Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

Butler

11K views 101 replies 43 participants last post by  Title_BU 
#1 · (Edited)
Clearly it’s too early to make judgments about our two newest members, but the games on Wednesday certainly gave us A-10 fans a taste of what to expect.

Personally, I partly discount the Butler loss. The Bulldogs looked very much like a work in progress and a team searching for its identity.

Start with the offense. I didn’t see the normal sharp cuts, crisp passing and ball motion I associate with Butler. Clarke and Dunham looked for their shot too quickly and they hoisted some contested treys after a few dribbles. That’s why they didn’t shoot so well.

The guards need to move the ball first, try to set up teammates and shoot within the flow of the offense. It’s a lot easier to hit a trey behind a good screen than shooting in the face of a defender. Quick shots by the guards also leads to other players standing around. It happened last night.

Yes, it would help if Butler showed a better inside game, but a good team doesn’t have to have a consistent post presence to run a crisp offense. Ball movement and player movement – the Butler way! - is critical. That was mostly absent last night.

The defense, for its part, was subpar. Frankly, I cannot remember the last time an A-10 team started two white guys in the backcourt. Dunham especially looked like a freshman on defense - couple of picks almost knocked him to the floor. Clarke isn’t known as a great defender, either.

That's going to be a problem all year long. Neither one of those guys can guard a topflight A-10 PG like Williams or Duren and so forth.

The Butler frontcourt was beaten up pretty good by Xavier, too. The Bulldogs don’t have great length and athleticism inside. Doesn’t mean players can’t box out, however.

The good news is that Xavier actually has more length and athleticism in its frontcourt than a majority of A-10 teams. Still, Andrew Smith is not going to dominate in our league. He tends not to play well against big, athletic frontcourts. Marshall is not a go-to post player, either.

I expect Butler to show lots of improvement over the year, and Hinkle will prove to be a very tough place for most A-10 teams to play. Finishing in the top 5 of the league, however, won’t be easy. Not at all.
 
See less See more
#33 ·
That North Carolina team is not the 9th best in the country. Not even close. Bunch of young, thin guys. Got talent, all right, but they got pushed around by older players and didn't play hard until very late. Typical immaturity of underclassmen who haven't been through many struggles.

Still, it's North Carolina! Great win for Butler. They played extremely hard. Extremely.

What it means for the season? We'll know in about four months.
 
#42 ·
WH, UNC may not be the 9th best, but they are top 25 for sure. And Butler crushed them, with no issues, minus a little scare at the end of the game. They basically gave a big "**** YOU" to yours and a AdamtheFlyer's BS analysis after one loss.
 
#35 ·
Conditioning looked to be a factor for NC. They were bending over gasping for air even in the first half. BU does a good job with conditioning. Freshman Dunham came in the best shape of all players. This win helps BU's confidence, but it's over now and next game up. NC could use this like BU used their humble loss to Xavier.
 
#36 ·
Strawman. No one ever said they couldn't play. They can shoot and pass, all right. But against Xavier they could not defend.

That's why Stigall is getting more minutes. Stevens is careful now, after the X loss exposed the Butler backcourt defense, about when he puts Clarke and Dunham on the court at the same time. Dunham is being used more selectively.

Stigall is a white guy, too, but he's older, knows the system, knows his role and plays better defense. Dunham also seems to be playing a few more minutes at small forward where he is not as exposed defensively.

Clarke and Dunham aren't going to win any games with their defense. But if their offense is always as good as it was vs. UNC, that won't be a huge problem. We'll see.
 
#44 ·
Great win for Butler. I'm not sure UNC deserves the 9th ranking but great win nonetheless. It's pretty obvious if you let Dunham and Clarke rain deep threes you're gonna lose. When UNC's athletes starting asserting themselves the game changed drastically. That is UNC's problem not Butlers. Great job and congrats to the Bulldogs.
 
#50 ·
Hey Butler fans - the best thing that can happen for your team around here is for the UD crew to pile on as they so often do. They've been predicting Xavier's demise since we moved to the A10. Like a charm, UD fans predict doom and gloom for X in every successful year (okay - that's been nearly every year for a while now).

Really, it will become music to your ears. An unexpected loss -- 512 posts about how your team sucks, your coach isn't good enough for 3rd grade CYO, "facts" and CHARTS demonstrating the impending implosion of your program -- and finally, success, sweet 16's and more. Get used to it – it really does develop a nice, enjoyable rhythm. Oh yeah, nevermind their predictions for the Flyers – they’ve been on the verge of “repeating as national champs” for 44 years now.
 
