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Old 11-14-2012, 01:10 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

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Originally Posted by paulxu View Post
Knobby, you are dead on that a couple of wins doesn't mean squat in the long run of a season.

But you are wrong about not proving anything. We may not have the horses as in years past, and certainly we will struggle against some of the projected power teams in the conference, and who knows where we'll end up.

But they proved that they have risen above all that crap from last year; it's behind the team and they're focused on this year. And the Butler game proved (what many of us knew all along based on the last 3 years)....Chris Mack can coach.
This.

I care who was on the other side of the ball, but I mostly care about how Xavier handled itself in this game.

It doesn't matter that it's two games in and it doesn't matter that it was Butler, because Xavier set the tone and the pace on both sides of the ball. More to the point, as I stated in my previous post, they managed to look like they were in late - or at least later - season form doing it. What happened yesterday is miles from the perception of what was expected to happen - - many saw Xavier putting out a version of the Keystone Cops for the first time in decades. That is the key point, regardless of how early it is in the season.

This is team basketball played by mostly solid athletes. Xavier didn't look this poised this time last year. To me, it's about a solid coach who has molded the players into a team and it's about them having a chip on their shoulder, wanting to prove the naysayers wrong.

I understand that it's a long season. I understand we haven't played away from home yet. I understand some of you don't believe Butler is all that. But what I do understand is that Xavier has come out executing on both sides of the ball rather handsomely so far. I understand that we have team ball taking place, versus the star power show we've had in recent years through Crawford, Tu, etc. So far, so very good, versus so far, this is going to be as long a year as we all thought it would be.

BTW, if Xavier brings this level of execution and intensity, especially to its key match ups, "struggling" may not be a part of the result for them.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:18 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

I wish Xavier well. Them performing well in the OOC is good for the league. Someone else though hit the nail on the head when they said the sample size is a bit too small. Injuries, playing more athletic teams, fatigue etc. could all take their toll on this team, so let's see how they play through December before getting too giddy.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:25 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

The "chip" and the resulting defense look great, credit to Mack and staff.

As for the offense, I didn't see the first game. But they hit a LOT of shots against Butler....18-27 on two point field goals by the 7 guys in the rotation. That's incredible. They weren't all dunks and layups off steals, either. They were hitting all sorts of shots, some pretty difficult. I don't think teams often shoot 67% from anywhere but the line against Butler.
It sounds silly, but hitting shots makes an offense look so good.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:55 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

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Originally Posted by Flyer75 View Post
Some of us didn't buy into the horsecrap that Butler was a 3rd-5th place team in this league. Some of that was X themselves and how well they played but as Adam said, Butler is very near the bottom of this league in horses.
Just like with us, it's probably way to early in the year to know what the hell will happen. Stevens and Smart will adjust from these loses and get better. Their history of success proves they have that coaching capability. My point of course was that Mack is a good coach too.

As to who did or did not buy into the Butler hype, someone needs to call Vegas and tell them making X a 4 point dog at home is not always they best way to go.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

How is it "not the best way to go"? Are the Vegas oddsmakers Butler fans? Dayton fans?
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:21 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

could it be their nearly 90% winning percentage @ Cintas?
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:24 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

I think the point is that rating X an underdog on its own floor has a motivational effect. Defending "our house" against all enemies, foreign and domestic, has been a hallmark at Xavier since moving to Cintas, even in (relatively) down years.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:05 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

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Originally Posted by WH View Post
It is true that I forecast a 13th place finish for Xavier this season. Based on what I saw last night, the X-men should finish several spots higher than that.

But it’s a long season and I never make judgments based on a game or two. FDU fielded a non-Division 1 team and Butler did not play well. Xavier has very little depth and that’s a big factor in my thinking. I expect a long season will take its toll.
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In my noncon forecast, I said Xavier would do better than I expected if “Semaj Christon plays like the rookie of the year; Travis Taylor plays like an all-conference player , Dee Davis makes a huge sophomore leap; and Brad Redford become more than just an situational outside threat. Oh, and the Muskies cannot afford any injuries!”

