Can Butler Win the Atlantic 10 in its First Season? - Page 2 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

LaSalleFan · 06-04-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bona Wolf for Pope

Then clearly Dayton is the favorite, followed closely by UMass and then La Salle (pending refs).

I sit here and read all these prediction threads with various posters putting their schools near the top of the league, and once again, La Salle is being picked 10th, 11th, etc. by these experts, despite the fact they return 4 of their top 5 scorers and the core of a team who finished tied for fifth last year.

I haven't seen one La Salle poster make an unreasonable prediction, yet you feel the need to take a shot at La Salle. Very clever. I don't even remember Explorer Steve going off the deep end with a prediction.

Bona Wolf for Pope · 06-04-2012, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaSalleFan

I sit here and read all these prediction threads with various posters putting their schools near the top of the league, and once again, La Salle is being picked 10th, 11th, etc. by these experts, despite the fact they return 4 of their top 5 scorers and the core of a team who finished tied for fifth last year.

I haven't seen one La Salle poster make an unreasonable prediction, yet you feel the need to take a shot at La Salle. Very clever. I don't even remember Explorer Steve going off the deep end with a prediction.

Where is my shot at La Salle? Admittedly, I didn't have them way up in my own projection (which is fairly worthless), but I would think I have to actually disparage the school before it qualifies as a shot. "Preseason favorite" is not code for "awful school that sucks".

LaSalleFan · 06-04-2012, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bona Wolf for Pope

Where is my shot at La Salle? Admittedly, I didn't have them way up in my own projection (which is fairly worthless), but I would think I have to actually disparage the school before it qualifies as a shot. "Preseason favorite" is not code for "awful school that sucks".

Your shot wasn't at La Salle. It was a shot at the La Salle posters on here, implying they are as delusional as the UMass and Dayton fans who think their teams are locks to finish at the top of the league. The only La Salle poster who goes off the deep end here is Steve, and even he hasn't done it (yet) regarding the 2012-13 predictions.

ace93 · 06-04-2012, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaSalleFan

I sit here and read all these prediction threads with various posters putting their schools near the top of the league, and once again, La Salle is being picked 10th, 11th, etc. by these experts, despite the fact they return 4 of their top 5 scorers and the core of a team who finished tied for fifth last year.

I haven't seen one La Salle poster make an unreasonable prediction, yet you feel the need to take a shot at La Salle. Very clever. I don't even remember Explorer Steve going off the deep end with a prediction.

Your description of the team reminds me of the Fordham team that finished 18-12 (10-6) tied for 4th, returned all 5 starters and top scorers and proceeded to finish 12th the next season. I'm not saying that will happen, but I think little turnover on a team that perhaps overachieved is not necessarily a great thing.

My view on La Salle is very tainted by your loss to Fordham. While I am sure that was an aberration, I also think it exposed your weaknesses and I am not sure how other teams did not take advantage of them.

Bona Wolf for Pope · 06-04-2012, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaSalleFan

Your shot wasn't at La Salle. It was a shot at the La Salle posters on here, implying they are as delusional as the UMass and Dayton fans who think their teams are locks to finish at the top of the league. The only La Salle poster who goes off the deep end here is Steve, and even he hasn't done it (yet) regarding the 2012-13 predictions.

My comment was in reference to one La Salle poster (who, as you mention, has been somewhat restrained of late).

BrownIndians85 · 06-04-2012, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulxu

In the first ESPN preseason poll, VCU was the only A10 member listed. They are now just outside as the first one not listed to be considered. I think it's reasonable to expect they will contend.

I just can't put much stock into a preseason poll. I think VCU has become the Gonzaga of the east coast - media darling du jour. I think VCU will be good, but after going through their first A-10 regular season they probably won't get a cupcake matchup in the 1st round of the A-10 tournament. I could see them being top 5, but not being able to run the table in the conference tourney. Oh well, it's all hypothetical anyway.

Muddy Waters · 06-04-2012, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaSalleFan

It was a shot at the La Salle posters on here, implying they are as delusional as the UMass and Dayton fans who think their teams are locks to finish at the top of the league.

LaSalleFan - which Dayton fans think the Flyers are a lock to finish at the top of the league ?

I haven't seen any Dayton fans post anything about "the Flyers being a lock to finish at the top of the league."

Please quote the posts you are referring to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddy Waters on May 31, 2012

2012/13 Rankings (way early I know) - Post # 155

I picked the Flyers to finish in 6th place in 2011-12, and UD finished in 6th place in 2011-12.

I am now predicting a 4th place finish for the Flyers in 2012-13 and an NCAA Tournament "at large" invitation in March 2013.

The delusions about the 2012-13 Dayton Flyers are coming from the other side of the fence.

In my linked Post # 155 I gave my reasons (i.e. opinions) as to why I think Dayton will finish in 4th place in 2012-13.

rworkman09 · 06-04-2012, 10:40 AM

Why are so many people high on Butler? They didn't even qualify for the NIT last year and they lost Nored.

I think Butler is in for a rude awakening next year. No more breezing through the conference schedule.

