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Old 05-08-2012, 06:59 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by Knobby View Post
Sorry - not complaining - it happened - it sucked - most of us have moved on. Umass has been weak to poor (other than two of the Ford years and last year). We have watched a lot of futility and inconsistent play in the last 13 years. Frankly, I would have aspired to be Dayton for most of that time. This year we achieved more than the mighty Flyers (despite receiving a head to head whuppin).

Now we move on and I feel like we will move past you and hang with Xavier, Butler and St Joe's near the top of the conference, I am sure there could be a bump or two in the road and Dayton may even have a cup of coffee in the top 4 once in a while, but by and large Dayton is and will live up to its annual true to form "A-10 Middler" that they always are --- but never come to terms with that fact.

Enjoy your lifetime of mediocrity.......
You are comical. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't both teams finished 9 - 7 in conference last year? That's not saying much for UMass considering Dayton's talent level was not impressive and they only had 9 scholarship players dressed during conference play. I can understand the Xavier fans talking smack but your teams have sucked a majority of the times over the past 14 to 15 years. When I say suck, I mean quite a few losing records and just occasionally even going to the same lowly NIT tournament that Dayton goes to just about every year. Dayton's Brian Gregory led teams were one thing but I would bet on an Archie Miller team just about any year over a Derek Kellogg team.

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Old 05-15-2012, 10:47 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by CBUS View Post
You are comical. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't both teams finished 9 - 7 in conference last year? That's not saying much for UMass considering Dayton's talent level was not impressive and they only had 9 scholarship players dressed during conference play. I can understand the Xavier fans talking smack but your teams have sucked a majority of the times over the past 14 to 15 years. When I say suck, I mean quite a few losing records and just occasionally even going to the same lowly NIT tournament that Dayton goes to just about every year. Dayton's Brian Gregory led teams were one thing but I would bet on an Archie Miller team just about any year over a Derek Kellogg team.
Really? We were picked to come in 12th - and deservedly so. Umass was coming from a very dark place and lost their top scorer with no answer as to who was filling that gap; and a transfer point guard with no concrete evidence that he would be able to settle this sinking ship. Umass far exceeded everyone's expectations. Dayton was picked 7th (I think) and some services even put them in the top 4 with an outside shot at the NCAA Tourney. Umass lost two significant contributors as well (including their only real back up at center and theri best defender). Even you should understand the difference between a team on the rise versus a team flat-lining.

As for the two coaches, I'll take my chances with DK. Miller didn't do anything last year to improve on or surpass Gregory's performance..... In fact it looked just like a Gregory team. Nice start, crappy middle (with every excuse in the book), a decent win or two near the end to get everyone's hopes up, then a dissapointing finish - that is Dayton basketball 2002 - 2012.

Actually i would rather have some peaks and valleys. Granted we have been in a deep valley for a while, but we are climbing out now. In the mean time Lucy keeps pulling that ball away just as Dayton is about to kick it - every time.....
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:07 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by BlueBaron on May 16, 2012 View Post

Dayton's roster is shaping up nicely. I could easily see them in the NCAA tourney next year.
I agree. Updated on Page 1 of this thread:


Dayton Flyers 2012-13 Roster
Code:
    Player            Class      Pos.  Height  Weight    Hometown
      
 1. Matt Kavanaugh    Senior      C    6'-9"   250 lbs.  Centerville, OH
 2. Alex Gavrilovic   Sophomore   C    6'-9"   230 lbs.  Strasbourg, France

 3. Josh Benson       RS Senior  PF    6'-9"   223 lbs.  Dayton, OH
 4. Devon Scott       Freshman   PF    6'-8"   220 lbs.  Columbus, OH

 5. Jalen Robinson    Freshman   CF    6'-8"   220 lbs.  Columbus, OH
 6. Devin Oliver      Junior     CF    6'-7"   200 lbs.  Kalamazoo, MI

 7. Matt Derenbecker  RS Soph. SF/SG   6'-7"   185 lbs.  Metairie, LA
 8. Dyshawn Pierre    Fresh.   SF/SG   6'-6"   210 lbs.  Whitby, Ontario 

 9. Jordan Sibert     RS Soph.   SG    6'-4"   185 lbs.  Cincinnati, OH (Will sit out 2012-13 season.)
10. Vee Sanford       RS Junior  CG    6'-3"   180 lbs.  Lexington, KY  

11. Kevin Dillard     RS Senior  PG    6'-0"   170 lbs.  Homewood, IL 
12. Khari Price       Freshman   PG    6'-0"   175 lbs.  Slidell, LA

Scholarships presently available for HS Class of 2012 players or transfers = 1.

Probable Depth Chart* (Position: starter, first off the bench at each position.)
C: Matt Kavanaugh, Alex Gavrilovic, Josh Benson, and Devon Scott.

