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Old 11-24-2012, 01:42 PM   #196 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Everyone seems to think that the big conferences are just going to keep getting bigger. But at some point, don't some of the schools think "You know, we're dividing this money too many ways?"

At what point does expansion turn into contraction where duplicate markets and perceived weaker links are kicked out of these conferences?

We've seen that loyalty and tradition means absolutely nothing for any of these schools or conferences, at least not when money is involved.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:23 PM   #197 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Treach, 16 just seems to be the magic number for conference alignment and scheduling once a league goes past 12 teams. Numbers between 13-15 don't make sense.

The biggest leagues have also sought to AVOID duplication so far. Look at the Big 10. It's invited Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers, all in areas where the Big 10 did not have a presence. The ACC expansion has also involved new markets.

Someday I could see schools and leagues figuring out that the merger and expansion phase went awry. We've seen it repeatedly in the corporate world. The NCAA almost seems to be mimicking the conglomerate phase in the 1960s. Back then companies bought many other companies in very different business lines. Most of these did not work out and the large conglomerates eventually came unglued in the 1970s and 1980s.

I could see this happening again someday. Heck, I could even see a new Big East forming. But it could take decades to play out.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:28 PM   #198 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Treach, 16 just seems to be the magic number for conference alignment and scheduling once a league goes past 12 teams. Numbers between 13-15 don't make sense.

The biggest leagues have also sought to AVOID duplication so far. Look at the Big 10. It's invited Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers, all in areas where the Big 10 did not have a presence. The ACC expansion has also involved new markets.

Someday I could see schools and leagues figuring out that the merger and expansion phase went awry. We've seen it repeatedly in the corporate world. The NCAA almost seems to be mimicking the conglomerate phase in the 1960s. Back then companies bought many other companies in very different business lines. Most of these did not work out and the large conglomerates eventually came unglued in the 1970s and 1980s.

I could see this happening again someday. Heck, I could even see a new Big East forming. But it could take decades to play out.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:37 PM   #199 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

UMass grad.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:54 PM   #200 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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I think you would find that $50mil exit fee getting shot down in court pretty fast. The rest of it is a good idea, and I agree, more likely or something similar
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Creative thinking, but I doubt anyone wants to go into the room to negotiate a deal that would be DOA. The football schools aren't going to share football money with hoops schools.
What's the ACC's exit fee? $50 million. Maryland voted against that by the way. Now they have to pay it (it'll get negotiated down, sure, but it's a good starting point).

XU, what negotiation? Before July 1, 2013, the hoops schools wouldn't need negotiations. They'd have 7 of 9 votes if UConn and Louisville left. They could impose rules on football, who'd have no say in the matter. That's the whole point of the article: There's a small window where basketball has the power.

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Everyone seems to think that the big conferences are just going to keep getting bigger. But at some point, don't some of the schools think "You know, we're dividing this money too many ways?"

At what point does expansion turn into contraction where duplicate markets and perceived weaker links are kicked out of these conferences?
The problem with "contracting" is that you can't kick people out without lawsuits. The top half can leave (like the Mountain West leaving the WAC, for example).

While it makes total "sense" for the top half to leave and divest themselves of schools like Northwestern, Purdue and Iowa; Mississippi, Miss St, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, etc… to do that, they'd need to leave their conference names behind. The SEC and ACC are powerful brands. The Big Ten would be leaving the Big Ten Network behind and have to start over. So it's not going to happen. But financially, it makes sense.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:40 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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What's the ACC's exit fee? $50 million. Maryland voted against that by the way. Now they have to pay it (it'll get negotiated down, sure, but it's a good starting point).

