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Old 05-15-2012, 03:43 PM   #31 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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UMass is by no means a shoo in for #1. St. Joes is more talented than they are and Saint Louis is far better coached. Going to the semis of the NIT doesn't exactly mean they're going to be world beaters
That might have been the dumbest statement I've ever heard on this forum, which says quite a lot considering the fact that we have all these Muddies, Steves, and Temple fans.

St. Joes is not more talented. Just look across the roster. Chaz>Tay Jones. Jesse Morgan>Langston Galloway. I'll give ya CJ Aiken over any big man we have, though watch out for Maxie Esho and Cady Lalanne in the coming years. And then Quarles vs Putney isn't even close. Putney>>>>Quarles easily. AND we also have way more depth than them. UMass is no question most talented in the A-10.

St. Louis is far better coached. Not so sure about that. Majerus is a great coach, but you're not giving Kellogg enough credit. I have no idea why Kellogg still has this reputation of being a bad coach... What happened with that great Rick Majerus defense when we played them head-to-head? Oh yeah, our offense tore it apart. Overall the Billikens are better coached than UMass, but, as proven by the head-to-head, the gap isn't very far at all.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:00 PM   #32 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Originally Posted by Flyer75 View Post
And you forgot yet another player that in his last 8-10 games put almost identical numbers to the mighty Dez Wells. Ive not even mentioned incoming freshmen yet.

Maybe just maybe players improve under Archie unlike they did under Gregory.

This team will start 3 seniors, a 4th year junior and a 3rd year soph.
How'd you do the last 8-10 games? Don't see the "talent" you do, I guess, except for KD. As I've said b4, they will have to play great defense to finish top 5. I think they will score, just see the other teams scoring much MORE.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:02 PM   #33 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

It really is a crapshoot this year but it's better that way.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:25 PM   #34 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Originally Posted by seattlespider View Post
Richmond is tough to place because even though we didn't lose much (Garrett was a non-factor on offense, and Martel and Duinker never really reached their potential), we are still EXTREMELY young. Darien Brother is our only Senior who gave us significant production (Greg Robbins is more of a glue guy). We were able to redshirt three of our freshman, so while they should be ready physically, they haven't see any game action. I think it's fair to say that Richmond at this point has the widest ranges of possibilities in the conference (I could see anywhere from 10 to 3).
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Originally Posted by MudFlap View Post
How'd you do the last 8-10 games? Don't see the "talent" you do, I guess, except for KD. As I've said b4, they will have to play great defense to finish top 5. I think they will score, just see the other teams scoring much MORE.
In his last 10 games, Wells avg 9.4 and 4.3. In his last 10 games, the often laughed at Oliver avg 8.4 and 6.6. Both had a zero point game in that stretch.

For the record, I'm not saying Oliver is as good as Wells or has the potential....I'm just chuckling that you keep saying Dillard is all we have. Oliver is our 4th-6th option on most nights. Wells is numero uno for X.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:25 PM   #35 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Originally Posted by JHG722 View Post
People are going to underrate us for what we lose, but fail to factor in what we gain.
Bingo. Focusing on departing players is the worst possible way to project a future team.

I'm very high on Richmond, and I go back and forth on their placement. I just know I expect them to be a damn good basketball team.

Overall it's very tough to project. The A10 should have 8 or 9 teams capable of finishing in the top 3 and competing for an at-large. The actual order is next to impossible to predict until we see the schedule. If Dayton/SLU/X all play each other twice again (which is likely) while Temple or someone else gets to play Fordham twice, that will have an effect on the standings.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:30 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AdamtheFlyer View Post
Bingo. Focusing on departing players is the worst possible way to project a future team.
Thank you....to both for understanding this principle.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:16 PM   #37 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Originally Posted by Flyer75 View Post
In his last 10 games, Wells avg 9.4 and 4.3. In his last 10 games, the often laughed at Oliver avg 8.4 and 6.6. Both had a zero point game in that stretch.

For the record, I'm not saying Oliver is as good as Wells or has the potential....I'm just chuckling that you keep saying Dillard is all we have. Oliver is our 4th-6th option on most nights. Wells is numero uno for X.
Come on man, not only is the arugment weak and you're comparing apples to oranges, Oliver and Wells had little to do with each other.

First, you can't compare the stats because you're drawing the numbers from drastically different opponents over the last 10 games.

