ESPN Tip-Off Marathon - Page 4 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

paulxu · 07-15-2012, 10:13 AM

Flyer, no one is disputing that. Your conference schedule comes first. You are right. You have to get to 10 wins.

But...you don't control the conference schedule. Once you get to the 10 wins, THEN they look at your OOC.

You DO control the OOC. If they are looking at 2 teams on the bubble with 10 conference wins, it may help to have one more good road game besides Alabama.

I'm not happy that the UC game for us was switched to a neutral site. Would have liked it to be an away game.

jpschmack · 07-15-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xavierhoops

but the problem is the A-10 does not have enough teams that would classify as "marquee" or big wins.

You're talking about NAMES, not an actual "marquee win."

Butler wasn't a marquee win last season. A marquee opponent, is someone's who is clearly in the dance. You win more OOC games, your conference games are move valuable, and the top half of the league are marquee games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulxu

All the math aside, if you are bubble material on selection Sunday, and they look at your OOC schedule to see (in their words) if you went on the road and played top teams, a lot of OOC wins against really bad teams (although wins) doesn't fit that criteria.

So, do you pad the math for the whole conference's benefit...or do you take the tough road game OOC to help yourself on selection Sunday?

Except that's not true on multiple levels:
#1 - Do they really look at your road OOC schedule?
UConn 1, Indiana 2, Vandy 2, Alabama 2, Cal 2, Notre Dame 1, Purdue 1, Kansas St 1, NC State 1, WVU 1.
That's the number of OOC road GAMES for some NCAA at-large teams. Not wins, games.

#2 - There's a difference between a reason why a team didn't get in, and an "excuse" for why the committee didn't pick someone. Road OOC wins is an excuse the committee gives. Every team that DID get in, beat NCAA tournament teams IN CONFERENCE. Who got left out? Drexel (5 road OOC games), Miami (at Purdue, at WVU, at Ole Miss, at Charlotte), Oral Roberts (at XU, at GONZ, at WVU, at OKLA). Northwestern (at Creighton, and a BCS bottom feeder). Ole Miss (at So Miss, at Dayton and at 2 BCS bottom feeders).

#3 - No one is saying our bubble teams need to play no one OOC. It's the teams who AREN'T going to be bubble teams that need to go easy.

#4 - And of course, it's moot because Xavier is playing a CONFERENCE opponent. If you beat Butler in November and lose to them in February, the committee will care more about the one in Feb. And if you don't get enough wins over Cincy, Vandy, Purdue and the Anaheim field, a November win over Butler isn't going to save you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stophorseabuse

JP. Finally, I mainly agree.

The Lasalles, duquesnes, Rhodies… of the league need to schedule for wins (not every year, just typically). That makes perfect sense. … Talking heads would be outraged the a10 beat no one out of conference but has all these top 50 to top 100 rpi teams. The A10 would get punished. Finally, I think that would be HILARIOUS.

Cause it hurts the Mountain West every year!

paulxu · 07-15-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpschmack

Except that's not true on multiple levels:
#1 - Do they really look at your road OOC schedule?
UConn 1, Indiana 2, Vandy 2, Alabama 2, Cal 2, Notre Dame 1, Purdue 1, Kansas St 1, NC State 1, WVU 1.
That's the number of OOC road GAMES for some NCAA at-large teams. Not wins, games.

But all of those teams are in the favored Big 6

#2 - There's a difference between a reason why a team didn't get in, and an "excuse" for why the committee didn't pick someone. Road OOC wins is an excuse the committee gives. Every team that DID get in, beat NCAA tournament teams IN CONFERENCE. Who got left out? Drexel (5 road OOC games), Miami (at Purdue, at WVU, at Ole Miss, at Charlotte), Oral Roberts (at XU, at GONZ, at WVU, at OKLA). Northwestern (at Creighton, and a BCS bottom feeder). Ole Miss (at So Miss, at Dayton and at 2 BCS bottom feeders).

Not road "wins" necessarily; but did you go on the road against tough opponents. They say it's a reason, we can say it's an excuse, but X made it in last year.

I concur that OOC wins are very important in the math for raising all RPIs, so scheduling some more or less guaranteed wins, especially for weaker conference teams is beneficial to all.

Blue Blobster · 07-15-2012, 02:42 PM

What I don't get is why this game is such a problem to people outside of X and Butler. If they had wanted to change it they would have. Its a big time match up between two high profile non big six schools. Screw the rest of the A10 and what effects everyone thinks having this OOC game with a conference member is going to have. I want to see, from the Fan perspective, a good game. which is what I get with the butler X tip off game.

**agoo101284** · 07-15-2012, 02:59 PM

I'm with you Blue. Its an unplanned anomaly. The game was scheduled before Butler became an A-10 members. Its weird, but its going to happen once, so who cares?

stophorseabuse · 07-15-2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Blobster

What I don't get is why this game is such a problem to people outside of X and Butler. If they had wanted to change it they would have. Its a big time match up between two high profile non big six schools. Screw the rest of the A10 and what effects everyone thinks having this OOC game with a conference member is going to have. I want to see, from the Fan perspective, a good game. which is what I get with the butler X tip off game.

What If they switched games and X lost to Detroit, and Butler to SJ?

MudFlap · 07-15-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Blobster

What I don't get is why this game is such a problem to people outside of X and Butler. If they had wanted to change it they would have. Its a big time match up between two high profile non big six schools. Screw the rest of the A10 and what effects everyone thinks having this OOC game with a conference member is going to have. I want to see, from the Fan perspective, a good game. which is what I get with the butler X tip off game.

Good early season test for both. Don't get it either.

Flyer75 · 07-16-2012, 06:10 AM

I don't have a problem with it.

