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Old 11-28-2012, 12:36 PM   #271 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

With basketball being the other money sport, I think a group of the left-overs from the Big East would be able to pick off the top of the A-10 to form a very strong basketball conference of schools that would be able to handle the increased travel costs for the non-money sports. A full conference schedule like we have this year would work for basketball. Regionally based divisions could be used to cut travel costs for the non-money sports.

The A-10 would be smart to start looking for the lesser teams of the Big East to join up and then try to attract the bigger teams once the conference falls apart officially. The problem you run into is that those lesser teams would be passing up short term big money since the conference is bundling the football and basketball television deals.

However, if we're being realistic, the smaller schools are going to get left behind since we don't fit the athletic profile of the Big East institutions. DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, and Villanova would poach Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier, Butler, VCU as mentioned and consider picking up a couple of other schools like Creighton and George Mason. As a Bonaventure fan, I'd like to think that we'd be included in the proposed "Catholic Conference," but big school athletic directors are more likely to look at potential money over religious affiliation, leaving the Bonnies, Duquesne, La Salle, St. Joe's, and Fordham to fend for themselves while non-Catholics are included.

So I think you'd see these as the two basketball conferences:
Big East (or something) Basketball: DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier, Butler, VCU, George Mason, Creighton

Catholic Conference: St. Bonaventure, La Salle, St. Joe's, Fordham, Duquesene, Manhattan, Siena, Canisius, Niagara, Loyola, St. Peters, Fairfield, Iona, Holy Cross, Sacred Heart, St. Francis (NY), St. Francis (PA), Mount St. Mary's

This leaves URI, George Washington, and Richmond to fend for themselves. I mean no offense to any of the three schools, but they just don't fit in either conference.

I'll still hang on to the dream of a Catholic conference that includes both the big schools from the Big East and the A10 as well as the little guys since that is best for Bonaventure. However, the realistic side of me would point towards something like what I listed above happening. And I think we'll put the over/under at 8 pm for when I start catching shit for this on the Bandwagon.

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Old 11-28-2012, 01:06 PM   #272 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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With basketball being the other money sport, I think a group of the left-overs from the Big East would be able to pick off the top of the A-10 to form a very strong basketball conference of schools that would be able to handle the increased travel costs for the non-money sports. A full conference schedule like we have this year would work for basketball. Regionally based divisions could be used to cut travel costs for the non-money sports.

The A-10 would be smart to start looking for the lesser teams of the Big East to join up and then try to attract the bigger teams once the conference falls apart officially. The problem you run into is that those lesser teams would be passing up short term big money since the conference is bundling the football and basketball television deals.

However, if we're being realistic, the smaller schools are going to get left behind since we don't fit the athletic profile of the Big East institutions. DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, and Villanova would poach Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier, Butler, VCU as mentioned and consider picking up a couple of other schools like Creighton and George Mason. As a Bonaventure fan, I'd like to think that we'd be included in the proposed "Catholic Conference," but big school athletic directors are more likely to look at potential money over religious affiliation, leaving the Bonnies, Duquesne, La Salle, St. Joe's, and Fordham to fend for themselves while non-Catholics are included.

So I think you'd see these as the two basketball conferences:
Big East (or something) Basketball: DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier, Butler, VCU, George Mason, Creighton

Catholic Conference: St. Bonaventure, La Salle, St. Joe's, Fordham, Duquesene, Manhattan, Siena, Canisius, Niagara, Loyola, Iona, St. Peters, Fairfield, Iona, Holy Cross, Sacred Heart, St. Francis (NY), St. Francis (PA), Mount St. Mary's (not sure if there would be a 20th team, given that Marist is no longer Catholic).

This leaves URI, George Washington, and Richmond to fend for themselves. I mean no offense to any of the three schools, but they just don't fit in either conference.

I'll still hang on to the dream of a Catholic conference that includes both the big schools from the Big East and the A10 as well as the little guys since that is best for Bonaventure. However, the realistic side of me would point towards something like what I listed above happening. And I think we'll put the over/under at 8 pm for when I start catching shit for this on the Bandwagon.
So did you purposely leave UMass out of everything, including the "this leaves" list?
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:22 PM   #273 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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So did you purposely leave UMass out of everything, including the "this leaves" list?
Mayhbe one of those two Ionas is supposed to be UMass.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:24 PM   #274 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

There are two very ironic scenarios that have occured with all of this shifting:

I have never been a fan of Uconn for many reasons including the fact that they have conveniently dodged playing Umass whenever Umass had any possible advantage in said match-up. To say they have been condescending and arrogant about it is probably kind. So for me to watch them get continually snubbed and flat out denied gives me much personal satisfaction. I firmly believe they have been the primary road block to any chance Umass had to joining the BE for a very long time, and especially after BC fled to the ACC. Personally, I like the A-10 and would prefer to stay right here for non-football, but with the millions of dollars on the line, I can see why Umass Administration would love to get a piece of that pie - at least until now. Uconn is in trouble in terms of conference affiliation as the BE football conference is not much better now than the MAC and none of the true BCS conferences give a schidt about Connecticut.