X- UMass, Richmond, St Louis, Charlotte, Dayton, St Louis, St Bona, Notre Dame, Lehigh, Baylor
UD- Fordham, Charlotte, Xavier, Duquense, UMass, Richmond, G Washington, G Washington, Xavier, Iowa

So you take out common opponents:
X had St Louis, St Louis, St Bonaventure, Notre Dame, Lehigh, Baylor (all NCAA teams)
UD had Fordham, Duquense, George Washington, George Washington, Xavier, Iowa (1 NCAA team which happened to be Xavier!)

Really, Flyer? You don't see a drastic difference in the level of competition? That alone makes your Wells/Oliver comparison over the last 10 games a false and irrelevant one.

Secondly, during the tournaments, Frease actually played very well, and if you forgot X had Holloway and Lyons. Dez wasn't our number one option, prolly 4th.

Thirdly, you are comparing 6 tournament games (A-10 championship, NCAA Sweet 16 etc) and 4 regular season games... to 3 tournament games (A-10 quarterfinals and NIT first round) and 7 regular season games.

And lastly, Wells got hurt either the ND or Lehigh game (can't remember off the top of my head) for which he just had surgery.

I swear, some people will use whatever numbers they can to fit their storyline.

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Old 05-15-2012, 05:58 PM   #38 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Originally Posted by xavierhoops View Post
Come on man, not only is the arugment weak and you're comparing apples to oranges, Oliver and Wells had little to do with each other.

First, you can't compare the stats because you're drawing the numbers from drastically different opponents over the last 10 games.

X- UMass, Richmond, St Louis, Charlotte, Dayton, St Louis, St Bona, Notre Dame, Lehigh, Baylor
UD- Fordham, Charlotte, Xavier, Duquense, UMass, Richmond, G Washington, G Washington, Xavier, Iowa

So you take out common opponents:
X had St Louis, St Louis, St Bonaventure, Notre Dame, Lehigh, Baylor (all NCAA teams)
UD had Fordham, Duquense, George Washington, George Washington, Xavier, Iowa (1 NCAA team which happened to be Xavier!)

Really, Flyer? You don't see a drastic difference in the level of competition? That alone makes your Wells/Oliver comparison over the last 10 games a false and irrelevant one.

Secondly, during the tournaments, Frease actually played very well, and if you forgot X had Holloway and Lyons. Dez wasn't our number one option, prolly 4th.

Thirdly, you are comparing 6 tournament games (A-10 championship, NCAA Sweet 16 etc) and 4 regular season games... to 3 tournament games (A-10 quarterfinals and NIT first round) and 7 regular season games.

And lastly, Wells got hurt either the ND or Lehigh game (can't remember off the top of my head) for which he j

ust had surgery.

I swear, some people will use whatever numbers they can to fit their storyline.

And some people will make ridicoulous comments like "Dillard is really all UD has"

I think you completely missed my point as I knew some X fans would, like its a personal attack or something on Wells that Oliver came on strong at the end of the season. My whole point was to point out to Mudflap that UD is returning a lot more production then just Dillard and that players like Hill, Luke, and Williams are replaced with extreme ease.

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Old 05-15-2012, 06:12 PM   #39 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

so then when its march and X is once again in the tourney....
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:34 PM   #40 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Originally Posted by Flyer75 View Post
And some people will make ridicoulous comments like "Dillard is really all UD has"

I think you completely missed my point as I knew some X fans would, like its a personal attack or something on Wells that Oliver came on strong at the end of the season. My whole point was to point out to Mudflap that UD is returning a lot more production then just Dillard and that players like Hill, Luke, and Williams are replaced with extreme ease.
I didn't miss your point, because you failed to make a point (and trust me, I didn't take it as a personal attack on Dez).

I took it as a blatantly flawed and false comparison that obviously did not accomplish what you tried to. Comparing Oliver to an injured Wells over the last 10 game when UD played the bottom half of the A-10 and Xavier played all NCAA teams has exactly nothing to do with trying to disprove the idea Dillard is all UD has.

It's fine you think Oliver came on strong at the end of the year vs teams such as Fordham, Duquense, Charlotte and George Washington. But what in the heck that has to do with and injured Dez Wells' performance against teams such as St Louis, St Bona, Notre Dame and Baylor and then somehow trying to bring it all together to relate it to Dillard being the only guy UD has is.... confusing at best, illogical at worst.

