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Old 04-02-2012, 06:21 AM   #166 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

Creighton is just too far from everyone. From a basketball standpoint they would obviously be a nice fit but they are geographically undesirable to the A10.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:07 AM   #167 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

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Originally Posted by Muddy Waters View Post
http://gobonnies.com/sports/m-baskbl...s/teamcume.htm

The Bonnies drew an average of 3926 fans per home game.


http://www.wolframalpha.com/entities...sity/21/vr/gj/

St. Bonaventure has 2472 students.


Attendance/enrolment ratio = 3926 / 2472 = 1.59


Excellent attendance/enrolment ratio, but not good enough to compensate for the fact that St. Bonaventure University is in Olean, and nobody wants the hassle of traveling to Olean to play in front of 3926 fans.
Current undergrad enrollment (which is what was used for Butler) is about 1900. But, I'll give you the others, which all have very sizable graduate populations.

This is one of the reasons I, personally, would be happier with Siena than the Virginia state schools. I like schools that are small, private and have campuses (as opposed to the higher commuter population of the larger schools). I understand financially and for league stability how the others make sense, but in an ideal world, Bonaventure is part of a league of like minded, similar institutions that is way better than the MAAC.

And the fact that no one wants to play in Olean is part of the charm.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:24 AM   #168 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

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Creighton is just too far from everyone. From a basketball standpoint they would obviously be a nice fit but they are geographically undesirable to the A10.
I still think if you make two separate divisions, where an overwhelming majority of games are against divisional foes, it would work just fine. Use a travel partners arrangement and Omaha is a short one hour flight from St Louis.

When it comes to culture, Creighton's is probably most similar of all of the proposed adds to the rest of the league. I suspect it wouldn't take long at all for really good rivalries to develop between Creighton and schools like Xavier, SLU and Dayton.

I'd like to see where Creighton falls out if included in Muddy's charts. We boast a Top 10 attendance and would have an attendance ratio of 2.0 if including graduate students and close to a rather stunning 4.0 if you include undergrads only. Creighton isn't a commuter school either.

If it isn't an option, how about some sort of scheduling alliance/challenge event between the A10 and MVC?
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:31 AM   #169 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

Ok I will accept that no one wants to go to Olean, but who in their right mind wants to go to Dayton? What is there? I love how the criteria for discussion always changes to fit the conversation on this board. I live in the NY metro area and to most of my friends Dayton would be as backwater as Olean is. You guys have a great A-10 program and great fan support, but I hate to break it to you Dayton Ohio is not the center of civilization.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:37 AM   #170 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

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. . . but who in their right mind wants to go to Dayton?
Tens of thousands of college basketball fans, and more years than not, the NCAA Tournament.


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Originally Posted by WLK View Post

You guys have a great A-10 program and great fan support . . .
Indeed.


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Originally Posted by WLK View Post

I live in the NY metro area and to most of my friends Dayton would be as backwater as Olean is.
If I lived in the NY metro area, I'm quite certain that I would feel the same way about Dayton.

Dayton is a struggling rust-belt city of diminishing means and prosperity. But in the center of Dayton is an outstanding university which bears the city's name, and surrounding Dayton is a ring of reasonably affluent suburbs where the thousands of Dayton Flyers season ticket holders live.

Dayton is what it is - a city full of rabid college basketball fans who will support any and all basketball games and tournaments that are played at UD Arena, which has hosted more NCAA Tournament games than any other venue in the country.

Five years ago, more than 9,000 basketball fans showed up at UD Arena to watch Trotwood-Madison High School (Chris Wright) play Dunbar High School (Josh Benson).

How many regular-season HS basketball games in the NY metro area have you heard of that attracted more than 9,000 paying fans ?


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I hate to break it to you Dayton Ohio is not the center of civilization.
No one, and I mean no one, has ever said it was.


But this Message Board isn't about "the center of civilization" (which is London or Rome, BTW) - it's about college basketball.

. . . and for support of college basketball, Dayton hits a home run every time.






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Old 04-02-2012, 09:00 AM   #171 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

Cincinnati is becoming a suburb of Dayton.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:43 AM   #172 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

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Cincinnati is becoming a suburb of Dayton.
I think you got that backwards.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:06 AM   #173 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

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Cincinnati is becoming a suburb of Dayton.
Lol at that one. They are essentially merging, though, with the suburbs running together.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:55 AM   #174 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

I'm not pretending my hometown area is special, but there are over 800,000 people within a 20 minute or so drive from downtown Dayton. Two of the major highways in America intersect in Dayton. One of the most important military bases we have is in Dayton, which is leading growth for the area in aerospace engineering and manufacturing. Let's not pretend Dayton is a one horse town. It's down, sure, but it's still here.

