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Ranking the Coaches

15K views 122 replies 36 participants last post by  JHG722 
#1 · (Edited)
Not sure if WH will put his rankings out there this year, so I thought I would give it a stab. I will admit I probably put about 1/25 of the time and research in as WH - maybe even less as I am pretty much going off the top of my head and my own observations. Basically I am looking at a 5 year window and not considering previous stops - though I'm sure that influenced me on Majerus. Let me know what you think. I gave a letter grade to each coach for the following: Recruiting, X and O's , and management and motivation (to include managing players, egos, the program in general, player development, etc.). Here you go:

1. Dunphy – Temple
Recruiting B+, X and O’s A+, Managing and Motivating A
Class of the league – Only questions are why he can’t rope in more high level recruits and win a game in the NCAA. This guy has a presence and knows how to teach the game.

2.Mack – Xavier
Recruiting – A , X and O’s A, managing and motivating A
Impressive how the program did not miss a beat when he took over. Has continued to snag top 100 talent. X machine keeps rolling along. Not a huge sample but I can’t argue with the results.

3. Mooney – Richmond
R – B+, XO – A-, managing and motivating – A
Have to admit I was a fan even when Spiders were only winning 8 games in a season. Still developing X and O’s. Strength is managing and motivating his roster. Has proven himself as a program builder. Next step is to have some success in the NCAA. In my opinion has had a better record in the A10 than the talent would indicate the last 3-4 years.

4. Majerus – SLU
Recruiting B+, X and O’s B+, managing and motivating B
I had my doubts about Majerus’ motivation after his first season or two. Seems to have the train rolling in the right direction with his hard nosed coaching style. Recruiting is starting to catch fire as well. Reminds me of Calhoun at Uconn in that he would rather run a player off than develop him.

5. Gregory – Dayton
Recruiting – A, X and O’s C, managing and motivating B
I must admit, I may very well be buying into the recruiting hype Muddy Waters espouses. He has brought in some very nice recruits. Keeping Staten committed for so long is impressive. Struggled this past year in late games situation. Was this the coach or the PG’s? Teams always play a physical brand and excel on defense. Has had trouble with the PG spot – seems to be fixed with Staten.

6. Martelli – St. Joe’s
R-B-, XO – B+, MM – C+
Based on lifetime achievement, would be much higher on this list. Will he get his fastball back? Seems like he has had a lot of transfers or academic problems on his rosters lately.

7. Baron – URIR – B+, XO – C+, MM B
Baron’s teams seem to have fallen into a pattern. Start strong and fade late. Not sure what the cause. He seems to be a strong recruiter, though he had a ton of turnover between verbals and signees this season – losing his own son to UVA and two other recruits withdrawing already this school year. Has been a very solid program builder, but can’t seem to get over the hump at URI so far.

8. Hobbs – GWR – B, XO – C+, MM C+
Hobbs seemed to have a solid formula: recruit long skilled athletes at every position and apply pressure on both ends of the court. Somewhere along the line recently the equation broke down. He seems to be headed back in the right direction this past year and got a verbal from a top 100 big man. Will be interesting to see if he regains the magic formula or slips.

9. Schmidt – St. BonaventureR – C-, XO – B, MM – C
Seems to struggling to bring quality players to the enchanted mountains. Eli Carter’s reversal was a blow. Nicholson was a great find, but is not surrounding him with enough. Seems to be a good game coach. Will need to pick up the recruiting to see how far he can take this program.

10. Duquesne – EverhardtR – B, XO – C-, M-M – C
He always seems to be on the cusp, but his teams either don’t have key depth or highly touted players don’t develop or transfer. After the shooting tragedy he had a great run with a super uptempo game – but has not impressed me with X and O’s last two years.

11. Kellogg – UmassRecruiting B+ (A if you went strictly on ratings), X and O’s C, managing and motivating C+
Only two years to go off. I think he is going in the right direction. Bringing in some highly rated recruits. Will he stick to the DDM offense? Can he motivate on defense?