By the way, if Dillard gets hurt at beginning of year, it could be another downright scary year for Dayton. I think that's why some people may say he's all UD has.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:32 PM   #41 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Originally Posted by TrainingDay View Post
Why not?
13- Charlotte- They might as well leave the conference now. They have some talent but there's something weird about that program and I'm not sure Major is the answer down there.
I no longer argue about low Charlotte rankings, given how they've disappointed most years in the A10. But I will say that what's "weird" is that Major is in the middle of rebuilding the program. Whether he will end up being the answer, he's basically building slow and steady by mostly bringing in freshmen players and slowly moving out older players, which inevitably lead to growing pains. He now has a complete roster at least. They don't have many good outside shooters, so that may end up being their downfall as defenses will clog the lane. But the Niners do have a POY candidate in Braswell. Based on the snippets I've read about who's coming back/recruits, I'd put the conference next year like this:

1. SLU
2. SJU
3. Xavier
4. Umass
5. Temple
6. VCU
7. Dayton
8. La Salle
9. Charlotte
10. Richmond
11. SBU
12. GW
13. Fordham
14. URI
15. Duquesne

I could see an argument for Richmond, La Salle and GW higher, Xavier and Temple lower. URI and Dukes look to be hurting/really young for now. Fordham might do better, but they had an improved team last year and still came in last place. I still don't trust Giannini nor Kellogg to definitely avoid screwing up their teams, but they do have talent. I don't know how well Dayton deals with strong inside teams. Bonnies had players other than Nicholson for their run, but I really think they'll see just how much Nicholson drew the other teams' focus. Really, after SLU, it looks like a crapshoot to me, and even SLU might miss Conklin more than people expect, he was good.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:49 PM   #42 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

I just can't pick X outside the top 5. My brain won't do it.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:00 PM   #43 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Originally Posted by antboy View Post
I no longer argue about low Charlotte rankings, given how they've disappointed most years in the A10. But I will say that what's "weird" is that Major is in the middle of rebuilding the program. Whether he will end up being the answer, he's basically building slow and steady by mostly bringing in freshmen players and slowly moving out older players, which inevitably lead to growing pains. He now has a complete roster at least. They don't have many good outside shooters, so that may end up being their downfall as defenses will clog the lane. But the Niners do have a POY candidate in Braswell. Based on the snippets I've read about who's coming back/recruits, I'd put the conference next year like this:

1. SLU
2. SJU
3. Xavier
4. Umass
5. Temple
6. VCU
7. Dayton
8. La Salle
9. Charlotte
10. Richmond
11. SBU
12. GW
13. Fordham
14. URI
15. Duquesne

I could see an argument for Richmond, La Salle and GW higher, Xavier and Temple lower. URI and Dukes look to be hurting/really young for now. Fordham might do better, but they had an improved team last year and still came in last place. I still don't trust Giannini nor Kellogg to definitely avoid screwing up their teams, but they do have talent. I don't know how well Dayton deals with strong inside teams. Bonnies had players other than Nicholson for their run, but I really think they'll see just how much Nicholson drew the other teams' focus. Really, after SLU, it looks like a crapshoot to me, and even SLU might miss Conklin more than people expect, he was good.
Dayton should be better on the inside than last year. Kavs is a serviceable if not game-changing defender. With a little improvement from last year, he could be highly effective (in a positional way, jumping is not in the cards.) Benson is back from his injury and, as long as he gets back to full strength, is a good help defender. And the two 6'8" freshmen coming in should be able to put in some solid minutes.

Furthermore, Luke Fabrizius graduated. Defensively, that's addition by subtraction.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:12 PM   #44 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Originally Posted by bprichard View Post
Dayton should be better on the inside than last year. Kavs is a serviceable if not game-changing defender. With a little improvement from last year, he could be highly effective (in a positional way, jumping is not in the cards.) Benson is back from his injury and, as long as he gets back to full strength, is a good help defender. And the two 6'8" freshmen coming in should be able to put in some solid minutes.

Furthermore, Luke Fabrizius graduated. Defensively, that's addition by subtraction.
Ah, I thought Fabrizius was back and Kavanaugh graduated. My mistake. I'd be wary of the "as long as he gets back to full strength" after season-ending leg injuries. But that does sound better.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:18 PM   #45 (permalink)
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re: 2012/13 Rankings, Including Bracketology

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Ah, I thought Fabrizius was back and Kavanaugh graduated. My mistake. I'd be wary of the "as long as he gets back to full strength" after season-ending leg injuries. But that does sound better.
Yeah, Benson shredded his knee something fierce, but, considering the amount of time he has had to rehab, I'm cautiously optimistic. He was extremely springy before the injury, so if he gets back up to 80% of his leaping ability (and isn't playing tentatively, which is honestly more of a concern), I feel good about what he can contribute on the defensive end.

I feel terrible for Benson. Ripped up his shoulder his first year, now his knee. I'm a huge fan of any Dayton Dunbar guys (with the exception of Geron Johnson), so I really want to see him come back and have a big year. He was a bit of a revelation before the knee injury.
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