Dez is Back - Page 3 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

AdamtheFlyer · 08-28-2012, 11:46 AM

Xavier's really got their heels dug in. That's fine, but it's a dangerous precedent to set.

uddunk · 08-28-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A10fan2

As much loitering as you do on the Xavier boards and anywhere Xavier is mentioned, you should know that Deters is a UC graduate and big supporter of their program. Ethical concerns stem only from Wells getting railroaded out of the University. BTW, he said that he did call X officials and give them his "opinion" of what X should do.

I have never posted on an Xavier board so I don't know what you are talking about, and probably have posted here rarely in the past year.

Still unanswered is why would a prosecutor present a baseless case to a grand jury? Given his statements does anyone believe any incriminating evidence was even presented? Grand jury proceedings are secret so nobody will ever know what evidence was presented or excluded.

I haven't seen any evidence that the prosecutor felt publicly pressured to prosecute Wells, because nobody really knows what happened. I think he is definitely pursuing an agenda and getting Wells reinstated to the Xavier basketball team is clearly it. It's his own words.

Muddy Waters · 08-28-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UMass87

Xavier has only itself to blame.

It can't seem to figure out how to handle charges of sexual misconduct.

The feds gave Xavier University some assistance in that area:

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthBomber on August 22, 2012

OK, time for the real deal without the sugar-coating:

Xavier had developed a reputation with the feds in terms of their dealings with alleged rape cases on their campus. They showed themselves to be more concerned about Xavier's image than the rights of the alleged victim. See this link:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...assault-claims

Imagine that a board made up of professors and students from Xavier review the actions of a basketball player who was investigated for a "sexual incident" recently and suggest his expulsion from the university. Do you think the basketball interests within the university will have the clout to step in and manipulate the ruling with the feds looking over their shoulders? It might have happened back in the days of CJ Anderson, before the world was catching on to how things are run by the X basketball mafia and the feds were involved, but not now. If they did it under current circumstances, it could go nuclear as a scandal.

Sidenote: X even prevented students from protesting the CJ Anderson situation at Cintas Center back in the day. They said that it could "endanger students".

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthBomber on August 22, 2012

Xavier really had no other option than to kick Wells out of school in this case. See my post above.

Not many people know they are in trouble with the feds.

These are some conditions of the agreement that X had to sign with the feds:

Quote:

Xavier must:

• Create new procedures for students and employees to file sex discrimination, assault and harassment complaints.

• Designate and train a Title IX coordinator.

• Include students on its Title IX task force.

• Conduct “climate checks” on campus to see if the procedures are working.

• Review sexual assault complaints during the last two years to ensure discrimination is not ongoing.

• Pay for counseling services from April 2011 to the present and for one year for one complainant who still is a student. If the male student in that case returns to Xavier, it must “take appropriate measures to protect Student A in the educational setting.”

Background of federal investigation:

• Complaints were filed with the Education Department’s Office of Civil Rights in July 2011, November 2011 and January 2012.

• Two of the three complainants have graduated from Xavier.

• A male student was found responsible in 2009 for sexual assault in a campus disciplinary hearing but allowed to remain on campus to complete that semester.

• After a one-semester suspension, he was involved in another incident and again found responsible by a disciplinary board. Xavier again allowed him to complete the semester before his expulsion.

• The third complainant still is a student at Xavier.

• She complained in 2009-10 about sexual harassment and stalking, resulting in a no-contact order.

• XU contended that the case was not a sexual harassment case because there was no sexual contact, and lifted the order, according to the OCR report. It also did not report the case to the OCR.

AdamtheFlyer · 08-28-2012, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudFlap

Guess you'll have to amend your mancrush for Paul Daugherty. Turns out he is a f'ing, despicable liar we always knew he was. Apologies in order.

Apologies for what? My liking of his column wasn't based on his opinion of Dez, but on the larger issue facing Xavier and how they respond to these issues, past, present, and future. He raised questions. Xavier just answered them.

z8-Minutemen · 08-28-2012, 12:00 PM

Wells is the victim in this situation, and Xavier is in a lot of trouble. In trying to better their image they've made it worse.

1. Dez is clearly innocent and they handled the situation terribly. They felt the need to make an example out of an athlete when they could have done it to anyone else. And like someone said before, if you're using a person as an example then they better actually be guilty. This really hurts Xavier's reputation.

2. In trying to make a statement, they happened to do this to a black athlete, which only makes the situation worse.

3. Basketball is the face of Xavier. If you want a stronger image and rep then you need to sustain a good basketball team. Why take out your star player to simply prove a point when there are many other students who have done the same thing? Even if he is reinstated I'm afraid it's too late as Wells will definitely go to another school due to trust issues with Xavier. And now the team suffers too.