Well, Davis has played great so far. Taylor looks like the player Xavier thought it was getting when he transferred in. And Redford looks sharp.

Criston? A little rocky, but he made a few outstanding plays. Kid is definitely a stud.
Ah, I get it. So if Xavier completely plummets... well then look, WH was right all along. But if Xavier has a decent year, well then see, WH told us they'd do better than his questionable 13th place finish in the A-10 if their starters have a really good season.

No wonder some on here think WH really has the pulse on A-10 basketball. He can't be wrong!
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:31 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

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Originally Posted by xavierhoops View Post
Ah, I get it. So if Xavier completely plummets... well then look, WH was right all along. But if Xavier has a decent year, well then see, WH told us they'd do better than his questionable 13th place finish in the A-10 if their starters have a really good season.

No wonder some on here think WH really has the pulse on A-10 basketball. He can't be wrong!
Give it a rest. He makes predictions, then gives qualifications to those predictions based on if he's wrong about various factors. Seems like that's smart, better than blindly proclaiming bold predictions with complete confidence. In fact, we generally ridicule the posters on here that do that. And he also is man enough to admit when he's wrong about things, and thinks about why he was wrong in his posts. I'm willing to bet that a lot of posters wouldn't be willing to wade through the mind-numbingly tedious Dayton-Xavier crapfest on here if not for WH posting.

He knows more than most fans about these teams because he watches a lot more games of the other teams in the league than most fans do. You might know Xavier better, but I doubt you know the rest of the league better.

I still think Xavier finishes lower half of the league due to lack of depth. Sometimes teams get through a season without major injuries or frequent foul trouble. But usually at least one player goes down during the year.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:13 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

Has anyone seen ANY Butler fans??? At first I was just looking for Title_BU because he's Butler's Z8/Twister but I haven't seen a single Butler post since that pathetic display their team put on.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:24 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

Ant- I was just saying its prolly not that hard to make predictions like that.

I think UMASS will finish 6th in the A-10 this year. Unless their starters player really, really well this season... They could do a lot better than 6th.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:33 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

seems reasonable Xavierhoops. UMass could finish sixth. They could finish second. I wouldn't bet on them placing anywere outside of that range but I can't say where they will finish, either. I doubt Butler is anywhere near as bad as Xavier made them look which leads me to believe Xavier is not going to finish worse than tenth. I would bet Xavier finishes between fifth and tenth in the A10.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:54 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

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Originally Posted by xavierhoops View Post
Ant- I was just saying its prolly not that hard to make predictions like that. I think UMASS will finish 6th in the A-10 this year. Unless their starters player really, really well this season... They could do a lot better than 6th.
By all means, then, offer your own league-wide predictions. More the merrier!

See, I don't make predictions because I have any special knowledge of A-10 basketball. I do it to generate discussion among league aficionados who love hoops and enjoy basketball talk. I WANT fans of other teams to chime in. That's the whole point of this board.

Besides, if I thought I knew everything, I'd never bother posting here. I'd be on Wall Street making a fortune!

Posters can choose to ridicule - or contribute. I enjoy banter with the latter and ignore the former.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:03 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

Far be it for me to defend WH but I think his posts on finish order and what I'm willing to say about finish order says it all. WH won't just predict an OOC record he'll put in writing exactly how it will happen. He will make sure his conference predictions add up. Me, I am willing to predict within five or six rank orders where a team will finish. Surprise, I'm probably more accurate than WH. It's easy when you have no precision.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:21 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Re: Xavier v Butler, Butler v Xavier

WH certainly is more accurate than any of those national basketball magazines, at least for the years I have been following him. And, his are free. And offer more unbiased detail. And, he has a solid knowledge of A10 history, which can be very significant in the forecast for a team.

I sometimes wonder where the magazines find the characters that write individual team profiles and projections. Bars that offer too many 2 for 1 beers.
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