Dayton @ Xavier - Saturday, February 18th - Page 10 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

Rich · 02-20-2012, 02:08 PM

I think the difference is "they" all came from the same school(coach) and ended up at the same school. And for the record...I doubt X would have been sub .500 without them.

spicebosh · 02-20-2012, 02:12 PM

Ok, if you are going to speculate that X is less than .500 without them I will speculate on who X would have got instead. I am going to go with John Wall and Tyreke Evans, fantasy basketball is fun!

Rich · 02-20-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spicebosh

Ok, if you are going to speculate that X is less than .500 without them I will speculate on who X would have got instead. I am going to go with John Wall and Tyreke Evans, fantasy basketball is fun!

Re-read what I wrote...I said I doubt X would have been SUB .500.

spicebosh · 02-20-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Re-read what I wrote...I said I doubt X would have been SUB .500.

word

MudFlap · 02-20-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about 75's point? He is simply saying, X benefited greatly from Kelvin Sampson. It would be different if Holloway,Crawford, and Lavender were bums, but they all were/are excellent players. That's what makes it different from other transfers. Imagine Evan Turner, Mike Conley, and John Diebler transferring from Ohio St to Dayton, because Matta was an idiot...

And maybe Dayton is 9-16 w/o dilliard. Benefitted cuz Dilly didn't like his coach. Again, What's the Point?

And, oh, next year they have a reformed drunk/potboy coming in who might be pretty good. Chalk up another couple wins for UD transfers.

Bona84 · 02-20-2012, 03:21 PM

Kentucky benefits greatly from getting good players, too!

xavierhoops · 02-20-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I think the difference is "they" all came from the same school(coach) and ended up at the same school.

Next year, Xavier will have Christon and Reynolds, and if Lyons stays, all from the same school... that's right 3 kids from the same school and coach!! I can't wait to see the UD posters' imaginations and many "what-if analysis" then.

Muddy Waters · 02-20-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xavierhoops

Next year, Xavier will have Christon and Reynolds, and if Lyons stays, all from the same school...

that's right 3 kids from the same school and coach!!

Norman Plummer also played for Brewster (2002-03 season), but he liked partying even more than he liked basketball.

Plummer helped Brewster to a #10 final ranking, averaging 26.0 points and 9.1 rebounds a game.

He had 13 games of over 30 points in 2002-03 and was the leading scorer among New England prep schools.

Flyer75 · 02-20-2012, 04:37 PM

Look, ive already stipulated here that transfers happen....that isn't the issue. Rich is exactly right in his OSU example...I will be the first to admit good fortune for UD if that were to happen. Spice, if you've read any of my past posts on this you'll know I have flat out stated that every successful program in any sport needs some "LUCK˝. Now, ill agree you can make your own and good teams do....ive never denied that X didn't work to get those players, they didn't just fall out of the sky and land in Cincy. What I'm referring to is the scenario. I cant recall another scenario where THREE players from one coach who screwed up landed at the same school....not Duke, UNC or UK. When Dillard left SIU, 2-3 others did also out of that class which I believe was close to a Top 25 class....they all trsnsferered to different schools. That is the norm 99% of the time.

AdamtheFlyer · 02-20-2012, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

Our recruitment of Dillard helps mask a lot of issues in the transition from Gregory to Miller. The two decommitments we had when Gregory left should have hit us harder in the W/L column, but Dillard made us respectable this year. Archie has done a nice job of maximizing what he had to work with too. Losing Benson early this season was a double whammy. Not so bad this year, considering.....

Now it's up to Miller to restock the pipeline. The case could be made that we will have the best pg in the league going into next year, but we are going to have a load of brand new faces on the team. Even though we have two transfers practicing with the team this year and they are rumored to be good, I'm not ready to walk out on the thin rod of hope yet. Kavanaugh, Gavrilovic and Benson are good centers/forwards, but not dominating, so I feel good on that front. We have the best pg and a good group of bigs. What will the 2,3 and 4 positions look like for us? Anyones guess.

As much as Fabrizius hurt us on defense and missing a few bunnies at X, I liked having a big who could shoot from any range. If he was not forced into playing more of a post position and allowed to be the role player he was meant to be, he would be more fondly thought of by UD fans. I'll take a 6'9" guy who can knock them down with regularity any day of the week. He made defenses stretch for us this year.

The 4 spot will be Benson and the two freshmen from Columbus. The 5 spot belongs to the Ivory Towers.

There will be newcomers, but they have the most important positions covered. If a coach can enter a season feeling good about the 1, 4, and 5 spots, his hair will stay dark and full. Archie will have arguably the best PG in the league, and above average returning production in the post, with talented freshman backing up in both areas. That's the dream.

As much as the game evolves over time, there is still one certainty. If you have a good PG and good post players, you will win a lot of games. Scoring guard gunners and swing men grow on trees. I didn't dread losing Chris Wright, and as much as I love Chris Johnson, I don't dread losing him either. They're replaceable. I still don't think UD has fully replaced Charles Little's ability to get buckets seemingly at will inside. Benson was getting there before the injury. You combine that with the instability and mediocrity at PG after Ramod Marshall's graduation, and it's easy to see why UD was so hot and cold under BG. The depth of big men and having a senior PG like Dillard next year should finally get that back. How good will the team be? Too early to tell, and too many potential variables. But I like, nay, LOVE, the roster construction.

Flyer75 · 02-20-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamtheFlyer

The 4 spot will be Benson and the two freshmen from Columbus. The 5 spot belongs to the Ivory Towers.

There will be newcomers, but they have the most important positions covered. If a coach can enter a season feeling good about the 1, 4, and 5 spots, his hair will stay dark and full. Archie will have arguably the best PG in the league, and above average returning production in the post, with talented freshman backing up in both areas. That's the dream.

