has work experience from Drexel and East Carolina. __________________ "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here" - Hoosiers, & UVM mens basketball NCAA's 2005

01-11-2013, 08:34 AM	#45 (permalink)
uvm4life20 Star Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,659 Rep Power: 18340	Re: Possible Replacements for Herrion if UNH were to make a change I agree Herrion needs to go. Its a couple seasons late at this point. People shouldnt feel bad about him losing his job. He has done nothing to keep his job. You could say he has stolen from UNH based on results and he has made more money than a lot of people do in their lifetime. I'm pretty sure he could get an ok job not related to basketball. If he has blown through his money that's his fault. He should be set for life financially.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode