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Old 03-10-2017, 07:07 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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Originally Posted by Mainebballer View Post
And, Q is a much better job than Vermont.
No, it's not.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:27 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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You might know better than I. But, I quoted Becker's compensation directly from his contract (it's on line). Please enlighten me about this if I'm incorrect.
The Cioffi endowment, according to the UofVermont site, is not in any way related to Becker's salary. It enhances travel, recruiting, facility enhancement and student-athlete development (likely academic tutoring). No mention whatsoever of the salary benefits for Becker or his assistants.

I don't believe endowments/booster contributions can be funneled directly into paying for coaching salaries. Again, I'll stand corrected. But, that doesn't seem to be the case here.

And, Q is a much better job than Vermont. Terrific school, beautiful campus, very nice area, strong academics, slightly better league, far better athletic complex and facilities, more money for recruiting/staff, etc. Not a lateral move at all. Plus, you're right ... cost of living there not much more, if at all, than in Burlington area.

If Q comes after Becker and offers 6 years/$3 million ... the strong guess here is that he'd listen.
That contract online is out of date, and from 2013 or something. UVM lists all base pay for its employees online each year, and Becker's base is $275k. And, the endowment pays for those things, which means it isn't pulled from the athletic department's budget to pay for those things so they have more in the budget to pay for Becker's salary, but some more than likely is earmarked for his salary.

And, Quinnipiac isn't even close to being the program Vermont or Albany are. Get real. If it was, its former coach with all his tremendous resources you claim for 10 years would have turned it into a program that has an NCAA appearance by now.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:35 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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Originally Posted by Mainebballer View Post
You might know better than I. But, I quoted Becker's compensation directly from his contract (it's on line). Please enlighten me about this if I'm incorrect.
The Cioffi endowment, according to the UofVermont site, is not in any way related to Becker's salary. It enhances travel, recruiting, facility enhancement and student-athlete development (likely academic tutoring). No mention whatsoever of the salary benefits for Becker or his assistants.

I don't believe endowments/booster contributions can be funneled directly into paying for coaching salaries. Again, I'll stand corrected. But, that doesn't seem to be the case here.

And, Q is a much better job than Vermont. Terrific school, beautiful campus, very nice area, strong academics, slightly better league, far better athletic complex and facilities, more money for recruiting/staff, etc. Not a lateral move at all. Plus, you're right ... cost of living there not much more, if at all, than in Burlington area.

If Q comes after Becker and offers 6 years/$3 million ... the strong guess here is that he'd listen.
I believe you're correct about this. I was at the press conference when the endowment was announced and it seemed pretty clear to me that it was for things that benefited the student athletes, not salaries. I don't always believe everything I hear, but I tend to think that was legit.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:37 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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And, Quinnipiac isn't even close to being the program Vermont or Albany are. Get real. If it was, its former coach with all his tremendous resources you claim for 10 years would have turned it into a program that has an NCAA appearance by now.
Basically this. Nicer stuff does not necessarily equate to a better job. Sure, the place has a lot of potential. But unless Tom Moore is *that* horrendous a coach, it's not a slam dunk.

Also, let's set a rule now if we can: if we're going to compare 2 schools in different leagues, any 2 schools, we can't use the phrase "better league" unless it's a *really* better league, i.e. the AE, the MAAC, the NEC, and Patriot...in the grand scheme, they're all the same league: they're northeastern 1-bid conferences. Not to say you wouldn't jump from one league to another, but if you're doing so it's not because of "league quality." There's nothing you can accomplish in one of those leagues that you can in the other if you run your house properly. Any differences are just provincial nit-picking by fans of those schools.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:39 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

Quinnipiac isn't even close to Vermont as a basketball job.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:41 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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Quinnipiac isn't even close to Vermont as a basketball job.
It's more money and better facilities.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:41 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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Basically this. Nicer stuff does not necessarily equate to a better job. Sure, the place has a lot of potential. But unless Tom Moore is *that* horrendous a coach, it's not a slam dunk.

Also, let's set a rule now if we can: if we're going to compare 2 schools in different leagues, any 2 schools, we can't use the phrase "better league" unless it's a *really* better league, i.e. the AE, the MAAC, the NEC, and Patriot...in the grand scheme, they're all the same league: they're northeastern 1-bid conferences. Not to say you wouldn't jump from one league to another, but if you're doing so it's not because of "league quality." There's nothing you can accomplish in one of those leagues that you can in the other if you run your house properly. Any differences are just provincial nit-picking by fans of those schools.
This. Others may not agree and that's fine/I don't care (obvi) but I'd absolutely include the current iteration of the CAA in that grouping as well; though generally the salaries are a bit higher and you get to spend more time (and money via travel) in the south- if you're into that sort of thing.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:46 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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It's more money and better facilities.
This is correct, but that's where it stops and ends and the notion of Q-Pac being "better" in any way

Quinnipiac has better facilities than Vermont, but it's not recruiting better student-athletes than Vermont is. That speaks volumes about the importance of facilities at mid-major level.

Q-Pac is not a destination job; it's not a place where Tom Moore was supposed to spend 10 years and not make the NCAAs. That's why he's being fired today.

To go from a strong mid to a weak mid for not even a big material amount of money when you factor in real estate/cost of living and the opportunity cost of what you can get elsewhere by just staying and winning and waiting until the right opportunity comes along that's a slam-dunk, to take on the risk of trying to build Q-Pac is obviously....not the right move.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:50 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

Much harder to win the MAAC than the AE on a consistent basis. Vermont is a job where you can win and propel yourself up the coaching ladder. It's hard to do well enough at Quinnipiac for that.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:19 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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This is correct, but that's where it stops and ends and the notion of Q-Pac being "better" in any way

Quinnipiac has better facilities than Vermont, but it's not recruiting better student-athletes than Vermont is. That speaks volumes about the importance of facilities at mid-major level.

