stophorseabuse

This is simple to me. Xavier has been run to perfection. They have made incredible strategic decisions every step of the way. Outstanding AD's and Presidents making outstanding hires. Tremendous fan support that has been won over due to the perfect handling of the program.

Xavier runs their program incredibly shrewdly. The minds running that program have been as good as any, anywhere.

Any program could have done what X has done, but X is the school who had the professionals with the ability, and patient vision to execute a long term plan.

Xavier is the definition of a big time program due to the DECISIONS they have made. Smart people in that athletic department.

stophorseabuse

So UD COULD be Xavier, but they are not. They are Dayton. And Xavier is Xavier.

xavierhoops

JP, I see what you're saying in your last post. It's still, though, not what your originally said that Dayton COULD HAVE BEEN like Xavier if they hadn't played in the Great Midwest 20 years ago.

It's laughable to say the reason the UD program has had 5 bids in 27 years while X has had 20+ bids is because UD played in the Great Midwest Conference for 2 seasons in the early 90's while X played in the MCC.

The problem for UD really hasn't been getting the talent, it's either the talent isn't as good as advertised (can we get some high school/summer league stats Muddy?) or the UD program/coaching staff simply cannot develop talent into successful teams.

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Chris Mack in 3 years at Xavier has had twice the NCAA wins (4) of the entire Dayton coaching staff in the modern era of NCAA basketball (2).

jpschmack

More or less.

That is correct. Which is why I never said it was THE REASON. (But let's not do the whole "argue-the-argument and not the topic" type of deal).

I think it's a much better "overly simplistic" rationale than stophorseabuse's total perfection theory, which I assume means he has a "mostly to total failure theory" for Dayton.

I don't think anyone's talent is ever as good as advertised. I've never seen a signing day press release that said "Well, not really a great class, we just didn't get the guys we were after." But that's not pertinent.

Dayton's had their share of talent (I'm the guy who argues the difference in skill/athleticism between team #40 in the country and team #120 in the country are virtually non-existent, remember) but as we all agreed on: winning breeds more winning.

So, yes, while Dayton "might not" (and in your valid opinion "probably wouldn't be") at a similar level as Xavier had they stayed in the MCC instead of GMW, getting to the level Xavier is currently at would be a lot easier in the MCC than in the GMW. That was my whole point. Not that they "Would be if only," but "possibily could be."

I also think it's possible St. Bonaventure could be at a level similar to Creighton had they not hired VBK. (that's consistent 10-12 seeds but no second weekends, not decades of success like Xavier, relax). They got Gansey based on their 2000 appearance, they go again with him? Winning breeds winning, land another couple guys and when you add Nicholson to the mix, it's game on. Obviously not a given, but a lot better odds than post-scandal. Certainly possible. All I'm trying to say with all this: Certainly possible, a lot better odds, "COULD" happen.

With the constant flow of talent in, you don't have to hit the reset button when someone like Nicholson graduates and build it back up.

Which, to bring this full circle, is why we always assume Xavier will be fine. No matter who leaves, we expect top four in the league, 10-12 seed minimum and predicting their "demise" is foolhardy.

Can we go back to bashing ESPN's treatment of the league now?

Flyer75

This is most certainly true when comparing X to UD...it's not true when comparing X to say 20-25 other programs in the country. I can list a laundry list of teams that don't get on message boards and brag about S16 appearances and consecutive NCAA appearances because they could care less about that...it's E8 or bust for them every year and they are willing to "sacrifice" a season or two to make that goal every so often which they do. X has been more consistent then just about anyone out there, including UNC...but no one would put X and UNC in the same sentence. Perfection....I suppose it depends on what your definition of that is.

Blue Blobster

What schools would that laundry list entail?


Im still gonna brag about our sweet sixteens and elite eights. Don't kid yourself that Dayton wouldn't brag about their sweet sixteens as well. But you got to make it there first.

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Xavier likes to Play in the NCAA tournaments
Dayton likes to host them while they play in the NIT

Flyer75

Ohio St.
Illinois
UNC
Duke
Butler
UCLA
Memphis
Indiana
Kentucky
Kansas
Michigan St
Pittsburgh
Gtown
Florida
'Nova
Michigan
'Cuse
Louisville
Missouri
Arizona

And I could list a slew that would be debatable...NC State, Texas, Maryland, Marquette, ect. Again, X has been more consistent then just about everyone on this list, but these schools generally could care less about a S16 appearance or making it there 4/5 years when ALL of these schools have FF appearances and most of them multiple appearances there. Not knocking X, I was only responding to paul's "perfection" post....perfection in the A10, pretty close, perfection by other teams standards...not really. And yes, I would brag too about what X has done if UD had done it, I would also realize that we hadn't accomplished a ton compared to a lot of other programs out there and perfection was quite a bit a ways off.