12. Giannini – LaSalleRecruiting B, XO – C-, M and M – C
Always seems to bring in touted recruits, but where are the results? I know injuries are a factor, but that can’t explain the lack of development for some of his players. Have to give him props to be able to land Murray and the incoming PG given their recent lack of success and h.s. gym. I believe he just signed a long term extension so he will have time to see his young talent through.
Incompletes - no A10 experience to rate vs. other coaches:
Pecora – Fordham
TBD – did a nice job in the CAA, but never really dominant there usually taking a back seat to VCU, GMU and others
Major – Charlotte
TBD – seems to have the potential to be a top notch recruiter. Is walking into a nice roster. Should have an opportunity to make some noise right away.
 
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#85 · (Edited)
Maybe I'm just spoiled being an Xavier fan. But I think UD fans have a right to be upset about some aspects of his 7 year tenure.

UD effortlessly sells out a 10,000+ seat arena. They have great facilities. They have a large budget (not sure the exact numbers, but it has to be 1st or 2nd in the conference). The entire city of Dayton gets behind the team.

Gregory has a lot of advantages over Dunphry, mooney, and nearly every other coach in the conference.

He should recruit better. I sort of discount that accomplishment a bit because UD has some inherent advantages that attracts recruits.
 
#88 ·
It is a nice situation being #1 by a long shot in the city. Wright State is slowly coming along, but the city loves the Flyers. Recently, UD Arena ticket sales have been through the roof. I think there were only about 11 seats that were not renewed in the lower bowl which must seat 5-6 thousand. Season ticket sales are on a record setting pace this year, and the X game just sold out this week. That is earlier than ever before. I know we broke a season attendance record 2 years ago.
 
#90 · (Edited)
WH, giving BG credit for 20 win seasons is meaningless in an analysis of A10 coaches if half those wins are homecourt SOS bottomfeeders/cupcakes. What does that prove, except that he is afraid to road test his teams OOC? It certainly did not pay any dividends in league or in securing postseason bids and wins. The coach has a major say in the schedule, and he consistently ducked any early tests until the last two seasons.

Using your same athletes (same schedule?) analysis, I would easily put Mooney higher on the list than BG.

That said, liked your couch job on Phil. Insight is still your strong suit. Edit 10-18...I should have said "strongest" suit.
 
#93 ·
Interesting. I disagree, but I'm a homer.

Plus, I watched the UD meltdown at the A10 tourney in person and it has definitely affected my judgment. I know it's one game but I'd wager some UD fans would say it was a microcosm of the previous 30 all in 15 minutes. I liked what I saw in the NIT, but it seemed like the pressure was off the coach and the team and they all responded to that feeling. Can't help but assess some of that noticeable change from the regular season to things that could have been done earlier.

Spiders could be improved individually rebounding by adding Martel to the starting lineup in place of Butler and if K. Smith starts at 2 guard, he washes any rebounding loss from Gonzo. However, the matchup zone will always create some holes for aggressive offensive rebounding teams and Mooney will always promote transition defense over offensive rebounding. If the Spiders pressed the o-glass and got 4 more boards a game but in turn gave up 4-6 points more in easy transition hoops in order to do so, is that a wash? I'd say not.

Similarly, while Gregory has had more time to get a true PG, Mooney used his second wave of recruits (if given in a 4 year period) to snag what could be a premier rebounder in Williams.

Spiders have potential to go very long and athletic at times this year - KA, Smith, Martel, Harper, Garrett - so it should be interesting to see if they can get better on the boards since Mooney likes those types of lineups, assuming they can shoot.
 
#94 ·
Obviously, SDW, I judge all coaches by everything I’ve seen in their A-10 careers. On that basis I slightly prefer Gregory. His heavy emphasis on defense and rebounding are closer to my approach.

As you note, Mooney’s offense is structurally weaker when it comes to boardwork. I am not all that thrilled with that. Rebounding has been a major problem at Richmond since Mooney took over. (And he can go back to Beilein for that).