PF: Josh Benson, Devin Oliver, Devon Scott, Jalen Robinson, and Alex Gavrilovic.

SF: Matt Derenbecker, Jalen Robinson, Devin Oliver, and Dyshawn Pierre.

SG: Vee Sanford, Dyshawn Pierre, Matt Derenbecker, and Kevin Dillard.

PG: Kevin Dillard, Khari Price, and Vee Sanford.

* Reserve roles will likely vary, depending on heights and strengths of opponents' players at each position.

Dayton Flyers Roster Sorted By Graduating Class

Code:
Seniors - UD Class of 2013

1. Josh Benson       PF    6'-9"   223 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged 10.9 points and 5.2 rebounds)*
2. Matt Kavanaugh     C    6'-9"   250 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged  9.0 points and 5.9 rebounds)
3. Kevin Dillard     PG    6'-0"   170 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged 13.3 points and 6.0 assists)
 * Josh Benson missed all 16 A10 games, the A10 Tournament, and the NIT due to a knee injury.    

Juniors - UD Class of 2014

1. Devin Oliver      CF    6'-7"   200 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged  4.9 points and 5.0 rebounds)
2. Vee Sanford       CG    6'-3"   180 lbs.  (2011-12: sat out transfer year)

Sophomores - UD Class of 2015

1. Alex Gavrilovic    C    6'-9"   230 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged  4.0 points and 2.8 rebounds)
2. Matt Derenbecker SF/SG  6'-7"   185 lbs.  (2011-12: sat out transfer year)
3. Jordan Sibert     SG    6'-4"   185 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged  3.0 points and 1.4 rebounds) 
 
High School Seniors - UD Class of 2016

1. Devon Scott       PF    6'-8"   220 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged 18 points and 12 rebounds)   
2. Jalen Robinson    CF    6'-8"   220 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged 19 points and 11 rebounds)
3. Dyshawn Pierre  SF/SG   6'-6"   210 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged ?? points and ?? rebounds)
4. Khari Price       PG    6'-0"   175 lbs.  (2011-12: averaged 18 points and 5.6 assists)

Dayton Flyers 2011-12 Sortable Stats (Yahoo!)


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Old 05-16-2012, 07:09 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

Jalen Robinson playing SF? Devin Oliver playing PF? I don't see that happening. Switch Robinson and DO on the depth chart, then we can talk.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:11 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Arrow Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

Robinson has said he would like to play SF and Oliver played mainly PF when Benson went down although I would say he is more of a SF.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:14 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by Flyer75 View Post
Robinson has said he would like to play SF.
It's nice that he wants to, but do you really see him coming off the bench at SF instead of DO? DO is not really an option at PF considering the size of Robinson and Scott (assuming they're ready to contribute strongly as freshmen). I don't think anyone is taking his minutes away after seeing the energy he gave the team toward the end of last season. I guess he could get some minutes at SG, but with his handle, that seems a little frightening.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:17 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by bprichard View Post
It's nice that he wants to, but do you really see him coming off the bench at SF instead of DO? DO is not really an option at PF considering the size of Robinson and Scott (assuming they're ready to contribute strongly as freshmen). I don't think anyone is taking his minutes away after seeing the energy he gave the team toward the end of last season. I guess he could get some minutes at SG, but with his handle, that seems a little frightening.
I don't see it this year as a freshmen. As good as our freshmen appear to be, none of them may get a lot of PT this year unless injury or foul trouble. So in essence I pretty much agree with you but I can see Robinson solidifying the SF spot for us in a year or two.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:20 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by Flyer75 View Post
I don't see it this year as a freshmen. As good as our freshmen appear to be, none of them may get a lot of PT this year unless injury or foul trouble.
I think I share your assessment. But I think some of the freshmen are going to have to see some minutes if the Flyers are going to succeed. Price is going to by necessity see some minutes unless he's not ready at all, which I think is possible. I'm comfortable with Sanford as a backup PG, but then who is playing shooting guard? Oliver? That scares me? Pierre? I know that he can play it, but it's not his natural position and he's a huge unknown at this point (although I think his international experience is a big plus, since it's much more of a team game than AAU). I think one of Robinson and Scott is going to need to eat up some minutes down low too.

Hopefully, one or more of the freshmen can contribute immediately. If not, it's going to be a long season.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:26 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by bprichard View Post
I think I share your assessment. But I think some of the freshmen are going to have to see some minutes if the Flyers are going to succeed. Price is going to by necessity see some minutes unless he's not ready at all, which I think is possible. I'm comfortable with Sanford as a backup PG, but then who is playing shooting guard? Oliver? That scares me? Pierre? I know that he can play it, but it's not his natural position and he's a huge unknown at this point (although I think his international experience is a big plus, since it's much more of a team game than AAU). I think one of Robinson and Scott is going to need to eat up some minutes down low too.

