kingofkings

Things are just not working out for this team. Let us look at management's trades since 1999:

1) Traded for Lorenzen Wright from the Clippers. Draft picks given to Clippers,were the 18th pick in the 2000 draft and the 8th pick in the 2002 draft. The Clippers picked both Quentin Richardson and Chris Wilcox respectively. Please note, that Amare Stoudemire, was selected with the 9th pick in the 2002 draft, right after Chris Wilcox.

2) Traded the 3rd pick in the 2001 draft, for Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Players traded to the Grizzlies for Reef, were Lorenzen Wright, Brevin Knight and that pick, Pau Gasol.

3) Traded the higher of the Hawks own pick and the Pacers pick, owed to the Hawks, in the 2003 draft, to the Bucks, for Glenn Robinson. Note, that at this stage, the pick looks like another lottery pick, which is unprotected,with the Hawks poor play.Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony and Darko Milicic will be available for the Bucks to take, with the Hawks pick.

The only reason why I am bringing up these trades, is that the players who went to the Hawks, in Shareef and Big Dog, are not helping the Hawks win. They are taking up a huge amount of the salary cap, which is stunting the Hawks ability, to make any run at any free agents, next year, probably the most important year of free agency.

They could have built their team from scratch, with younger lottery picks, instead of looking for a quick fix, by trading for guys who are putting up huge numbers, but are not leading the Hawks to any wins.They are not winning now, so why not keep the draft picks for yourself and build your talent base and rebuild??

The Hawks made that playoff guarantee, of refunding season ticket prices to members, before they traded for Glenn Robinson, so they really need to re-examine what exactly went wrong with their goals and hopes for the future.

Here is what the Hawks could have looked like, assuming no trades for either Shareef and Big Dog. Assuming, trade of Mutombo, to the 76ers took place as well, in 2001,which gave them Ratliff, Kukoc and Mohammed, as they needed to get some value, instead of just letting Mutombo walk at the end of that year:

Centre - Theo Ratliff

Power forward - Amare Stoudemire - With 8th pick in 2002 draft, which went to the Clippers as part of the Lo Wright trade, which I mentioned earlier.Stoudemire went to the Suns with the 9th pick.

Small Forward - Pau Gasol - Taken with the 3rd pick in the 2001 draft, which was traded to the Grizzlies,for Shareef Abdur Rahim.

Shooting Guard - Quentin Richardson - Taken with the 18th pick in the 2000 draft, which was traded to the Clippers as part of the Lo Wright trade, which I mentioned earlier.

Point Guard - Jason Terry

Bench:

Desmond Mason - Remember, the Hawks took Dermarr Johnson with the 6th pick in the 2000 draft. They could have taken Desmond Mason, who went to the Sonics at pick #17.Tough, with Johnson's injury, but still, you have to wonder what if. Johnson started to come on, but Mason looks to me like another Shawn Marion type of player.


Toni Kukoc

Nazr Mohammed

Dion Glover

Lottery Pick in 2003 NBA Draft. This pick is owed to the Bucks from the Big Dog trade and is unprotected. Lebron James maybe, Carmelo Anthony, Darko Milicic???

Plus, signing of middle tie free agents with cap room, from having cheaper talent on roster

So you can see, that the Hawks could really have rebuilt the team in its entirety. But instead, they tried to win now and go with veterans.However, all that is happening at the present time, is that the Hawks are not playiong well at all and really struggling.

Guys like Shareef and Big Dog are putting up huge numbers, but where are the Hawks?? They are out of 8th place in the East by a large margin. Well, larger then anyone would have ever predicted and expected.

They could have gone and built the team around with lottery picks. Younger, talented, athletic players, who come cheap and are tied up for the obligatory 4 year period.They will probably be better then Reef and Big Dog, when all is said and done, as well.

Instead, it seems like the Hawks are hog-tied with large contracts and with guys who just are not getting the job done, yet are still posting up big time numbers.

Maybe, management should look at all the picks that they have dealt out and traded in recent years and just wondered just what could have been and kicked themselves.