XU, what negotiation? Before July 1, 2013, the hoops schools wouldn't need negotiations. They'd have 7 of 9 votes if UConn and Louisville left. They could impose rules on football, who'd have no say in the matter. That's the whole point of the article: There's a small window where basketball has the.
I reread your earlier post more carefully. Well done. Absolute voting power would have its advantages!
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:16 PM   #202 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Don't you think these things would be undone as soon as the voting numbers changed?
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:31 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Don't you think these things would be undone as soon as the voting numbers changed?
Yes, assuming the football schools are dumb enough to map into them initially and, if they are that stupid, that the hoops schools are dumb enough to NOT make them binding (i.e. locked provisions that cannot be voted upon) prior to allowing the football schools to vote on the changes
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:34 PM   #204 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Don't you think these things would be undone as soon as the voting numbers changed?
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Yes, assuming the football schools are dumb enough to map into them initially and, if they are that stupid, that the hoops schools are dumb enough to NOT make them binding (i.e. locked provisions that cannot be voted upon) prior to allowing the football schools to vote on the changes
Ah, those rules couldn't be changed. Because if they needed a 2/3 majority to change the rules, only five full members would be added (UCF, SMU, Houston, Temple, Memphis) making it a 7-7 (if UConn and Louisville both left) or 8-7 vote (if only UConn was gone).
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:11 AM   #205 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Or they could do the really smart thing:
Vote 7-3 to raise exit fees to $50 million.
Vote 7-3 to establish full TV rights revenue sharing regardless of sport sponsorship.
Vote 7-3 to establish a "football scheduling tax" or any other ridiculous measure that forces football to WANT to leave.

If football stayed, they'd share their football money with basketball. And if football wanted to leave, they'd have to pay the basketball schools $400 million combined in exit fees. And basketball keeps the Big East name.
This makes too much sense for it to actually happen. Ghosts of Simpson-Bowles and Comprehensive Immigration Reform.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:43 AM   #206 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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What's the ACC's exit fee? $50 million. Maryland voted against that by the way. Now they have to pay it (it'll get negotiated down, sure, but it's a good starting point).

XU, what negotiation? Before July 1, 2013, the hoops schools wouldn't need negotiations. They'd have 7 of 9 votes if UConn and Louisville left. They could impose rules on football, who'd have no say in the matter. That's the whole point of the article: There's a small window where basketball has the power.



The problem with "contracting" is that you can't kick people out without lawsuits. The top half can leave (like the Mountain West leaving the WAC, for example).

While it makes total "sense" for the top half to leave and divest themselves of schools like Northwestern, Purdue and Iowa; Mississippi, Miss St, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, etc… to do that, they'd need to leave their conference names behind. The SEC and ACC are powerful brands. The Big Ten would be leaving the Big Ten Network behind and have to start over. So it's not going to happen. But financially, it makes sense.
The situation you described is apples/oranges to the Maryland situation. Sure there are similarities, but it was done in the ACC to protect the conference as a whole, I'm guessing a judge would look at your $50 mil scenerio and rule that it was not done to protect the conference, but to attact a certain section of the conference for no fault of their own.

I like the idea of them grabbing voting strength, and I think it was something they should have done prior to the latest football expansion w/ Boise, Houston, etc... I just don't think increasing the exit fee in such a clearly punitive manner would fly.
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:13 PM   #207 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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The situation you described is apples/oranges to the Maryland situation. Sure there are similarities, but it was done in the ACC to protect the conference as a whole, I'm guessing a judge would look at your $50 mil scenerio and rule that it was not done to protect the conference, but to attact a certain section of the conference for no fault of their own.

I like the idea of them grabbing voting strength, and I think it was something they should have done prior to the latest football expansion w/ Boise, Houston, etc... I just don't think increasing the exit fee in such a clearly punitive manner would fly.
So they negotiate it down with each leaving school.

The point is: They won't dissolve the Big East because there's dozens of options to achieve their goals AND keep the Big East name.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:13 AM   #208 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...ts-source-said

Tulane to the Big East.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:19 AM   #209 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

This has become such a joke.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:22 AM   #210 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Also, ECU to the Big East in 2014 for football-only.
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