JerryMaGuire

Okay, to address the earlier proposition of Atlanta's draft pick this season - I believe the Bucks got the pick as part of last summer's trade.

Also, the straight up trade of JYD and Henderson doesn't work cap wise so I assume you would through in some filler players and I simply do not see anyone else on the Hawks roster that the Raptors would want.

Lastly, you have to explain to me why the Raptors would even consider trading JYD for Henderson if it was even possible in a straight up trade.

Aside from the two shorter yrs in length of contract, I really do not see the Raptors trading JYD for Henderson when JYD has almost 5pts and 5 reb more than Henderson per game.

MikeDC

Big deal. The trade deadline is passed anyway, but you can always throw in some junky player to make the deal work because the salaries aren't that far off. The Raps would have to include a filler player, not the Hawks. So the Raps throw in someone like N'Dyiae to balance things out. Such players are completely replaceable.

Because Henderson can legitimately play PF and has about 40 lbs of muscle on JYD. He's getting 5 and 5 less playing 18 mpg behind Ratliff and Rahim. JYD on the other hand, is playing 33 mpg. Of course he's putting up bigger numbers when he's playing an extra 15 minutes a game!

__________________
* De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum
* Images in signatures are now operational

JerryMaGuire

Excellent points but I still don't see it. Maybe I'm just tired but personally I believe that JYD earns his minutes while Henderson is delagated to a bench role.

JYD in contrast brings so many intangibles to the Raptors: heart, hustle, intensity, motivation and all with 5 extra pts and rebounds while he earns every minute. Henderson, however, is bringing nothing to the current HAWKS line up that JYD consistently brings to the Raptors. Therefore, I see this as a horrible trade for the Raptors.

Maybe its just me though. Let's propose it on the Raptors board.

JerryMaGuire

Could you do me a favor and post a link to where you got this information from. JYD is 6'9 and 225 and Henderson is 6'9" and 240.

I definately believe you that JYD is giving up 40 lbs of muscle but I would like to see the information myself.

Vintage

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/alan_h....html?nav=page Henderson is 6'9" 230

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jerome....html?nav=page Jerome is 6'9" 225

__________________
w00t

JerryMaGuire

Thanks vintage. I was using numbers on ESPN which had a larger gap between them. It seems the numbers you posted only have 5lbs seperating them so I want to know what info gives Henderson having 40lbs more muscle than JYD. Do you have a link for this info?

Vintage

No. I never knew there was a 40 lb difference in muscle between them. I doubt there is. Henderson looks bulkier than JYD. At least last year that was the case, haven't seen either of them this year.

__________________
w00t

JerryMaGuire

Okay, thanks anyway. Personally, I wouldn't say that Henderson is bulkier than JYD but even if he is, JYD is pretty cut and tone. Therefore, I would like to find the info where he is giving up 40lbs in muscle to Henderson.

I agree that Henderson is muscular and could pose as a decent PF for any team. But, I see him at this point in his career as a delagated bench player while JYD brings the following traits to the Raptors:

Ranks #10 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(9.3)

Ranks #9 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(1.76)

Ranks #12 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds(170.0)

Ranks #3 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per Game(3.4)

Ranks #4 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.35)

Ranks #16 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(4.9)

Ranks #16 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(2.53)

Vintage

I wouldn't trade JYD for Henderson. JYD is an energy player. Henderson isn't. Henderson is a short PF. JYD can play SF/PF and brings more to the table IMO.

__________________
w00t

JerryMaGuire

I agree 100%

MikeDC

Henderson 6'9" and 235

http://www2.realgm.com/src_playerfile.php?playerid=87

JYD 6'9" and 206

http://www2.realgm.com/src_playerfile.php?playerid=484

Could be wrong, but that's the published information I was going off of.

__________________
* De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum
* Images in signatures are now operational

JerryMaGuire

Well, it appears that we have a predicatment since nba.com, espn.com and realgm.com all pose different weights.

Personally, I wouldn't use realgm.com for info since they are generally the last to update things such as free agent lists and the like. But, I do see now how you used their 29 lbs differential to get to a difference in 40lbs of muscle between the players.

So, lets just concede that weight and muscle wise their is not a substantial difference between the players.

Therefore, what do you think about the points that Vintage and I made regarding what JYD brings to the Raptors and what Henderson brings to the Hawks? Did I sway you yet that this is a bad trade for Toronto or do you still like it?

JerryMaGuire

Also, maybe its just me but I have never liked and understood when people attribute more rebounds, pts and other benefits to players if they were given more minutes.

I don't know why but it never works for me in any credible way. In fact, it denies talent and many other tangible and intangible attributes and blindly attaches more of everything with more minutes given.

This is just my personal preference though so feel free to ignore this if you want.

(-) 0 † § I-I () †

Personally I also think that Atlanta would be getting a much better deal. JYD is a hustler , and athletic crowd favorite as opposed to Henderson an older player who has shown glimpses but its aware he does not ahve a future starting with the Hawks.

I think it wouldnt make sense because, first JYD wouldnt get much pt behind , GROB, REEF, THEO, and splitting with NAZR.

Jerry your points regarding stats per minutes are interesting. But many things must be factored in when looking at stas. Like JYD is ranked very high in offensive rebounds. Well I dont know off hand, and am to lazy to look , but I would guess that the Raptors fg% isnt great, so he may get more chances.

Henderson plays behind GROB and REEF, and Theo is a rebounder, as opposed to JYD who has probably only Antonio Davis that rebounds.

So in conclusion (since I probably contradicted myself a million times), the trade doesnt make sense for either team. JYD wont get great minutes in ATlanta, and he is a crowd favorite in Toronto.


Sorry if my comments are crazy but I am falling asleep as im typi...........................

__________________
Sometimes, theres just not enough rocks.

JerryMaGuire

I think your comments are excellent and eventhough you agree with me, you gave me new insight into this possible trade that I never considered (i.e., displacement of JYD on the HAWKS roster).

BTW, there is only 1 yr seperating them in age but I agree with your assessment of both as players and what they bring to their respective teams.

I will check team FG percentage later because if you are correct, I think this is another excellent point regarding why JYD is a more prolific rebounder at this point in his career then Henderson. I am inclined to say that there is not a significant difference between the two clubs. But, I will check.