I mean would it have mattered, because the Hawks are not winning now anyway.They could have stored up their lottery picks and built up their base of talent and gone from there. The more talent you have, the further that you will advance and the greater the future prospects that you will have.

Time to look back and analyse what went wrong and start pointing fingers at management.

Of course, it is hard to say what if and what not, but the facts are clear. The Hawks could have drafted the players that I described and built from there. Sure they would not win, but the Hawks surely are not winning now!


So in essence, who would you rather have:

Shareef, Big Dog and Dermarr Johnson:

OR

Amare Stoudemire, Pau Gasol, Quentin Richardson, Desmond Mason and possibly Lebron James, with the pick that goes to the Bucks next year????

I would take option two, no question.

Chops

Yes, Hawks management has made some huge mistakes. One of them, IMO, was trading for Shareef. They could have taken Pau Gasol, or even Eddy Curry if they wanted to re-build with a potential franchise center. Instead, they get Shareef, who puts up good numbers, but he will never lead a team to a championship, or even close.

So, say they took Eddy Curry with their pick. They would have that potential franchise center that I talekd about.

The other big mistake is obviously the Lorenzen Wright deal. Quentin Richardson is blooming into a minny star in Los Angeles, while Wright is now a Memphis Grizzlie. So if you really yhink about it, they traded away a whole lot just so they could have Shareef. Big mistake.

Then they went and made that stupid guarantee, which now makes them look even worse. They are now stuck with an average team, which is not terribly old, but they are far from young.

This is the lineup that I wenvision, when I look at what could have been:

C- Eddy Curry
PF- Amare Stoudemire
SF- Carmelo Anthony
SG- Quentin Richardson
PG- Jason Terry

That is an exciting young team. Of course they wouldn't be as competitive as the current hawks team, but they would have a much brighter future, and with some exciting young players, people might actually go to their games.

Sad story...

Devestata

The lineup KC posted would've probably won the title a few times. To tell you the truth, I would've kept the 3rd pick and drafted Gasol, and not have traded for Reef. Gasol and him are about the same...and Gasol comes cheaper.

It's sad, because they traded for Robinson...and yet I look at that lineup and see Carmelo Anthony playing at SF. That in itself is horrible, look at Robinson. He won't play defense, and Anthony has an all around game.

Maybe the Hawks will just have to wait again until they get back high picks and rebuild. Maybe next time around, they won't screw up.

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kingofkings

The bottom line, is that the Hawks gave up too much of their future, for a present that is just not happening for them.

Lorenzen Wright played 2 relatively uneventful seasons for the Hawks, backing up Dikembe Mutombo and Henderson. He cost them 2 first round picks, being the 18th in 2000 and the 8th pick in 2002. Too much to give for a journeymen power forward, in my opinion.

So, to get both Wright, Shareef and Big Dog, the Hawks gave off a total of 4 first round picks, including 3 lottery picks, if we assume that the Hawks are not going to make the playoffs this year, with that unprotected pick going to the Bucks.

They clearly wasted those picks on guys that cannot improve their team. If they can improve their team, then why are they not winning?? Shareef and Big Dog are not superstar players, yet they get paid as superstars.

It seems to me, that the Hawks would have been better off, storing their draft picks and rebuilt the team, like I said in my initial post. If you are going to just throw around lottery picks on veterans, you should expect the players you get in return, to start to lead your team to improvement, particularly in the weakened Eastern Conference.

Clearly, management has erred here and needs to be accountable. They have players that are putting up big time stats, yet the team is not going anywhere. It almost seems like at times when I watch the Hawks, that they are playing in 2nd gear.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but clearly, it would seem that the Hawks should have rebuilt the team in its entirety. They would not have won under their rebuilding plan, but they are surely not winning anything now, with their team of potential and past All-Stars anyway.

I also forgot the Steve Smith for Isaiah Rider trade, which blew up in their faces a couple of years ago, as well.

Pete Babcock, the Hawks GM, is walking a tight rope and should be concerned about his job, with the way the Hawks have gone this year. They have the big name players, yet they are not carrying the team to many wins this year.They are all putting up big time stats in losing teams.