Hopefully, one or more of the freshmen can contribute immediately. If not, it's going to be a long season.
Valid points. I think we have some pretty versatile options, even Derenbecker at the SG as long as Oliver is out there too to switch up on defense at the other end. Just gotta pray Dillard stays healthy. I'm not worried about any other position.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:28 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

We only have a few knowns on the team. Even the recovery of Benson has it's question marks. The big known is that Dillard is going to be one of the best, if not the best pg in the league. (I don't know what VCU has next year and the guy at UMass is impressive sometimes.) That's a great start. The offense is just great with Dillard calling the shots, creating and passing.

Will these new guys be able to play defense? Will Archie get them to play defense? To me, that is the biggest question mark. We haven't played defense to the level we are accustomed to seeing so far under Archie, IMO. That has to be fixed.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:30 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by Flyer75 View Post
Valid points. I think we have some pretty versatile options, even Derenbecker at the SG as long as Oliver is out there too to switch up on defense at the other end. Just gotta pray Dillard stays healthy. I'm not worried about any other position.
You're right. I forgot that Derenbecker is a valid option at SG. I think he can kill it on the offensive end at SG, but he'll definitely need to switch off on the A-10's small fast guards. Oliver can definitely handle them.

I feel like Dillard had to do too much for the team last year. By the end of the season, he looked beat up and rundown, although he still put in some strong performances. I'd love to see Price take off some of the load, but it doesn't seem likely. If Dillard gets injured, the season is over.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:42 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by bprichard View Post

Jalen Robinson playing SF? Devin Oliver playing PF?

I don't see that happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer75 View Post

Robinson has said he would like to play SF and Oliver played mainly PF when Benson went down although I would say he is more of a SF.
Good answer, Flyer75 - I couldn't have put it better myself, but there's more to consider.

The Probable Depth Chart I posted above is nothing more than informed speculation on my part with the following caveat: "Reserve roles will likely vary, depending on heights and strengths of opponents' players at each position."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Waters View Post

The Columbus Dispatch All-Metro Team (Steve Blackledge, The Columbus Dispatch - March 24, 2012)




Members of the Dispatch All-Metro boys basketball team, from left:
co-Player of the Year Jalen Robinson, Northland . . .



"I see myself playing the three spot (small forward) at Dayton," said Robinson, "so I spent most of the offseason focusing on my foot speed, shooting, dribbling, and mobility."

"That applies to guarding (small forwards), and having another big guy like Devon Scott as a teammate allowed me to play my natural position quite a bit."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AP All-Ohio Division I Boys Basketball Honors (Cleveland Plain Dealer - March 19, 2012)

COLUMBUS, Ohio – The 2011-2012 Associated Press Division I boys All-Ohio high school basketball teams, based on the recommendations of a state media panel:

FIRST TEAM

Jalen Robinson, Columbus Northland, 6-8, sr., 19.1;
Josh Lemons, Cincinnati La Salle, 5-11, sr., 18.0; Marc Loving, Toledo St. John's, 6-8, jr., 22.9; Justin Fritts, Mentor, 6-2, sr., 28.1; David Walker, Stow, 6-7, sr., 25.6

PLAYERS OF THE YEAR: Jalen Robinson, Columbus Northland; Marc Loving, Toledo St. John's; Justin Fritts, Mentor.

Good college basketball coaches think about not only the upcoming season, but also about developing his players for future seasons.

Devon Scott, Jalen Robinson, and Dyshawn Pierre will all be freshmen in 2012-13, and will be the core of Archie Miller's senior class in the 2015-16 season. In the long run, it would be advantageous for the Flyers if Scott, Robinson, and Pierre played three different positions so that all three of them can be Miller's staters in 2015-16.

Therefore, I strongly suspect that Miller will "downsize" all three of them in the best long-term interests of the team. To wit:

Code:

Player           Height    High School Position    College Position

Devon Scott       6'-8"          Center             Power Forward

Jalen Robinson    6'-8"    PF and Small Forward     Small Forward

Dyshawn Pierre    6'-6"      Small Forward          Shooting Guard
. . . along with the expectation that either Khari Price or a yet-to-be-signed PG will start in 2015-16, and a yet-to-be-signed center (taller than Devon Scott) will start in the 5-spot in 2015-16.


Concerning 6'-7" Devin Oliver playing the 4-spot, one of my all-time favorite Flyers comes to mind: 6'-7" PF Erv Giddings.