I understand the VCU hype. They have a team that could compete for the league title next year, but I don't see that with Butler.

UMass87 · 06-04-2012, 10:55 AM

coaching

Twister · 06-04-2012, 12:03 PM

no they will not win the A-10 Umass has it locked up

AdamtheFlyer · 06-04-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rworkman09

Why are so many people high on Butler? They didn't even qualify for the NIT last year and they lost Nored.

I think Butler is in for a rude awakening next year. No more breezing through the conference schedule.

I understand the VCU hype. They have a team that could compete for the league title next year, but I don't see that with Butler.

I agree. Butler is still a year or two away. Stevens is a tactical genius, but at the end of the day, that only takes you so far. He will be lacking the talent needed to win big in the A10 immediately. It will be very tough to play them in Hinkle, though.

WH · 06-04-2012, 12:49 PM

I would be surprised if either VCU or Butler wins the A-10 in their first year. New arenas to visit, more travel (at least for Butler), a higher level of opposing coaches and team strategies. And every team will be eager to smack the new kids on the block.

I think SLU is the clear favorite, with UMass, Temple, LaSalle, St. Joes and Dayton in the mix. Richmond is a darkhorse, too, and Xavier will be good again.

VCU is good enough now to compete for the league title, Butler less so.

Free Quebec · 06-04-2012, 01:05 PM

LaSalle is a hard team to slot. I don't think last year was a fluke, I think they have real talent, enough to compete for a top 4 spot. Duren and Galloway are an excellent (though I'm not sure if Galloway can repeat that kind of shooting, given he didn't shoot like that at USC). Love the big guy, too, who I expect to make real strides as a sophomore.

The problem is that Pettis is tough to replace. He gave their offense an extra weapon and really opened things up last year. I'm not sure if any of these newcomers can make up for that production (though the expected sophmore improvement from Wright helps a lot), or if the depth is there to make a run at the top 4 again, though as I said the back-court is good enough to play in the Tourney.

The other problem is that a very good basketball team is going to finish 8th this year. I think SJU is headed for the tourney this year, and SLU should be around the top again. UMASS is on the way up, VCU is an upper echelon team from Day 1, Temple and X are still lurking, and people forget how young (and talented) Butler was last year. Teams like that can sometimes make big leap forward in year 2, especially with a coach like Stevens, though it could take another year before the still-young talent is ready for the big time.

Finishing 8th would be no knock on anyone with those 8 teams.

And that doesn't include: Dayton, who has a fantastic point guard, an extremely athletic talent in Benson coming back from a lost injury season, and some other decent parts; Richmond, with a talented backcourt and a great system that takes time to learn (meaning if it clicks this year, they could take a real step forward); GW, who has an influx of talent coming in (including Villanova's captain), an emerging star up front in David Pellom, and a coach who has proven he can win with his own guys; the Bonnies, who despite losing AN, retrun some nice underrated parts and a ton of confidence; and even Charlotte, who showed some real upside at times last season.

So that's 5 more teams right there who could sneak into the top 8, without it being a knock on any of the teams that finish 9th. Or, another way to look at it, if the league goes with a 12 team tourney, there could be a pretty solid team that doesn't even make it.

All this to say that I like LaSalle, but don't take it as an insult if someone doesn't put you in the top 5 -- or even the top 8.

ExplorerSteve · 06-04-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaSalleFan

Your shot wasn't at La Salle. It was a shot at the La Salle posters on here, implying they are as delusional as the UMass and Dayton fans who think their teams are locks to finish at the top of the league. The only La Salle poster who goes off the deep end here is Steve, and even he hasn't done it (yet) regarding the 2012-13 predictions.

Man up LaSalleFan. The regulars here know I don't make picks before October. It is stupid especially since rosters are not even finalized yet. If people want to give the Hawks, X, SLU and UMass praise and make them paper champs that is fine... it makes it much sweeter when we beat the Hawks, SLU and UMass and X.

ExplorerSteve · 06-04-2012, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Quebec

LaSalle is a hard team to slot. I don't think last year was a fluke, I think they have real talent, enough to compete for a top 4 spot. Duran and Galloway are an excellent (though I'm not sure if Galloway can repeat that kind of shooting, given he didn't shoot like that at USC). Love the big guy, too, who I expect to make real strides as a sophomore.

The problem is that Pettis is tough to replace. He gave their offense an extra weapon and really opened things up last year. I'm not sure if any of these newcomers can make up for that production (though the expected sophmore improvement from Wright helps a lot), or if the depth is there to make a run at the top 4 again, though as I said the back-court is good enough to play in the Tourney.

The other problem is that a very good basketball team is going to finish 8th this year. I think SJU is headed for the tourney this year, and SLU should be around the top again. UMASS is on the way up, VCU is an upper echelon team from Day 1, Temple and X are still lurking, and people forget how young (and talented) Butler was last year. Teams like that can sometimes make big leap forward in year 2, especially with a coach like Stevens, though it could take another year before the still-young talent is ready for the big time.