If you are going to pick one game of Dayton as emblematic of Gregory’s career, it’s just as easy to pick one game of Richmond. The Spiders getting splattered on the boards by St. Mary’s was very off-putting to me. I just can’t see Richmond ever going very far in the postseason without more consistent rebounding. If the system needs to be tweaked, it needs to be tweaked.

No big deal, though. We are splitting hairs, in my view. Both coaches have done a fine job establishing themselves. Both schools should be (mostly) happy with their guys.
 
#95 ·
WH, You have to forgive us Spiders fans for not placing as much emphasis on rebounding. As you mentioned, Beilein's teams are notorious for losing the rebounding battle, but he wins (though struggled at Michigan last year). When Wainwright came in, many were excited for a tough, physical rebounding team. They got that to a certain extent. Wainwright even apparently dogged the Beilein players for being soft - though his NCAA team was all Beilein's players and he had little success with his players before bolting. Along comes Mooney and we start winning again after a few years - though losing the rebounding battle. So to Richmond fans it is not a 1:1 ratio for rebounding to winning. I think St. Mary's won because they had one guy inside we could not guard - and 4 guys spread on the floor that could shoot 40% from 3. I didn't see any other teams in that pod that could have presented this match up nightmare for Richmond. I was at that game and just could not see how you leave one of those shooters for a second.

I will say this, and maybe Muddy can help. If you take the rivals, scout and ESPN rankings of Dayton players vs. Richmond players the last 4 to 5 years and look at conference records I bet Mooney looks pretty good compared to Gregory.
 
#99 ·
I will say this, and maybe Muddy can help. If you take the rivals, scout and ESPN rankings of Dayton players vs. Richmond players the last 4 to 5 years and look at conference records I bet Mooney looks pretty good compared to Gregory.
I wouldn't doubt that. But i think the difference has been that Mooney's studs have been his guards. And BG's studs have been wings. It's a lot easier to look like a good coach when your two best and smartest players are your guards. BG hasn't had a strong PG yet. Roberts wasn't a great pure PG. He had to play there because everybody else sucked so badly at the position. BG has been making do with some very limited options at the PG spot. Granted, he's the one that's failed to land a top PG. But i think looking at the recruiting numbers doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.
 
#97 ·
Agree that it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Was just trying to convey that in the last 12 years of UR basketball, our teams have been most successful with the Mooney/Beilein systems of low turnovers and protecting the ball and not giving up easy hoops. So I'm predisposed to enjoying that style of play over one that is more aggressive, but also has more potential for breakdown and/or sloppiness, especially if it comes from guard play.

If anyone is interested, here is a brief video of Spiders' weight room work - the first guy on the bench press is frosh Derrick Williams from St. Anthony's HS in Jersey City. He's a tank. He might help with the rebounding situation in short order if he can carve out time for himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xdvUkA2_Z4&feature=sub
 
#98 ·
I am not sure Beilein's system is made for consistently deep postseason runs, but he's had a few excellent runs. Hard to argue.

Of course, the risky part of BG's system is not the defense or rebounding. It's the high-octane offense. I didnt think he had much choice with Warren running the show, however. He had to play to the team's strenths. The Dayton offense was more like Richmond when Brian Roberts was the featured guy.

I am eager to see Williams suit up. He's one of my freshman sleepers. A bigger Moliva with far more talent.
 
#100 ·
Question for all fans:

Since Majerus' situation has changed (expectations took a large hit), would a .500 season with this team be an indictment of him? Many fans have tempered their expectations from a Tournament bid to lesser goals, so it would seem that the pressure wouldn't be as high.
 
#101 ·
Not much love for Mark Schmidt out there. That's ok, because I'm not sure how far I'd move him up from the 9-12 rankings of him earlier in this thread, and he's only been on job for the Brown Indians for 3 seasons. But, he did take a 7 win team and get them to 15 wins in his second year, and got them to 8th place in the conference in his third year. Onward and upward, I hope.
 