6'-7" PF Erv Giddings - Career Stats (Per Game)

Code:
Season   Minutes  Rebounds  Points

1974-75    11.9     3.2       4.1
1975-76    34.9    10.9      12.2
1976-77    33.6    10.9      15.0
1977-78    31.6     9.8      14.3

Concerning 6'-8" Jalen Robinson playing the 3-spot, please recall this excerpt from Steve Blackledge's March 24th article:

Quote:
"That applies to guarding (small forwards), and having another big guy like Devon Scott as a teammate allowed me to play my natural position (small forward) quite a bit."
Reading between the lines, it appears that Archie Miller told Jalen Robinson and Northland's basketball coach that he wants to develop Robinson as a SF at UD (and did so before Robinson's senior year of high school even began), and as a direct result of those conversations:

(1) Jalen Robinson really wants to develop into a good college SF, and

(2) Northland's basketball coach gave Robinson many opportunities to play SF during his senior year, despite a 6'-8" high school player usually being limited to the 4 and 5 spots.


Concerning 6'-6" Dyshawn Pierre playing the 2-spot, a 6'-6" SG would be a luxury the Dayton Flyers have never had. Count on Miller & Co. to do everything they can to help Dyshawn to develop a good jump shot with range and confidence, and Dyshawn to put in the necessary hours of practice to make it happen.

Even without a good jump shot, Dyshawn Pierre recorded multiple triple-doubles and a 40-point game this past season. That's a very good starting point.

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Old 05-17-2012, 07:16 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Waters View Post

Concerning 6'-7" Devin Oliver playing the 4-spot, one of my all-time favorite Flyers comes to mind: 6'-7" PF Erv Giddings.


6'-7" PF Erv Giddings - Career Stats (Per Game)

Code:
Season   Minutes  Rebounds  Points

1974-75    11.9     3.2       4.1
1975-76    34.9    10.9      12.2
1976-77    33.6    10.9      15.0
1977-78    31.6     9.8      14.3

Concerning 6'-8" Jalen Robinson playing the 3-spot, please recall this excerpt from Steve Blackledge's March 24th article:



Reading between the lines, it appears that Archie Miller told Jalen Robinson and Northland's basketball coach that he wants to develop Robinson as a SF at UD (and did so before Robinson's senior year of high school even began), and as a direct result of those conversations:

(1) Jalen Robinson really wants to develop into a good college SF, and

(2) Northland's basketball coach gave Robinson many opportunities to play SF during his senior year, despite a 6'-8" high school player usually being limited to the 4 and 5 spots.


Concerning 6'-6" Dyshawn Pierre playing the 2-spot, a 6'-6" SG would be a luxury the Dayton Flyers have never had. Count on Miller & Co. to do everything they can to help Dyshawn to develop a good jump shot with range and confidence, and Dyshawn to put in the necessary hours of practice to make it happen.

Even without a good jump shot, Dyshawn Pierre recorded multiple triple-doubles and a 40-point game this past season. That's a very good starting point.
Unless DO has bulked up magnificently over the summer, he's not a valid option at PF. That's the difference between him and Giddings. And you really think that a project freshman SF will be the first option at SF over proven positive DO? Curious thinking.

As for Pierre, I wouldn't mind having a 6'6" slasher at SG, as long as he's complimented by a shooter at SF like Derenbecker.
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:41 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

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Originally Posted by bprichard View Post

Unless DO [Devin Oliver] has bulked up magnificently over the summer, he's not a valid option at PF.

Dayton 67, George Washington 50 (ESPN Box Score - March 6, 2012)


Dayton Flyers - Starters' Scoring

Code:
Pos.  Flyer           Minutes  Rebounds  Points

PG    Kevin Dillard     37        3        13

SG    Paul Williams     30        4        10 

SF    Chris Johnson     35        7         9

PF    Devin Oliver      37        8        19    (8-13 FGs, 1-1 3-Pts. and 2-3 FTs)

 C    Matt Kavanaugh    20        2         4

bprichard - you really have no idea of what you're talking about.



Last edited by Muddy Waters; 05-18-2012 at 08:59 AM. Reason: formatting correction.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:39 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Re: 2012-2013 Dayton Flyers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Waters View Post
Dayton 67, George Washington 50 (ESPN Box Score - March 6, 2012)


Dayton Flyers - Starters' Scoring

Code:
Pos.  Flyer           Minutes  Rebounds  Points

PG    Kevin Dillard     37        3        13

SG    Paul Williams     30        4        10 

SF    Chris Johnson     35        7         9

PF    Devin Oliver      37        8        19    (8-13 FGs, 1-1 3-Pts. and 2-3 FTs)

 C    Matt Kavanaugh    20        2         4

bprichard - you really have no idea of what you're talking about.

Take a statistics course and figure out what a valid sample size is. One game and his starting position don't exactly cut it.
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