#51 ·
WH, you mentioned on Xavier - Butler Game thread about not taking November games too seriously in terms of jumping to conclusions one way or another. The year that hit me also involved the Maui tournament. Can't remember the year? Maybe the board can fill in the details. I believe it was a Ball State team that scored two huge upsets and then took a highly rated Duke team to the mat in the final game and lost a close one. I thought for all the world that Ball State was a shoo-in for the NCAA. They never made the field! Please correct me if I am wrong. I find myself having more and more senior moments!:)
 
#55 ·
I remember that Ball State team. I even saw one of the games they won. Ball State beat Kansas and UCLA back to back. Ball State had a forward named Smith who I thought would be an NBA player.

That was about 10 years ago! Ball State ended up in the NIT and that kid Smith had a cup of coffee in the NBA.

I try never to be too judgmental in November. Usually a team has shown itself by the end of the December, but if you recall, there was a certain Elite 8 team fielded by Xavier that didnt really get its act together until mid to late January.

You can see lots of teams trying to work out the kinks now. Butler, obviously. UMass and LaSalle have had issues. Bona is trying to figure out how to live life without Andrew.

Others have been more cohesive early on. Dayton, Xavier, Temple, St Joe's.

We all risk embarrassment by being too certain too early. The unpredictable nature of every season is what makes college basketball so enjoyable.
 
#52 ·
Last night was a great win for Butler. Like it has been stated before, sometimes it takes an a**whipping to wake up. Xavier put it to Butler in all facets of the game. The biggest key to that game was the physicality Xavier showed and a flat Butler was never able to respond after the first punch. Since them, Brad and Co. seems to have ingrained the toughness aspect of the game into the kids heads. They out-physicalled a very physical Marquette team and pushed around a bigger, albeit very skinny UNC. If they are able to stay physical and crash the boards for 40 Minutes, they will be tough this year. The more active they are, the better shots their shooters will find! I think I say for all Butler fans, we are looking forward to the A10 grind and can't wait for a great season.
 
#53 ·
Kellen Dunham is the truth! That kid can flat-out stroke it from deep. He's the kind of kid I wish Xavier had.
 
#56 ·
Umass averted an early season disaster with their buzzer beater:
http://www.umassathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/111312hu.html

Harvard was awful last night. Being down 4 to them with a minute and change left is pretty bad.
VCU, Butler, St Louis, Lasalle have all had early season pigs. They will improve.
Last year, St Joe got out of the gate really well and then got inconsistant in the second half of the year. I would rather get the bad stuff out of the way early than fade in February!
Good luck to all a -10, especially Butler vs Illinois today(Has a-10 ever won Maui?) and VCU tomorrow vs Memphis!
 
#58 ·
Thanks for helping my memory, WH. And as I now remember it, Kansas, UCLA, and Duke were all highly ranked. And Ball State led Duke midway through the second half. If any team thought they were headed to the NCAA in November, that team had the right. But the season is never a sprint!
 
#64 ·
Hawk, UD had played in the event a few years prior (Arizona was #1 at the time, UD knocked off UConn before losing to Zona then beat Maryland).

I'm assuming that UD is using its Marianist connections (UD, Chaminade & St Mary's-Texas are the only 3 in the country I believe) to make themselves a "fixture" at Mauii every handful of years.
 
#67 ·
I'm going to have to go ahead and call Butler the new favorite in the A-10. I may be a homer, but I don't think it's that far-fetched that VCU is #2. The newcomers are doing quite well so far.

Brad Stevens is a ridiculous, ridiculous coach. Indiana was more talented but Stevens was unbelievable out there. Quite impressed and Butler's got some nice pieces as well, not taking anything away from that team.

They easily have the most impressive OOC slate so far in the A-10. Wins over Marquette, North Carolina, @Northwestern, and Indiana are nothing to scoff at.

Their RPI right now is 3. That's right, 3.
 
#69 ·
Yeah, X beating Butler is really just proof that Xavier is not as bad as people hope they are. On any given day, a good team can beat another, and that's what happened there. It was very early and against a team that ended up being pretty good (much like VCU's loss to Wichita State early in the season).

A lot of people expected X to be mediocre early, so a loss to them tainted all the perceptions of how good Butler was. Clearly they have shown that it was a bit of an early hiccup as well as X not being as bad as people want to think.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top