#103 ·
Schmidt has a lot to prove after his terrible 2010 recruiting effort. While de Haas and Wright should be solid players, leaving three 'ships open is inexcusable. However, there is no denying that Schmidt has brought the Bonnies back to respectability. Back-to-back 15-win seasons is all right after the Solomon years, but it's time to take the next step. Hopefully he can bump it up to 17-18 wins this year and kick some ass in Andrew's senior campaign.
 
#102 ·
There are issues you can indict coaches for - suspect recruits who have no interest in actually attending school, tampering transcripts, paying players' handlers/family, etc. - but this situation doesn't affect my view of the way Majerus has been judged since his A10 tenure began, it seems just an unfortunate situation stemming from some yet-unknown behaviors which may or may not have been school/team/legal violations.

Just like blame for poor play can only be put to a certain extent on a coach, the same is true for personal conduct.

If there had been a consistent pattern of this under Rick throughout his career, you could conceivably cast stones but as far as I recall, that's not the case.
 
#106 ·
Schmidt seems to be struggling on the recruiting front. Wright and DeHaas may turn out to be good players, but I agree that you cannot just burn scholarships. If they do not pan out to be competent A10 guards, you are in a 2-3 year hole. Granted, the Carter situation may not have been Schmidt's fault. Still, you are left to wonder if he could not have done more to continue to build that relationship and monitor the situation. Unfortunately, these days you have to keep recruiting until the kids get to campus. You need to keep your pipeline full with at least options A and B at all 5 positions and an option C hopefully. I think its naive to go into seasons hoping no one gets hurt, transfers, underperforms, etc.
 
#107 ·
No question 23. It was a strange recruiting season for the Bonnies, and it is tough to tell how much was under Schmidt's control. Clearly, he did not want to be in a position of only having 10 scholarship players. And, it looks like second semester he'll have 11. The good thing is, he does not appear to be settling for lesser talent, like Solomon did before him.

As for the general comment on "struggling on the recruiting front", he has brought in players like Andrew Nicholson, Jon Hall, Chris Matthews, Michael Davenport, and Ogo Adegboye. We'll see how Wright and de Haas turn out. Think of where he started from.
 
#108 ·
True, I think Schmidt gets a long leash - he has gotten the Bonnies competitive in short order. Mooney had a ramp up period in which it seemed like a lot of the fan base was calling for his head. It will be interesting to see how Carter's career goes. He was walking in to a good situation at St. Bonaventure. If he goes to a BCS school he is going to be fighting for playing time in my opinion. With Ogo and Nicholson, I think you have an opportunity to exceed expectations, but need everything to go right. Slim margin for error I'm afraid.
 
#109 ·
You have to give Big Rick a pass for this year, but it's a small red flag. I wouldn't even go that far if not for the weird situation with the bank robbing recruit last year.

Maybe in his haste to rebuild he's taking kids he wouldn't have in the past. But most likely this completely surprised him too, you can never tell what kids that age will do. Even if like Mitchell they happen to look 45:)

I've been very impressed with RM and what he's done with the Bills. The future should be promising, and I'll bet this year will be better than expected.

Overall it sucks. I really liked Reed and especially Mitchell. Too bad they threw it all away with some terrible judgment and actions.
 
#110 ·
The Bonnie situation is a perfect example of why I am OK with over recruiting. You never know what is going to happen but with the way college basketball and recruiting is the roster is always in so much flux. A recruit won't be eligible, a guy will transfer, off the court issues may pop up, etc. Scholarships are too valuable to let some go unused.
 