As much as the game evolves over time, there is still one certainty. If you have a good PG and good post players, you will win a lot of games. Scoring guard gunners and swing men grow on trees. I didn't dread losing Chris Wright, and as much as I love Chris Johnson, I don't dread losing him either. They're replaceable. I still don't think UD has fully replaced Charles Little's ability to get buckets seemingly at will inside. Benson was getting there before the injury. You combine that with the instability and mediocrity at PG after Ramod Marshall's graduation, and it's easy to see why UD was so hot and cold under BG. The depth of big men and having a senior PG like Dillard next year should finally get that back.

Archie should have more options next year and I think that's what you're getting at. Robinson looks like he can play the 4 and 3. Derenbecker the 3 and 2. Benson the 4 and 5. He will have a legit PG backing up a Dillard.

Rich · 02-20-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudFlap

And maybe Dayton is 9-16 w/o dilliard. Benefitted cuz Dilly didn't like his coach. Again, What's the Point?

And, oh, next year they have a reformed drunk/potboy coming in who might be pretty good. Chalk up another couple wins for UD transfers.

Mud,

You are making Flyer75's point for him. Dayton would be MUCH worse off without Dillard! Now, where would X be without Holloway, Crawford, Lavender? If we agree that Dayton would be worse, is it not fair to say that X would be worse off without them. He is not contesting that transfers don't happen. His point is that 3 "studs" leave a program/coach and end up at another (the same)program, because of "stupid" rule, that no longer exists. (I'm not sure why Lavender left Oklahoma, can't recall the details). I wouldn't call either team lucky in getting the transfers, "fortunate" would be a better description.

AdamtheFlyer · 02-20-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer75

Archie should have more options next year and I think that's what you're getting at. Robinson looks like he can play the 4 and 3. Derenbecker the 3 and 2. Benson the 4 and 5. He will have a legit PG backing up a Dillard.

Actually, the reason for my optimism will be the lack of flexibility in the roster. Dillard's got the PG spot. It's his. Benson and the frosh have the 4. The Ivory Towers have the 5. The addition of Sanford and likely another freshmen or JUCO guard will lock down the 2. Derenbecker and Oliver have the 3. Archie will have a two and sometimes three deep depth chart at every position.

That's roster stability unseen at UD in many, many years. Guys will know their roles each and every time they step on the floor. No more plugging Luke Fab into any hole. No more asking an underclassmen like Oliver to fill holes in the 2, 3 and 4 spots. No more having a SG like Parker fill in at PG for 15-20 minutes a night. No more having your best player (Wright) without a true position on the floor. Gregory's biggest flaw at UD was not defining Chris Wright by locking him into a role and allowing him to become great at something. Archie won't even have to make those definitions. They were done in recruiting, both his own and with what is left over from BG.

Flyer75 · 02-20-2012, 05:05 PM

Good points Adam.

FlyersandTEA4LIFE · 02-20-2012, 05:14 PM

One thing is for sure. Archie is an incredible coac, has proven he can recruit with the best of them, and will be at ud for a very very long time!

02-20-2012, 02:08 PM	#136 (permalink)
Rich 6th Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 261 Rep Power: 8871	Re: Dayton @ Xavier - Saturday, February 18th I think the difference is "they" all came from the same school(coach) and ended up at the same school. And for the record...I doubt X would have been sub .500 without them.

02-20-2012, 02:12 PM	#137 (permalink)
spicebosh Rookie Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 83 Rep Power: 0	Re: Dayton @ Xavier - Saturday, February 18th Ok, if you are going to speculate that X is less than .500 without them I will speculate on who X would have got instead. I am going to go with John Wall and Tyreke Evans, fantasy basketball is fun!

02-20-2012, 03:21 PM	#141 (permalink)
Bona84 Star Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 2,763 Rep Power: 261039	Re: Dayton @ Xavier - Saturday, February 18th Kentucky benefits greatly from getting good players, too! __________________ Bona84

02-20-2012, 04:37 PM	#144 (permalink)
Flyer75 Star Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,836 Rep Power: 37278	Re: Dayton @ Xavier - Saturday, February 18th Look, ive already stipulated here that transfers happen....that isn't the issue. Rich is exactly right in his OSU example...I will be the first to admit good fortune for UD if that were to happen. Spice, if you've read any of my past posts on this you'll know I have flat out stated that every successful program in any sport needs some "LUCK˝. Now, ill agree you can make your own and good teams do....ive never denied that X didn't work to get those players, they didn't just fall out of the sky and land in Cincy. What I'm referring to is the scenario. I cant recall another scenario where THREE players from one coach who screwed up landed at the same school....not Duke, UNC or UK. When Dillard left SIU, 2-3 others did also out of that class which I believe was close to a Top 25 class....they all trsnsferered to different schools. That is the norm 99% of the time. Last edited by Flyer75; 02-20-2012 at 04:44 PM.

02-20-2012, 05:05 PM	#149 (permalink)
Flyer75 Star Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,836 Rep Power: 37278	Re: Dayton @ Xavier - Saturday, February 18th Good points Adam.

02-20-2012, 05:14 PM	#150 (permalink)
FlyersandTEA4LIFE 6th Man Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 423 Rep Power: 1345	Re: Dayton @ Xavier - Saturday, February 18th One thing is for sure. Archie is an incredible coac, has proven he can recruit with the best of them, and will be at ud for a very very long time! __________________ Dayton will beat Xavier in Cincinnati in 2014. Dayton will beat Xavier in Dayton in 2013. Dayton will beat Xavier in Brooklyn in 2013.

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