Blue Blobster

Well, you just named, with the exception of Memphis and Butler. Big six conference programs. And elite programs at that. Since all of them are more storied and have more history. How bout you come back with another list with some schools that are more like non big six schools that haven't been perennial basketball powers for the better part of half a century. also with the resources that some of these schools have they better be making final fours.

And can you tell me, Garuntee to me, that all these schools don't care about sweet sixteens and elite eights? or are you just spit balling stuff because your tired of listening to all the success X has had.

maybe we wouldn't bring it up so much if another Dayton fan kept posting garbage and childish BS thats sole goal is to make X look bad

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Xavier likes to Play in the NCAA tournaments
Dayton likes to host them while they play in the NIT

Flyer75

Do they care? sure, but do you think OSU cares about X's "streak"??? No, they don't. They don't care if X makes 25 straight NCAA appearances while they make it 18/25 years. Why? Because in those 18 years, they'll make 2-3 FF appearances and pr yobably play in 2 NC games.

I bet you would trade places with most of those teams and if you say you wouldn't, you aren't kidding anyone. I'd trade it, even with an Illinois for example...2 FF appearances in the last 25 years and darn near a perfect season with a NC appearance. UCLA can totally suck for 3 years and then make a NC appearance. They'll suck for 3 more years, then a FF appearance, and so on.

Big Six is irrelevant to the argument...at least paul never clarified that in his post. If he had, I would have agreed allot more.

And fyi, if X could make a FF or two during this run, that would make my argument a moot point.

Oooops, I apologize, it wasn't paul...it was stophorseabuse.

El Shaqtus

One thing missing from the list is the last non-BCS league team to win it all: UNLV.

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Mom, thanks for everything.

RIP Coach Rick Majerus 12/1/12. You were the one that said it was OK to think big at SLU. You were right.

KVBL Lexington Kings

Flyer75

Yes, and I almost put them in there. And they should be in there.

For the record, Bleacherreport has an all time top 50 program list they recently did and it will drive X fans mad if they look at it. Despite total domination for 15-20 years over UD and the A10, they still fall short of UD on the list. I know that's irrelevant to this argument but look at that list and you'll see why most of these teams would never get on message boards and proclaim perfection based on what X has done.

X in at 47
UD in at 45
UNVL in at 20
Temple at 23

My point is, until X makes a FF (or two) the national perception is still far from perfection or "power house" program because most casual fans just don't remember who made the S16 even last season unless said team moves on to the FF or NC game. A couple of FF appearances would do wonders for X's perception on the national scene.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...ms-of-all-time

El Shaqtus

I'd put Vegas ahead of perennial BCS disappointments like Missouri.

(nah, I'm not bitter )

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Mom, thanks for everything.

RIP Coach Rick Majerus 12/1/12. You were the one that said it was OK to think big at SLU. You were right.

KVBL Lexington Kings

Blue Blobster

Of course OSU doesn't care about X's streak. of course X would take Illinois final fours. But see they pump their chest for their accomplishments, And believe me they do, I don;t care. neither do a lot of others. X doesn't care about most these schools and most of these schools feel the same. So its a stupid argument to begin with. Besides, The other 320 schools you didn't mention including your dayton would love what we have and would trade places with us. And for a lot of them (including your Dayton) if they had what we had you better believe that they would be bragging.



In the end it doesn't matter if you care or not. Your gonna hear it again, and again, and again. I mean C'mon what kind of rival would we be if we didn't dangle something we have that you don't

Good thing bleacher point is not a credited sports website, I saw an article on why the Browns are gonna win the supper bowl in two years the other day, think that is true also?

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Xavier likes to Play in the NCAA tournaments
Dayton likes to host them while they play in the NIT

Blue Blobster

blaw

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Xavier likes to Play in the NCAA tournaments
Dayton likes to host them while they play in the NIT

Flyer75

fair enough points and I don't really disagree with that...I was disagreeing with the "perfection" comment.