Butler - Page 5 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

DarkFlyer · 11-21-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkhill

(Has a-10 ever won Maui?)

Dayton won it in 2004 behind Ramod Marshall, Keith Waleskowski, and Sean Finn. It was Gregory's first season.

Go Butler, bring some glory to the conference.

hawkhill · 11-21-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFlyer

Dayton won it in 2004 behind Ramod Marshall, Keith Waleskowski, and Sean Finn. It was Gregory's first season.

Go Butler, bring some glory to the conference.

Thanks
just reading about it on wikipedia
ironically, the only a-10 team to play in the championship up til now also
I see Dayton is slated to return next year- wonder if the kids in the yellow school busses will make the trip?

2013
Arkansas
Baylor
California
Dayton
Gonzaga
Minnesota
Syracuse
Chaminade
Four additional mainland teams to be named later

Again best of luck to Butler tonight!!!!! and to VCU vs no. 19 Memphis tomorrow

Bona84 · 11-21-2012, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Title_BU

8TH was for games prior to UNC. I can't imagine they aren't 1 this evening.

Nope. Sitting 3rd behind perennial powers Belmont and SMU.

Medford · 11-21-2012, 10:59 AM

Hawk, UD had played in the event a few years prior (Arizona was #1 at the time, UD knocked off UConn before losing to Zona then beat Maryland).

I'm assuming that UD is using its Marianist connections (UD, Chaminade & St Mary's-Texas are the only 3 in the country I believe) to make themselves a "fixture" at Mauii every handful of years.

WH · 11-21-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REF

Does that include pre-season championship claims?

Happy Thanksgiving folks!

Of course. Anyone who makes lots of preseason predictions, including me, is bound to be very wrong about some teams or players.

Personally, I love seeing which teams surprise and disappoint, which players step up or fail to. It's all part of the wonderful surprise of college basketball. Probably why I like the college so much more than salary-capped pro league whose player movement is limited.

I just prefer the bad surprises not involve UMass! (-

GoMuskies · 12-15-2012, 08:59 PM

Gosh, I'm still really worried about Butler being able to compete in the big, bad A-10. I mean, they start white guards. Have you all heard that? White guards!

DistrictBaller · 12-15-2012, 09:12 PM

I'm going to have to go ahead and call Butler the new favorite in the A-10. I may be a homer, but I don't think it's that far-fetched that VCU is #2. The newcomers are doing quite well so far.

Brad Stevens is a ridiculous, ridiculous coach. Indiana was more talented but Stevens was unbelievable out there. Quite impressed and Butler's got some nice pieces as well, not taking anything away from that team.

They easily have the most impressive OOC slate so far in the A-10. Wins over Marquette, North Carolina, @Northwestern, and Indiana are nothing to scoff at.

Their RPI right now is 3. That's right, 3.

GoMuskies · 12-15-2012, 09:26 PM

Big deal beating those teams. The experts in this thread have seen your team and deemed it not A-10 ready. And you've lost to the only A-10 team you've faced, so logic is clearly on their side.

DistrictBaller · 12-15-2012, 09:30 PM

Yeah, X beating Butler is really just proof that Xavier is not as bad as people hope they are. On any given day, a good team can beat another, and that's what happened there. It was very early and against a team that ended up being pretty good (much like VCU's loss to Wichita State early in the season).

A lot of people expected X to be mediocre early, so a loss to them tainted all the perceptions of how good Butler was. Clearly they have shown that it was a bit of an early hiccup as well as X not being as bad as people want to think.

mm4cc · 12-15-2012, 09:40 PM

Butler undeniably has the two best wins of an A10 team so far this season. Both Butler and VCU are the favorites for the conference right now. I hate to have the new guys come in and immediately do so well, but there is a reason they were invited to the conference. St. Joes has been a little disappointing, St Louis without Kwamain and Majerus isn't the same, Xavier is decimated but still competing, and Temple isn't quite as good as they usually are. There are still many games to be played, but right now I would put Butler at 1 and VCU at a close 2.

ItsyBitsySpiderII · 12-16-2012, 04:21 AM

Both Butler and VCU have been very impressive against challenging schedules and have to be the front runners. However! In looking at the rest of the league, there's no reason why Richmond can't challenge for the three or four spot.

