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Old 07-11-2012, 07:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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Honestly, the entire thing is pretty pointless. GW is a great school and I have many friends there or graduated from there (including my best friend who transferred from Temple), but for $60K/yr, I think Temple is a significantly better value at less than half the price/yr in state, especially if you get into the Temple Honors College (in which case, you're probably getting at least a few thousand a year in scholarships). If you're not wealthy or on scholarship, I think private universities are not worth the money.
I agree that paying full freight at most private colleges can seem to be both daunting, and conceivably a waste of money. Of course you are getting a much more personal education for that money. Deans who know you, professors that notice when you are not in class, and the knowledge that you are never just a number. Also at a school like Richmond the endowment of close to $2B allows the school to give out so much financial aid that a majority of students are not paying anywhere near close to full price. 66% of all students are on some form of financial aid, scholarship / grant, with the average aid being $33,000 a year. Richmond does not want students to leave UR with much more than $20,000 in debt.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:34 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

hahaha...yes, there are a couple umass guys on here that aren't making much of an argument for the minutemen.

I agree with the notion that this is pointless. Every school in the A10 has pros and cons, and all are fantastic schools in many ways. Umass has Z8 and his other personalities, but is also a world class institution in many areas.

I wouldn't trade my experience at Richmond for anything, but that doesn't mean the other schools aren't great and perfect for other people's needs....which is why this is silly.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:26 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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I agree that paying full freight at most private colleges can seem to be both daunting, and conceivably a waste of money. Of course you are getting a much more personal education for that money. Deans who know you, professors that notice when you are not in class, and the knowledge that you are never just a number. Also at a school like Richmond the endowment of close to $2B allows the school to give out so much financial aid that a majority of students are not paying anywhere near close to full price. 66% of all students are on some form of financial aid, scholarship / grant, with the average aid being $33,000 a year. Richmond does not want students to leave UR with much more than $20,000 in debt.
That's pretty cool, was not aware that UR's endowment was that large.

I loved Xavier, however I wish I would have looked at UR. I have heard nothing but great things about that place. I would, of course, still have been a Xavier fan though...
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

Academic rankings are among the dumbest things we have in this country.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:01 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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Academic rankings are among the dumbest things we have in this country.
I think they have some value. They are not the be all and end all and should not be the sole factor in one's decision on where to go to college. Going to a highly ranked school does help in the job market and in applying to grad school. Again not the only factor obviously, but a factor nonetheless.

I would not call them dumb, but they are very imperfect.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:05 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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How about we measure academic ROI? I think you get more education per dollar at Charlotte than any school in the conference. For all you people still paying off your student loans how about going to a school where tuition and fees is under $6000/year? Now that is smart.
These days, students should be considering ROI over virtually all other items when selecting an institute of higher learning. You just cannot tell me that paying $50k/yr for school Y provides 5 times the lifetime benefit than school Z @ $10k/yr.

But hey! It's your money!
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:11 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

It's discrimination against dumb people!

I would like to see dumb people bused into schools loaded with too many smart people.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:20 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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These days, students should be considering ROI over virtually all other items when selecting an institute of higher learning. You just cannot tell me that paying $50k/yr for school Y provides 5 times the lifetime benefit than school Z @ $10k/yr.

But hey! It's your money!
Most don't pay full freight at a lot, perhaps most, of the private universities.

That said, I agree with your statement that ROI should be a consideration when considering a college and to take it a step further it should be a consideration when considering college in general. Many would do themselves just as well going to a trade school or being an apprentice to a trade. College is not for everyone, but it has become that almost everyone goes to college.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:29 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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I think they have some value. They are not the be all and end all and should not be the sole factor in one's decision on where to go to college. Going to a highly ranked school does help in the job market and in applying to grad school. Again not the only factor obviously, but a factor nonetheless.

I would not call them dumb, but they are very imperfect.
On a macro level, yes, these rankings have value, although much of that value is to the college rather than the prospective student. For the student, choosing a college is a micro decision. I agree wholeheartedly with people who say value is the most important thing when choosing a college. Obviously, if you can get into Harvard, go. But if not, simply looking at rankings and picking a college probably won't end well for you.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:53 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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These days, students should be considering ROI over virtually all other items when selecting an institute of higher learning. You just cannot tell me that paying $50k/yr for school Y provides 5 times the lifetime benefit than school Z @ $10k/yr.

But hey! It's your money!
Actually in many cases you can. Compare average salaries of Harvard grads to UMass. It's not always directly proportional but often times, like in life, you get what you pay for.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:16 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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Actually in many cases you can. Compare average salaries of Harvard grads to UMass. It's not always directly proportional but often times, like in life, you get what you pay for.
There are a lot of variables there, though. How many of the people at Harvard have all the contextual resources to succeed...family wealth, connections, maybe even less in student loans because Dad paid for it all, etc? Compare that to UMass where a higher percentage of their students may be first generation or not have the family support and history of making the big money or even commute and lose out on the social aspect that helps color resumes and future networking (note: I'm not saying only poor nincompoops go to UMass, but I did want to use the word nincompoop).

There's no way to come up with a definable, statistical way to compare colleges that works. It's just too different and too subjective for too many people.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:08 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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There's no way to come up with a definable, statistical way to compare colleges that works. It's just too different and too subjective for too many people.
NCAA tournament?
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:15 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

Perhaps because I ply my trade(s) in and around an ultimate meritocracy, I'm much less inclined to care about a degree or where it comes from. However, I have learned that even natural "geniuses" who haven't had the opportunity or inclination to complete a basic level of higher education have difficulty in meta critical thinking skills. Meaning, situation-ally or occupationally they may have it, but usually it fails them in application of life skills. So there is some value in getting a degree even if you work in a field that doesn't need it. Smart people will wind up at every school.

Individually rankings mean nothing. These rankings speak for a generalization of students but not for everybody... though they are often cited as though they do speak for the weakest and strongest links equally. Often, it's a bit like the benchwarmer on the number one team in the country bragging about his program's success to the best player in the country (on one of the worst teams). The NBA knows the difference between the two, just as the real world will shake things right after college and elevate intelligent and capable people and pass over on the incompetents.

My input to my children's decision on college will weigh success at placing graduates in the fields there are interested, ROI, and convenience. If that happens to correspond with the rankings so be it, if not, then the rankings will be ignored.

It's nice that Richmond is ranked highly, but the hardest class I ever took was a basic one at the University of Delaware. I couldn't understand a word the professor said. Thought it was going to be cake city but I learned the aptitude of a student might be higher when he's succeeding in educating himself when the school fails him.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:27 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

No way I can rank the schools but it is nice to be near the top of the A 10 in something other than softball.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:36 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Ranking A10 Schools Academically

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NCAA tournament?
That would mean Kentucky is the best school in the country.
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