Instead of wasting and throwing around lottery and first round picks like water, maybe they should have kept them and developed their own talent base and pool of players from scratch. They come cheaper and can develop into even better players, then the veteran players, that they have traded for, with minimal success.

That is the problem with teams that refuse to rebuild, because they do not want to be associated with losing teams and franchises. Well, if I was Pete Babcock, I would be very concerned with the future that he has thrown away. He went all out for a win now mentality and gave up alot for this to happen, yet the team is not improving or getting better.

c_dog

I think the main problem here is the coaching. Do you think Amare, Gasol, and Wright would be nearly as polished as they are now than if they are playing for the Hawks? Gasol and Wright are only winning because of Hubie Brown's coaching. Gasol would just be another rookie if he stayed here, and Wright would still be your less-than-decent PF. Amare is talented, but note that he is not winning by himself alone. He has matrix, marbury, and penny. I also doubt he would become anything if he stayed here.

Who would have thought that a team of Ratliff, Terry, Reef, and Big Dog would be unable to make the playoffs? I would have thought that this was an all-star team or championship team. The problem here isn't the players. It's the coach. I think just about any coach can win with this team.

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WE can't forget about that awesome trade

Mookie Blaylock 4 Jason Terry

I do have a question c-dog, I can never watch the Hawks, but I notice Jason Terrys minutes going a bit down, while Mike Wilkes' are going up. Whats happening?

Will the Hawks make another trade that looks good in the beginning and turns out bad trade?

Is Terry staying, we know that Jason is the leader of the team right now, but is he not the asnwer at the point with Big Dog and Reef?

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Sometimes, theres just not enough rocks.

kingofkings

The bottom line is that the Hawks better hope that they make the playoffs, because their pick this year goes to the Bucks, as part of the Big Dog trade. If they miss the playoffs, they are going to have a very nervous wait, as they wait for the ping pong balls to land for the Bucks. That is 3 lottery picks they traded in the past two years!!

If the Bucks get James, through that pick, there is going to be a huge uproar with Hawks fans and supporters. One, because Robinson did not get the job done with the Hawks and secondly the amount of fan exposure and support will really head downwards.Thirdly, they are going to ask that the Hawks just gave the pick away, as they would not have won with Robinson or without him, so it would seem like a waste.

The problem is, that if I look at players such as Robinson, Shareef and Terry, these guys are really putting up some numbers. Check their player profiles. The team tried to build around a core of scorers and offensive players, but unfortunately, these guys cannot guard anyone. This hurts even more,when their shot is off and they are struggling.

Al Harrington went off for 40, mainly scored off Shareef, with the damage done in the first quarter. Caron Butler a rookie, scored 25 off Glenn Robinson mainly. What amazed me, was the listless effort of Robinson in guarding him. At times, Butler took him baseline and just shot mid range jumpshots, without any pressure from Big Dog, numerous times. He was able to cut to the basket and drive around Robinson numerous times.

Is it just coaching or is it chemistry?? I mean when the Hawks as a whole, see one person slackening on defense, be it the team stars and leaders in Shareef and Big Dog, naturally the rest are going to follow. I mean these guys, Big Dog is close to 30, Reef is 27, maybe it is too late for these guys to learn how to really defend in the NBA. They should have got it by now.Can you really teach any new tricks to these players and force them to do things, considering that they have been in the NBA for a long time now and getting paid close to max salaries??

At the beginning of the year, they tried to use Robinson as a point forward, which really is ridiculous. He needs to just focus on scoring and shooting from mid range. Whenever this guy over creates and puts the ball on the floor, the result is a turnover, through a steal or an offensive foul. I have seen it numerous times with him this season. He just needs to get the ball in his spots and shoot it, not create for his teammates.Whenever someone plays him close up, he tries to create more space for himself to manouver and gives up the ball, in this regard.

Turnovers and bad defense are what is really killing this team. They tried to get players that can shoot the opposition out of the game, but one, they did not count on the amount of turnovers given by the team, nor the fact that these guys cannot defend very well.

This is one team, whereby stats really do not tell the whole picture. It goes to show, that even if you have 3 players putting up big time numbers, the team still cannot win, when these players give up the same, to their opponents.