DistrictBaller · 12-16-2012, 05:10 AM

Agreed. Tons of parity with several very good teams after Butler and VCU. All are capable of beating anybody in the league, but inconsistent for whatever reason. It's still early and teams could still be putting things together. I expect Saint Louis for example to be much better when Kwamain Mitchell gets back. How much better? I'm not sure.

UR has shown big-time offensive ability and an experienced high-scoring back court like the one the Spiders have will win a good amount of games. I still think Richmond has work to do defensively if they want to finish that high. That switching man-to-man that was so effective in 2010 and 2011 is not quite as good as it was. I'm sure Mooney is working on that. Getting Nelson-Ododa more involved is also important. He can be very, very good and the Spiders need his size against some of the bigger squads in the A-10.

MudFlap · 12-16-2012, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamtheFlyer

I think Stevens will fix everything that can be fixed, and a strong home court will keep Butler competitive. But ultimately, their lack of athleticism and lack of a play making PG will be keep them in the middle of the pack.

I see basketball in three acts. Transition, base offense, and late clock ad-libs.

Butler will struggle defensively in transition. They don't have the horses to run. Offensively they can have success, because the defense will be cheating on the quick three. They can attack with cutting bigs on the secondary break, as well as a quick reversal for an open three.

Base offense is where Butler will have success. They will run good sets and will scout well enough to slow yours. Even lesser athletes can defend when they have a good idea of what their man is doing. The more shots taken with somewhere between 20 and 10 seconds on the shot clock, the better the chances Butler will win a game.

Late clock situations will be a struggle for Butler. These can often mimic the transition game because it becomes more about sheer athleticism, and it's far less predictable than base offense. When the base offense is run and no shot is had, the PG typically pulls the ball out and sets up something, be it a high ball screen, a quick 1-4 set, or a two man high-low game. Essentially, there is a lot of one-on-one action. Defensively Butler will struggle with the high ball screen against quick guards, and they will struggle to handle skilled bigs. When it becomes a choice for a defender, I don't see the ability to handle a guard, nor the speed to rotate everyone to close the passing lanes a high screen or 1-4 set will create. In fact, I wonder if A10 teams with better guards will just scrap the base offense altogether and just run 30 seconds of quick hit sets. There are a lot of mismatches you can create on Butler's defense in a quick strike setting.

Offensively Butler has no one who can consistently create off a ball screen and the bigs will struggle to score 1-on-1 against A10 bigs. I think late clock situations will lead to a lot of open looks and FTs for opponents, and a lot of rushed, contested jumpers for Butler.

Overall, Butler will be decent, and they certainly will get better. But so will everyone else. Stevens will help. Given an average coach, Butler would struggle to win 5 games. Stevens is worth 4 wins on his own, so Butler will likely win between 7-9 A10 games. But coaching can only do so much. I don't think this is a roster built to win big in this league. Not yet. The immediate entry in the league hurt Butler a lot more than VCU. They just aren't A10 ready.

Yeah, BU ain't ready for the A-10. Crawford sucks, Semaj sucks, Henton no good. Devin Oliver All World. Do you guys ever read your posts?

ktabz16 · 12-16-2012, 06:03 AM

our newcomers haven't experienced the unique a10 phenomenon of the ooc/conf equivalency coefficient. your performance ooc is directly inverse to your performance in conference. if there was a team that was expected to do well and has a poor ooc, they will get their shit together in the conference and bring down some teams that did well ooc. happens every year.

Title_BU · 12-16-2012, 06:24 AM

RPI Top 3: Duke, Butler, Michigan

11-21-2012, 10:59 AM	#64 (permalink)
Medford Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 668 Rep Power: 156221	Re: Butler Hawk, UD had played in the event a few years prior (Arizona was #1 at the time, UD knocked off UConn before losing to Zona then beat Maryland). I'm assuming that UD is using its Marianist connections (UD, Chaminade & St Mary's-Texas are the only 3 in the country I believe) to make themselves a "fixture" at Mauii every handful of years.

12-15-2012, 08:59 PM	#66 (permalink)
GoMuskies 6th Man Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 256 Rep Power: 1659	Re: Butler Gosh, I'm still really worried about Butler being able to compete in the big, bad A-10. I mean, they start white guards. Have you all heard that? White guards!