Xavier blew it, and now their national reputation will plummet in many areas.

UMass87 · 08-28-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddy Waters

The feds gave Xavier University some assistance in that area:

I have seen nothing to indicate that the "feds gave Xavier University some assistance in that area". It appears that the DOJ told Xavier to get their shit together. I very much doubt they told Xavier to expel Dez. The fact is that Universities have to deal with sexual misconduct. There's a lot of it going on at schools and always has been. Xavier is not alone in facing this so one is left to wonder why they keep screwing it up.

Flyer75 · 08-28-2012, 12:02 PM

A couple possible outcomes here still to come: One, WILL XU reinstate Wells?? Either way, the school is really going to look bad no matter what happens from here on out. Once again, XU didn't get out in front of a story. The people working there must literally be 90 years old or more not to realize the impact of media in these things. The "other side" is now out in front, Xavier is left behind again.

Two, will Wells even want to come back. It's pretty much known now that some big time schools are interested in him.

AdamtheFlyer · 08-28-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer75

A couple possible outcomes here still to come: One, WILL XU reinstate Wells?? Either way, the school is really going to look bad no matter what happens from here on out. Once again, XU didn't get out in front of a story. The people working there must literally be 90 years old or more not to realize the impact of media in these things. The "other side" is now out in front, Xavier is left behind again.

Two, will Wells even want to come back. It's pretty much known now that some big time schools are interested in him.

Xavier released a statement today that the decision is final.

Flyer75 · 08-28-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z8-Minutemen

Wells is the victim in this situation, and Xavier is in a lot of trouble. In trying to better their image they've made it worse.

1. Dez is clearly innocent and they handled the situation terribly. They felt the need to make an example out of an athlete when they could have done it to anyone else. And like someone said before, if you're using a person as an example then they better actually be guilty. This really hurts Xavier's reputation.

2. In trying to make a statement, they happened to do this to a black athlete, which only makes the situation worse.

Xavier blew it, and now their national reputation will plummet in many areas.

I agree with your point 3 for the most part. I disagree with 1 and 2. Dez may be innocent of any crime, and I have to think that he is innocent of any crime, but it still doesn't mean he isn't guilty of a violation of a student misconduct, which is all the school stated anyway. I don't recall the school ever saying he was guilty or committed a crime.

Point 2: because Wells is a black athlete is actually helping his case right now. Look, in my line of work, I've seen a lot of joe schmoe students kicked out of UD for the littlest things that would be absolutely nothing to any of us as adults but it happens, more then you think. You just don't ever hear about it BECAUSE they aren't basetball players. Now, there are certainly holes in these standards at private schools and not every kid gets caught and not every kid gets kicked out, but some do and we don't ever hear about it and no prosecutor gets on a radio station and talks about it. They go home with mommy and daddy and start over a new at Sinclair.

A10fan2 · 08-28-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uddunk

Still unanswered is why would a prosecutor present a baseless case to a grand jury? Given his statements does anyone believe any incriminating evidence was even presented? Grand jury proceedings are secret so nobody will ever know what evidence was presented or excluded.

I haven't seen any evidence that the prosecutor felt publicly pressured to prosecute Wells, because nobody really knows what happened. I think he is definitely pursuing an agenda and getting Wells reinstated to the Xavier basketball team is clearly it. It's his own words.

Xavier is required to notify the police whenever these types of allegations are made. The police have to investigate. Do you think they have a copy of the boards hearing on the case? The prosecutors weren't pressured, they were doing their jobs. The prosecutors heard both sides of the case and presented their findings to a grand jury because that's the way the legal system works. It's really not that hard to comprehend. Deters "agenda" could well be to try to set the record straight and not let a kid get hurt. Good for him but it has NOTHING to do with Deters wanting Wells reinstated because he plays basketball for Xavier. He's even stated that he's a UC fan.

Flyer75 · 08-28-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamtheFlyer

Xavier released a statement today that the decision is final.

Well, they pretty much had to stand by it. If they back track, they look just downright awful...if they don't, they just look downright bad. Lose lose.

z8-Minutemen · 08-28-2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer75

Well, they pretty much had to stand by it. If they back track, they look just downright awful...if they don't, they just look downright bad. Lose lose.

See that's the wrong idea. Basketball is far more important to their image than something like this. In april, people won't remember how badly they treated this case by backtracking, instead they will remember that NCAA birth they would have had if he was reinstated.

Flyer75 · 08-28-2012, 12:27 PM

Ya you might be right about that.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using VerticalSports.Com App

Snipe · 08-28-2012, 12:36 PM

This is just a disaster. The Department of Education came in and threatened Xavier after another "he said-she said" rape case that the police decided didn't merit a trial. They threatened Xavier and Xavier had to agree to a certain procedure for these things, and this is the result of that new procedure. A bunch of liberal feminists I am sure were his judge and jury.