Bona Wolf for Pope · 07-16-2012, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stophorseabuse

What If they switched games and X lost to Detroit, and Butler to SJ?

It's not going to switch, so why ask pointless hypotheticals?

If X is losing to Detroit, maybe they should be more concerned about their own team.

A10fan2 · 07-16-2012, 07:00 AM

Bona,

this whole debate has been pointless hypotheticals.

Knobby · 07-16-2012, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpschmack

You're talking about NAMES, not an actual "marquee win."

Butler wasn't a marquee win last season. A marquee opponent, is someone's who is clearly in the dance. You win more OOC games, your conference games are move valuable, and the top half of the league are marquee games.

Except that's not true on multiple levels:
#1 - Do they really look at your road OOC schedule?
UConn 1, Indiana 2, Vandy 2, Alabama 2, Cal 2, Notre Dame 1, Purdue 1, Kansas St 1, NC State 1, WVU 1.
That's the number of OOC road GAMES for some NCAA at-large teams. Not wins, games.

#2 - There's a difference between a reason why a team didn't get in, and an "excuse" for why the committee didn't pick someone. Road OOC wins is an excuse the committee gives. Every team that DID get in, beat NCAA tournament teams IN CONFERENCE. Who got left out? Drexel (5 road OOC games), Miami (at Purdue, at WVU, at Ole Miss, at Charlotte), Oral Roberts (at XU, at GONZ, at WVU, at OKLA). Northwestern (at Creighton, and a BCS bottom feeder). Ole Miss (at So Miss, at Dayton and at 2 BCS bottom feeders).

#3 - No one is saying our bubble teams need to play no one OOC. It's the teams who AREN'T going to be bubble teams that need to go easy.

#4 - And of course, it's moot because Xavier is playing a CONFERENCE opponent. If you beat Butler in November and lose to them in February, the committee will care more about the one in Feb. And if you don't get enough wins over Cincy, Vandy, Purdue and the Anaheim field, a November win over Butler isn't going to save you.

Cause it hurts the Mountain West every year!

Dude you are hurting everyone's head with your master "scheduling genius". You are not fixing the problem Mr Wizard. 25-4 without beating anyone outsoide of the confernece is going to hurt you - PERIOD. The point that EVERYONE is arguing against you is valid. YOU HAVE TO BEAT SOMEONE and while kicking the schidt out of your conference is great, you still need to beat someone on your own and not rely on those around you to pile up guady stats for you to piggy back on.

We beat Temple and Temple beat Duke so WE BEAT DUKE! I doesn't work that way. The GD RPI and SOS numbers may give some clarity to a group of teams that are in or out, but when you are down to the final few spots those numbers are meaningless - that is when you NEED those good OOC wins.

Bona Wolf for Pope · 07-16-2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A10fan2

Bona,

this whole debate has been pointless hypotheticals.

I suppose that's true. I can't wait until November.

stophorseabuse · 07-16-2012, 09:11 AM

Yeah Bona wolf, I was simply making hypothetical about how disastrous that result would be for league.

e-parade · 07-16-2012, 09:34 AM

I'm so glad that UMass is not the first game this time around (like we were in 2008 I believe). I'm also happy with the opponent - Harvard is solid.

MudFlap · 07-16-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bona Wolf for Pope

I suppose that's true. I can't wait until November.

Only 120 days to tipoff @ 4:00

07-15-2012, 10:13 AM	#46 (permalink)
paulxu Veteran Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,358 Rep Power: 309022	Re: ESPN Tip-Off Marathon Flyer, no one is disputing that. Your conference schedule comes first. You are right. You have to get to 10 wins. But...you don't control the conference schedule. Once you get to the 10 wins, THEN they look at your OOC. You DO control the OOC. If they are looking at 2 teams on the bubble with 10 conference wins, it may help to have one more good road game besides Alabama. I'm not happy that the UC game for us was switched to a neutral site. Would have liked it to be an away game. __________________ *...he went up late, and I was already up there.*

07-15-2012, 02:42 PM	#49 (permalink)
Blue Blobster Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 682 Rep Power: 145099	Re: ESPN Tip-Off Marathon What I don't get is why this game is such a problem to people outside of X and Butler. If they had wanted to change it they would have. Its a big time match up between two high profile non big six schools. Screw the rest of the A10 and what effects everyone thinks having this OOC game with a conference member is going to have. I want to see, from the Fan perspective, a good game. which is what I get with the butler X tip off game. __________________ Xavier likes to Play in the NCAA tournaments Dayton likes to host them while they play in the NIT

07-15-2012, 02:59 PM	#50 (permalink)
agoo101284 -LIFETIME MEMBER- Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bronx, NY Age: 28 Posts: 7,757 Rep Power: 1595652	Re: ESPN Tip-Off Marathon I'm with you Blue. Its an unplanned anomaly. The game was scheduled before Butler became an A-10 members. Its weird, but its going to happen once, so who cares?

07-16-2012, 06:10 AM	#53 (permalink)
Flyer75 Star Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,833 Rep Power: 37278	Re: ESPN Tip-Off Marathon I don't have a problem with it.

07-16-2012, 09:11 AM	#58 (permalink)
stophorseabuse Veteran Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Valdosta, GA (Title town) Age: 33 Posts: 2,076 Rep Power: 142982	Re: ESPN Tip-Off Marathon Yeah Bona wolf, I was simply making hypothetical about how disastrous that result would be for league.

07-16-2012, 09:34 AM	#59 (permalink)
e-parade 6th Man Join Date: May 2012 Location: Boston Posts: 462 Rep Power: 140761	Re: ESPN Tip-Off Marathon I'm so glad that UMass is not the first game this time around (like we were in 2008 I believe). I'm also happy with the opponent - Harvard is solid.

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