12-15-2012, 09:12 PM	#67 (permalink)
DistrictBaller Veteran Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 1,168 Rep Power: 47841	Re: Butler I'm going to have to go ahead and call Butler the new favorite in the A-10. I may be a homer, but I don't think it's that far-fetched that VCU is #2. The newcomers are doing quite well so far. Brad Stevens is a ridiculous, ridiculous coach. Indiana was more talented but Stevens was unbelievable out there. Quite impressed and Butler's got some nice pieces as well, not taking anything away from that team. They easily have the most impressive OOC slate so far in the A-10. Wins over Marquette, North Carolina, @Northwestern, and Indiana are nothing to scoff at. Their RPI right now is 3. That's right, 3. __________________ "We will wreak havoc on our opponent's psyche and plan of attack." - VCU Head Coach Shaka Smart

12-15-2012, 09:26 PM	#68 (permalink)
GoMuskies 6th Man Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 256 Rep Power: 1659	Re: Butler Big deal beating those teams. The experts in this thread have seen your team and deemed it not A-10 ready. And you've lost to the only A-10 team you've faced, so logic is clearly on their side.

12-15-2012, 09:30 PM	#69 (permalink)
DistrictBaller Veteran Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 1,168 Rep Power: 47841	Re: Butler Yeah, X beating Butler is really just proof that Xavier is not as bad as people hope they are. On any given day, a good team can beat another, and that's what happened there. It was very early and against a team that ended up being pretty good (much like VCU's loss to Wichita State early in the season). A lot of people expected X to be mediocre early, so a loss to them tainted all the perceptions of how good Butler was. Clearly they have shown that it was a bit of an early hiccup as well as X not being as bad as people want to think. __________________ "We will wreak havoc on our opponent's psyche and plan of attack." - VCU Head Coach Shaka Smart

12-15-2012, 09:40 PM	#70 (permalink)
mm4cc Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 152 Rep Power: 26	Re: Butler Butler undeniably has the two best wins of an A10 team so far this season. Both Butler and VCU are the favorites for the conference right now. I hate to have the new guys come in and immediately do so well, but there is a reason they were invited to the conference. St. Joes has been a little disappointing, St Louis without Kwamain and Majerus isn't the same, Xavier is decimated but still competing, and Temple isn't quite as good as they usually are. There are still many games to be played, but right now I would put Butler at 1 and VCU at a close 2.

12-16-2012, 04:21 AM	#71 (permalink)
ItsyBitsySpiderII 6th Man Join Date: Nov 2004 Age: 38 Posts: 494 Rep Power: 2788	Re: Butler Both Butler and VCU have been very impressive against challenging schedules and have to be the front runners. However! In looking at the rest of the league, there's no reason why Richmond can't challenge for the three or four spot.

12-16-2012, 05:10 AM	#72 (permalink)
DistrictBaller Veteran Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 1,168 Rep Power: 47841	Re: Butler Agreed. Tons of parity with several very good teams after Butler and VCU. All are capable of beating anybody in the league, but inconsistent for whatever reason. It's still early and teams could still be putting things together. I expect Saint Louis for example to be much better when Kwamain Mitchell gets back. How much better? I'm not sure. UR has shown big-time offensive ability and an experienced high-scoring back court like the one the Spiders have will win a good amount of games. I still think Richmond has work to do defensively if they want to finish that high. That switching man-to-man that was so effective in 2010 and 2011 is not quite as good as it was. I'm sure Mooney is working on that. Getting Nelson-Ododa more involved is also important. He can be very, very good and the Spiders need his size against some of the bigger squads in the A-10. __________________ "We will wreak havoc on our opponent's psyche and plan of attack." - VCU Head Coach Shaka Smart

12-16-2012, 06:03 AM	#74 (permalink)
ktabz16 Veteran Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,350 Rep Power: 298524	Re: Butler our newcomers haven't experienced the unique a10 phenomenon of the ooc/conf equivalency coefficient. your performance ooc is directly inverse to your performance in conference. if there was a team that was expected to do well and has a poor ooc, they will get their shit together in the conference and bring down some teams that did well ooc. happens every year. __________________ we don't suck

12-16-2012, 06:24 AM	#75 (permalink)
Title_BU 6th Man Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 335 Rep Power: 7011	Re: Butler RPI Top 3: Duke, Butler, Michigan

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