#111 ·
At this point, I might have to flip flop Mack and Dunphy. Took a lot of heat for the Mack choice, but he has backed up my choice very well this season - in fact too well this past Saturday. X continues to pick up top 100 rated players, while the rest of the conference brings in one such player every 2-4 years if lucky. Everhart looks to make a major move up as well - I may even spell his name correctly next year :)
 
#113 ·
Fernandez hasn't been 100% healthy all year, and unlike Mack, Dunph doesn't rely on top 150 recruits. He's taking mostly recruits with none or low D-I offers. It's pretty pathetic if Mack isn't winning with top 100 recruits (See SJU and LaSalle)
 
#112 ·
i just re-read a lot of the thread and have come to two new conclusions -

1. I was ahead of my time and should be considered a sage on this board;
2. WH is a closet UD fan - to the point that I wonder if he isn't 4'7" tall and a close relative of Brian Gregory ;-)

The part about Dayton fans being clueless is not a new conclusion.
 
#115 ·
I thought Temple scored high level recruits on a regular basis. Maybe someone should start a 'Temple Recruiting' thread so I could do a better job of staying up on their progress on the recruiting trail.

I think you also have to give the coach a nod if he is landing top 150 recruits on a regular as well. That is a skill not all have.
 
#120 ·
I thought Temple scored high level recruits on a regular basis.
No, we dont. Lavoy is our only Rivals 150 player.

If Temple is not landing top recruits that is the program's problem. They are a huge name with new facilities. They have great tradition (even in the modern era) and are in an absolute hotbed for hoops talent. Chris Mack and even Brian Gregory outwork everyone in this league on the recruiting front. There is NO reason Temple doesn't recruit top 150 players and land them. Dunphy has not one excuse to play in recruiting.

This is not a slam on Dunphy, he is a great coach. I am sure he is recruiting the players he sees himself winning with. They have top of the A-10 talent every year. I have never heard him make an excuse about recruiting somehow being harder for Temple. However, there just is no excuse. You can still get outrecruited by Nova and bring in high level talent. Nova can only take so many Philly kids. Get after them.
First of all, we dont have new facilities. Our practice facility won't be done until next year. Second of all, it's not as simple as taking whoever Nova doesn't take. Nova isn't the only power six school that recruits here. We lost PA recruits to Syracuse, Pitt (x3), and WVU this year. We lost PA recruits to Syracuse, Pitt, VA Tech, and Wake last year. That doesn't include all of the other schools that recruit here like Georgetown, Duke, UNC, etc.

You sound like a Dayton fan - making excuses for your coach's shortcomings. Man up and admit Dunphy hasn't exactly gotten his team to perform to the level that was anticipated.
Not making excuses, but recruiting isn't Dunph's strength.
 
#116 ·
If Temple is not landing top recruits that is the program's problem. They are a huge name with new facilities. They have great tradition (even in the modern era) and are in an absolute hotbed for hoops talent. Chris Mack and even Brian Gregory outwork everyone in this league on the recruiting front. There is NO reason Temple doesn't recruit top 150 players and land them. Dunphy has not one excuse to play in recruiting.

This is not a slam on Dunphy, he is a great coach. I am sure he is recruiting the players he sees himself winning with. They have top of the A-10 talent every year. I have never heard him make an excuse about recruiting somehow being harder for Temple. However, there just is no excuse. You can still get outrecruited by Nova and bring in high level talent. Nova can only take so many Philly kids. Get after them.
 
#117 ·
Dunphy is a mediocre recruiter, he just makes up for it with his sheer basketball knowledge and ability to manage a game. He doesn't score alot of the top 150 guys, but he gets the best out of guys who are normally just around that threshold. He's not a bad recruiter at all, but he's not as good as Gregory or Mack either. I think he's getting a lot better though, it takes some adjusting after coaching in the Ivy League for over a decade.

He's in the running for Daniel Ochefu, who would be one of the best Temple recruits ever if he lands him. We'll see what happens.
 
#118 ·
It seems to me like Temple should have no problem recruiting. The name and Philadelphia region should be enough, but kids are dumb.

I still think Dunphy gets it done on the recruiting trail when it's all said and done though. Either that, or his staff is out of this world in terms of development. Will Cummings is a fairly big recruit for us. We'll see how that works out.
 
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