Finishing 8th would be no knock on anyone with those 8 teams.

And that doesn't include: Dayton, who has a fantastic point guard, an extremely athletic talent in Benson coming back from a lost injury season, and some other decent parts; Richmond, with a talented backcourt and a great system that takes time to learn (meaning if it clicks this year, they could take a real step forward); GW, who has an influx of talent coming in (including Villanova's captain), an emerging star up front in David Pellom, and a coach who has proven he can win with his own guys; the Bonnies, who despite losing AN, retrun some nice underrated parts and a ton of confidence; and even Charlotte, who showed some real upside at times last season.

So that's 5 more teams right there who could sneak into the top 8, without it being a knock on any of the teams that finish 9th. Or, another way to look at it, if the league goes with a 12 team tourney, there could be a pretty solid team that doesn't even make it.

All this to say that I like LaSalle, but don't take it as an insult if someone doesn't put you in the top 5 -- or even the top 8.

Pettis' experience is tough to replace but Garland (top 3 all-time in Philly Public League HS scoring, Wilt was at the top)... should more then fill the scoring void. He will need to play good defense. I'd like to see another power forward added to the mix before the fall semester.

06-04-2012, 10:40 AM	#23 (permalink)
rworkman09 Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 817 Rep Power: 600	Re: Can Butler Win the Atlantic 10 in its First Season? Why are so many people high on Butler? They didn't even qualify for the NIT last year and they lost Nored. I think Butler is in for a rude awakening next year. No more breezing through the conference schedule. I understand the VCU hype. They have a team that could compete for the league title next year, but I don't see that with Butler. __________________ Atlantic 10 Forum Charlotte 49ers Message Board

06-04-2012, 10:55 AM	#24 (permalink)
UMass87 Star Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,727 Rep Power: 226644	Re: Can Butler Win the Atlantic 10 in its First Season? coaching

06-04-2012, 12:03 PM	#25 (permalink)
Twister Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 166 Rep Power: 662	Re: Can Butler Win the Atlantic 10 in its First Season? no they will not win the A-10 Umass has it locked up

06-04-2012, 12:49 PM	#27 (permalink)
WH Star Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,496 Rep Power: 319215	Re: Can Butler Win the Atlantic 10 in its First Season? I would be surprised if either VCU or Butler wins the A-10 in their first year. New arenas to visit, more travel (at least for Butler), a higher level of opposing coaches and team strategies. And every team will be eager to smack the new kids on the block. I think SLU is the clear favorite, with UMass, Temple, LaSalle, St. Joes and Dayton in the mix. Richmond is a darkhorse, too, and Xavier will be good again. VCU is good enough now to compete for the league title, Butler less so.

06-04-2012, 01:05 PM	#28 (permalink)
Free Quebec Veteran Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 2,458 Rep Power: 21863	Re: Can Butler Win the Atlantic 10 in its First Season? LaSalle is a hard team to slot. I don't think last year was a fluke, I think they have real talent, enough to compete for a top 4 spot. Duren and Galloway are an excellent (though I'm not sure if Galloway can repeat that kind of shooting, given he didn't shoot like that at USC). Love the big guy, too, who I expect to make real strides as a sophomore. The problem is that Pettis is tough to replace. He gave their offense an extra weapon and really opened things up last year. I'm not sure if any of these newcomers can make up for that production (though the expected sophmore improvement from Wright helps a lot), or if the depth is there to make a run at the top 4 again, though as I said the back-court is good enough to play in the Tourney. The other problem is that a very good basketball team is going to finish 8th this year. I think SJU is headed for the tourney this year, and SLU should be around the top again. UMASS is on the way up, VCU is an upper echelon team from Day 1, Temple and X are still lurking, and people forget how young (and talented) Butler was last year. Teams like that can sometimes make big leap forward in year 2, especially with a coach like Stevens, though it could take another year before the still-young talent is ready for the big time. Finishing 8th would be no knock on anyone with those 8 teams. And that doesn't include: Dayton, who has a fantastic point guard, an extremely athletic talent in Benson coming back from a lost injury season, and some other decent parts; Richmond, with a talented backcourt and a great system that takes time to learn (meaning if it clicks this year, they could take a real step forward); GW, who has an influx of talent coming in (including Villanova's captain), an emerging star up front in David Pellom, and a coach who has proven he can win with his own guys; the Bonnies, who despite losing AN, retrun some nice underrated parts and a ton of confidence; and even Charlotte, who showed some real upside at times last season. So that's 5 more teams right there who could sneak into the top 8, without it being a knock on any of the teams that finish 9th. Or, another way to look at it, if the league goes with a 12 team tourney, there could be a pretty solid team that doesn't even make it. All this to say that I like LaSalle, but don't take it as an insult if someone doesn't put you in the top 5 -- or even the top 8. __________________ A Wall St. banker, a tea party guy, and a union guy all sit down a table with 12 cookies. The Wall St. banker takes 11 cookies, turns to the tea party guy and says, "That union guy wants a piece of your cookie." Last edited by Free Quebec; 06-04-2012 at 01:57 PM.

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