And yes, Dayton and Cincinnati are basically the same metro area now. I-275 bleeds into West Chester/Mason, which goes into Lebanon/Monroe, straight to Springboro and into the Dayton 'burbs. The areas between the Cincy and Dayton city limits are growing because no one really wants to live inside the Dayton or Cincy city limits anymore. Families have one spouse working in Dayton and the other in Cincy. I live about 5 miles south of Dayton and can get to downtown Cincy in about 35-40 minutes, barring traffic, and see very little farmland. It's the same metro area. And neither side acknowledges Middletown, because gross. Now there is a desolate, one horse town.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:12 AM   #175 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

Don't know a whole lot about the Dayton area, and certainly Mason, Wester Chester etc are very popular areas especially for families, but not sure I'd agree with "no one really wants to live inside the Cincy city limits anymore." There are some very nice, very affluent areas within the city limits.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:30 AM   #176 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

There are nice areas in Dayton, too, but like anywhere else, the trend tends to be toward the suburbs. (I live in the Cincy city limits, FWIW.)
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:43 AM   #177 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

I thought the comment about Olean over Dayton was an April Fools Joke. Despite the success this season's team enjoyed, the A-10 stature and probably their ability to command a better tv contract would be better served if St. Bonaventure left taking Fordham, LaSalle and George Washington with them. For 2011 the Bonnies averaged 3,600/home game; Fordham-1900;GW 1800; and LaSalle 2200. In addition to Butler, bring in Old Dominion 7,700/game; Sienna-7600, VCU-6600 and GMU 5900. The new teams are by and large stronger from year to year and they draw far better.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:54 AM   #178 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

Dayton is to Cincinnati what akron is to Cleveland.

If I were a impartial observer having to choose between living in Cinci or Dayton where would I go? better yet. If im a college basketball recruit, what City would I rather live in? I have never heard of Dayton being a destination city. Cincinnati has a hell of a lot more to offer then dayton in terms of what college kids can do. Yes you have a large fan base of basketball nuts, but as we can see, thats not getting elite out of area talent to go to Dayton. Recruits just don't find dayton attractive unless they have some sort of connection to the place.

Anyway, I'll back to the topic to please muddy and spare him one of his back to topic posts. I heard that at this moment only Butler is making the moves to be in the A10 to fill the void of temple. VCU and GMU are not being considered at this time. I heard that as other schools with football aspirations such as UMASS and Charlotte leave they would reopen the subject and determine if they want to go ahead with keeping the number at 14 or let the conference move down to 12. Im not sure how much of that is true or not, but thats what I have heard.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:06 PM   #179 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

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I thought the comment about Olean over Dayton was an April Fools Joke. Despite the success this season's team enjoyed, the A-10 stature and probably their ability to command a better tv contract would be better served if St. Bonaventure left taking Fordham, LaSalle and George Washington with them. For 2011 the Bonnies averaged 3,600/home game; Fordham-1900;GW 1800; and LaSalle 2200. In addition to Butler, bring in Old Dominion 7,700/game; Sienna-7600, VCU-6600 and GMU 5900. The new teams are by and large stronger from year to year and they draw far better.
Are you seriously suggesting that the team that won the men's A10 postseason championship and women's regular season championship should be kicked from the league... You sir are delusional.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:15 PM   #180 (permalink)
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Re: CBS Sports: VCU, George Mason, Butler in discussions to join Atlantic 10

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I thought the comment about Olean over Dayton was an April Fools Joke. Despite the success this season's team enjoyed, the A-10 stature and probably their ability to command a better tv contract would be better served if St. Bonaventure left taking Fordham, LaSalle and George Washington with them. For 2011 the Bonnies averaged 3,600/home game; Fordham-1900;GW 1800; and LaSalle 2200. In addition to Butler, bring in Old Dominion 7,700/game; Sienna-7600, VCU-6600 and GMU 5900. The new teams are by and large stronger from year to year and they draw far better.
I really don't care if we're talking about the sleepiest hamlet in North America, Dayton shouldn't be talking jive about location to anyone. Repeated conference seasons of teetering on that 7-9 brink can produce crankiness, though.
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