Screw the DOE. Screw Xavier's capitulation. Long Live Dez!

Snipe · 08-28-2012, 12:41 PM

And Joe Deters, the Prosecutor is a UC guy. He isn't some Xavier partisan, and he is well respected in Cincinnati. He is known as a "tough on crime" guy and he prides himself on that. He is not likely to stick his neck out for Dez Wells unless he actually believes what he is talking about. I would treat his public testimony in this as unbiased and professional.

It is also quite disturbing that this can happen. It makes me both fighting mad and want to throw up all at the same time. As someone said before, if you want to make an example of someone, you better make sure that they are guilty.

I feel bad for Dez and I wish him well wherever he does. I would like to get Obama's DOE out of Xavier, and I hope to God we rid that sonofabitch of his current home in DC. Let him go back to live in Tony Rezco's place in Chi-town.

08-28-2012, 11:46 AM	#31 (permalink)
AdamtheFlyer Star Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,819 Rep Power: 157851	Re: Dez is Back Xavier's really got their heels dug in. That's fine, but it's a dangerous precedent to set. __________________ Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

08-28-2012, 12:00 PM	#35 (permalink)
z8-Minutemen Player Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 632 Rep Power: 153363	Re: Dez is Back Wells is the victim in this situation, and Xavier is in a lot of trouble. In trying to better their image they've made it worse. 1. Dez is clearly innocent and they handled the situation terribly. They felt the need to make an example out of an athlete when they could have done it to anyone else. And like someone said before, if you're using a person as an example then they better actually be guilty. This really hurts Xavier's reputation. 2. In trying to make a statement, they happened to do this to a black athlete, which only makes the situation worse. 3. Basketball is the face of Xavier. If you want a stronger image and rep then you need to sustain a good basketball team. Why take out your star player to simply prove a point when there are many other students who have done the same thing? Even if he is reinstated I'm afraid it's too late as Wells will definitely go to another school due to trust issues with Xavier. And now the team suffers too. Xavier blew it, and now their national reputation will plummet in many areas. __________________ Dallas Cowboys- 5 super bowls and counting... UMass Minutemen- 8 tournament appearances, 1 final four. Alumni: Julius 'Dr. J' Erving, Marcus Camby Northeastern Huskies- 7 tournament appearances. Alumni: Reggie Lewis, Jose Juan 'JJ' Barea

08-28-2012, 12:02 PM	#37 (permalink)
Flyer75 Star Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,837 Rep Power: 37278	Re: Dez is Back A couple possible outcomes here still to come: One, WILL XU reinstate Wells?? Either way, the school is really going to look bad no matter what happens from here on out. Once again, XU didn't get out in front of a story. The people working there must literally be 90 years old or more not to realize the impact of media in these things. The "other side" is now out in front, Xavier is left behind again. Two, will Wells even want to come back. It's pretty much known now that some big time schools are interested in him.

08-28-2012, 12:36 PM	#44 (permalink)
Snipe The Arsenal Of Democracy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Victory Parkway Posts: 3,990 Rep Power: 0	Re: Dez is Back This is just a disaster. The Department of Education came in and threatened Xavier after another "he said-she said" rape case that the police decided didn't merit a trial. They threatened Xavier and Xavier had to agree to a certain procedure for these things, and this is the result of that new procedure. A bunch of liberal feminists I am sure were his judge and jury. Screw the DOE. Screw Xavier's capitulation. Long Live Dez!

08-28-2012, 12:41 PM	#45 (permalink)
Snipe The Arsenal Of Democracy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Victory Parkway Posts: 3,990 Rep Power: 0	Re: Dez is Back And Joe Deters, the Prosecutor is a UC guy. He isn't some Xavier partisan, and he is well respected in Cincinnati. He is known as a "tough on crime" guy and he prides himself on that. He is not likely to stick his neck out for Dez Wells unless he actually believes what he is talking about. I would treat his public testimony in this as unbiased and professional. It is also quite disturbing that this can happen. It makes me both fighting mad and want to throw up all at the same time. As someone said before, if you want to make an example of someone, you better make sure that they are guilty. I feel bad for Dez and I wish him well wherever he does. I would like to get Obama's DOE out of Xavier, and I hope to God we rid that sonofabitch of his current home in DC. Let him go back to live in Tony Rezco's place in Chi-town.

08-28-2012, 12:27 PM	#43 (permalink)
Flyer75 Star Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,837 Rep Power: 37278	Ya you might be right about that. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using VerticalSports.Com App

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