Q-Pac is not a destination job; it's not a place where Tom Moore was supposed to spend 10 years and not make the NCAAs. That's why he's being fired today.

To go from a strong mid to a weak mid for not even a big material amount of money when you factor in real estate/cost of living and the opportunity cost of what you can get elsewhere by just staying and winning and waiting until the right opportunity comes along that's a slam-dunk, to take on the risk of trying to build Q-Pac is obviously....not the right move.
Why doesn't someone ask Sam Dingba what he thinks is better????
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:40 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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That contract online is out of date, and from 2013 or something. UVM lists all base pay for its employees online each year, and Becker's base is $275k. And, the endowment pays for those things, which means it isn't pulled from the athletic department's budget to pay for those things so they have more in the budget to pay for Becker's salary, but some more than likely is earmarked for his salary.

And, Quinnipiac isn't even close to being the program Vermont or Albany are. Get real. If it was, its former coach with all his tremendous resources you claim for 10 years would have turned it into a program that has an NCAA appearance by now.
The contract on line lists Becker's salary for this season, 2016-17, so it's accurate.
Yet, even if it's not ... if Becker's base is $275K .... that's still a LOT LESS THAN $500K annually.

Last edited by Mainebballer; 03-10-2017 at 09:42 AM. Reason: updating.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:49 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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Originally Posted by UVM Hoop Cat View Post
This is correct, but that's where it stops and ends and the notion of Q-Pac being "better" in any way

Quinnipiac has better facilities than Vermont, but it's not recruiting better student-athletes than Vermont is. That speaks volumes about the importance of facilities at mid-major level.

Q-Pac is not a destination job; it's not a place where Tom Moore was supposed to spend 10 years and not make the NCAAs. That's why he's being fired today.

To go from a strong mid to a weak mid for not even a big material amount of money when you factor in real estate/cost of living and the opportunity cost of what you can get elsewhere by just staying and winning and waiting until the right opportunity comes along that's a slam-dunk, to take on the risk of trying to build Q-Pac is obviously....not the right move.
No, Q is not a "destination" job. No mid-major school is one. But, it's a lot better job than Vt., based on salary (more than double), facilities (an actual on-campus arena, rather than a gym), better league, more resources, etc. And, check real estate ... cost of living in the area not much higher, if at all, than northern Vermont.
You'd better believe that 5 years/$3 million would have Becker listening.

Not saying it will happen, but now is the time for him to move. No coach at a Vermont-level school with a Vermont-level salary and with Vermont-level facilities would turn that down.

Plus, if you took the time to look at Q's roster ... three seniors leaving, none strong contributors.
There's no place to go but up for that program, and the pieces are in place to do so.
Coaches LOVE stepping into that sort of situation.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:52 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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The contract on line lists Becker's salary for this season, 2016-17, so it's accurate.
Yet, even if it's not ... if Becker's base is $275K .... that's still a LOT LESS THAN $500K annually.
Stop being a Bob Cimbollek about it and use your head. You don't go to Quinnipiac from UVM. $500k or not, Becker has the better job, and would and could do way better than Quinnipiac if he wanted to chase money.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:53 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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No, Q is not a "destination" job. No mid-major school is one. But, it's a lot better job than Vt., based on salary (more than double), facilities (an actual on-campus arena, rather than a gym), better league, more resources, etc. And, check real estate ... cost of living in the area not much higher, if at all, than northern Vermont.
You'd better believe that 5 years/$3 million would have Becker listening.

Not saying it will happen, but now is the time for him to move. No coach at a Vermont-level school with a Vermont-level salary and with Vermont-level facilities would turn that down.

Plus, if you took the time to look at Q's roster ... three seniors leaving, none strong contributors.
There's no place to go but up for that program, and the pieces are in place to do so.
Coaches LOVE stepping into that sort of situation.
Quit trying to get him out of the conference, Walshy and go write some more blogs.
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Old 03-10-2017, 10:03 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Re: 2017 Coaching Carousel

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Basically this. Nicer stuff does not necessarily equate to a better job. Sure, the place has a lot of potential. But unless Tom Moore is *that* horrendous a coach, it's not a slam dunk.

Also, let's set a rule now if we can: if we're going to compare 2 schools in different leagues, any 2 schools, we can't use the phrase "better league" unless it's a *really* better league, i.e. the AE, the MAAC, the NEC, and Patriot...in the grand scheme, they're all the same league: they're northeastern 1-bid conferences. Not to say you wouldn't jump from one league to another, but if you're doing so it's not because of "league quality." There's nothing you can accomplish in one of those leagues that you can in the other if you run your house properly. Any differences are just provincial nit-picking by fans of those schools.
Does anyone really think that the MAAC isn't a superior league than the AE?
How about backing that assumption up with some facts.
Here they are. The NCAA's RPI of leagues for the past 10 years:

2016-17: MAAC 16, AE 21.
2015-16: MAAC 20, AE 23.
2014-15: MAAC 22, AE 28.
2013-14: MAAC 16, AE 29.
2012-13: MAAC 14, AE 22.
2011-12: MAAC 17, AE 29.
2010-11: MAAX 16, AE 28.
2009-10: MAAC 15, AE 23.
2008-09: MAAC 14, AE 16.
2007-08: MAAC 17, AE 17.

MAAC rated 17 or better 8 times in the last 10 years, AE 2 times.
10-year average: MAAC 16.9, AE 24.5.

The MAAC, in the eyes of the NCAA, is not only a better league, but a considerably better one. That ain't nitpicking!
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