They better hope and pray that Lebron James does not go to the Bucks with the Big Dog pick. That would be even worse then the disaster of this season currently....

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Well you look at the Hawks starters and say wow......

PG - Terry
SG- Demarr
SF- GROb
PF- REef
C- Theo
6th - Nazr

After that................................... its like a CBA team, (other then Alen Henderson).

In the offseason when the Hawks made that trade......... I thought to myself, that pick won't matter, we are going to the playoffs. And that is why many thgouht the trade favored the HAwks.

Then DeMarr Johnson goes down whihc leaves us with Dion Glover (a great hype) and Ira Newble. Glover has always performed well in summer camps, and shown glimpses in games but is very inconsistnet. As for Newble, he is a poor excuse for a player, they got him for defense, and he has provided some, but he can't throw anything and make it hit the ground.

You loo kat the other teams scoring against the Hawks and are disgusted, but look at the Hawks offense, not incredibly impressive.

The Hawks need better team defense, Theo has to stay in his role so Terry can player iveraggresive on the passing lanes, thus opening up fast brreaks.

Its still relatively early in the weak east, so give the Hawks time.

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Sometimes, theres just not enough rocks.

kingofkings

You said it yourself, in the easier Eastern conference, then the Hawks should be beating up on the weaker teams, but it is not happening.

The future looks to me to be set back even more. Like I said before, 3 lottery picks in the past 3 drafts for guys that are not leading the team to wins.

I agree at the time, it appeared like the Hawks stole Big Dog from the Bucks, but it looks like maybe the Bucks are on top of that deal. One, because the Hawks are not improved from last season and secondly, losing Big Dog has not really impacted on the Bucks, because they have Redd and Thomas to carry the load, that Big Dog carried.

I know that it is early, but in my initial thread, I brought up the players that the Hawks could have taken, if they took on the path of rebuilding and starting over, from the Mutombo, Smith, Blaylock, Laettner days. They could have built up their own talent base, instead of trading the talent to other teams.

Of course the Hawks can turn it around, but they better start soon, because they look like a really bad team right now.

(-) 0 † § I-I () †

They are a very bad team right now. And may be for the rest of this season. But I defintely think with a good coach , this team could be in the palyoffs. They need more defensive discipline. Maybe Tubby Smith could do the job, who knows.

The talent on the team is too high to jsut give up on the current players. So I say watit maybe til the end of next season to completely regroup.

Another thing that really hurt this team was losing DeMarr Johnson. He and Terry worked well together towards the end of the year. And as our last high draft pick, he was a big hope for us. His injury will most likely destroy his career, but I say give him onoe more shot to see if he can rebound.

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Sometimes, theres just not enough rocks.

Petey

I see what you are saying, but I feel that the Hawks need to go with the quick fix. They have not played good ball in a long long time, and across town the Braves have not lost a pennant in more then a decade. A decade of dominance most likely has also hurt the Hawk's fan support, why their management made a bold claim of giving money back... hey guess what... why not?

Get the money now, invest it, and pay back later...

Why not?

Get fans to pay for parking, pay for food, in an arena that was going to be open regardless.

It's all about business for some teams. You will never see NY rebuild, and to me the Hawks can't because they are in the same city as a winner year after year. Perhaps they could have gotten better products, but that within itself is a stretch.

-Petey

kingofkings

Hawks upcoming schedule

Detroit at Atlanta
New Jersey at Atlanta
Dallas at Atlanta
Houston at Atlanta
New Orleans at Atlanta
Atlanta at Milwaukee
Atlanta at Boston
Atlanta at San Antonio

Now that is a tough 8 game stretch starting tomorrow against Detroit. It would seem quite feesible that this team could drop 8 straight games, considering the way they are playing currently.

I reckon they are going to maybe force a trade, to try and stop the bleeding, if they come of this horror 8 game stretch in very bad shape. Remember, Terry is up for a new contract at the end of this season and the question is, should they committ to him, or trade him for cheaper talent, under their rookie contracts and also draft picks??

Interesting game stretch for the Hawks. Their season very much depends on them hanging in and maybe pinching 3 or 4 games, in that span.