On a second note: Conference realignment occurs all the time, but the BE took it up a notch by raiding other conferences to create this 16 team super-conference. In essense, the BE started this whole mess in a pure greed power-play, and now they are the ones being blown into anonimity by it. It serves them right I guess!
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:28 PM   #275 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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So did you purposely leave UMass out of everything, including the "this leaves" list?
I'm assuming they'll find a football conference at some point. There are any number of suggestions that I'm sure others have posted for UMass to land somewhere playing football. Maybe with whatever is left over in the Big East, but they are far too East to stay in that conference. Someone is going to pick them up at some point.


And thanks to a10nick for pointing out the second Iona. I fixed it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:52 PM   #276 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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So I think you'd see these as the two basketball conferences:
Big East (or something) Basketball: DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier, Butler, VCU, George Mason, Creighton

Catholic Conference: St. Bonaventure, La Salle, St. Joe's, Fordham, Duquesene, Manhattan, Siena, Canisius, Niagara, Loyola, St. Peters, Fairfield, Iona, Holy Cross, Sacred Heart, St. Francis (NY), St. Francis (PA), Mount St. Mary's

This leaves URI, George Washington, and Richmond to fend for themselves. I mean no offense to any of the three schools, but they just don't fit in either conference.
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1. I can't see why we'd rather have either St. Francis over GW and Richmond just because neither of them is Catholic.

2. Also, I can't see the "bottom" A-10 teams being content to scoop up a bunch of MAAC teams. They have a conference. I'd rather go small with Bonnies, Duquesne, Fordham, LaSalle, St. Joes (who is unfortunate to be stuck behind Temple and Villanova), Richmond, GW and then we can poach a couple we like like Manhattan (?), Detroit (maybe?). If we are looking for fits, URI is a tough blend though I like them as a school.

3. I'm not convinced VCU would be the consensus pick over Richmond for the New Big East.

4. I'm not sure Holy Cross would make a move... they seem to like their conference.

5. F that Niagara and Canisius noise.

6. I wish Bonas was in a bigger market (we do get lumped into the Buffalo TV market by some) so that we were a player in all this, but for money reasons we will never be asked to the big boys table. I blame Nicholas Devereux.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:03 PM   #277 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

"Catholic Conference" is simply an easy term to describe most the schools who'd be involved; but it's merely an easy label.

What people suggest when they say that is an Eastern version of the WCC. But in the WCC, BYU obviously is Mormon, Pacific was affilated with the Methodists before and isn't any more; and Pepperdine... I don't know if Church of Christ a Catholic denomination or not (lil help anyone?)

If there's a conference built around the Big East Basketball Seven, being Catholic isn't going to put LaSalle, Fordham or Bonas ahead of Richmond, Butler or even VCU.

The money comes from ESPN, CBS, NBC and FOX, not from Eternal Word TV Network.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:08 PM   #278 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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With basketball being the other money sport, I think a group of the left-overs from the Big East would be able to pick off the top of the A-10 to form a very strong basketball conference of schools that would be able to handle the increased travel costs for the non-money sports. A full conference schedule like we have this year would work for basketball. Regionally based divisions could be used to cut travel costs for the non-money sports.

The A-10 would be smart to start looking for the lesser teams of the Big East to join up and then try to attract the bigger teams once the conference falls apart officially. The problem you run into is that those lesser teams would be passing up short term big money since the conference is bundling the football and basketball television deals.

However, if we're being realistic, the smaller schools are going to get left behind since we don't fit the athletic profile of the Big East institutions. DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, and Villanova would poach Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier, Butler, VCU as mentioned and consider picking up a couple of other schools like Creighton and George Mason. As a Bonaventure fan, I'd like to think that we'd be included in the proposed "Catholic Conference," but big school athletic directors are more likely to look at potential money over religious affiliation, leaving the Bonnies, Duquesne, La Salle, St. Joe's, and Fordham to fend for themselves while non-Catholics are included.

So I think you'd see these as the two basketball conferences:
Big East (or something) Basketball: DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier, Butler, VCU, George Mason, Creighton

Catholic Conference: St. Bonaventure, La Salle, St. Joe's, Fordham, Duquesene, Manhattan, Siena, Canisius, Niagara, Loyola, St. Peters, Fairfield, Iona, Holy Cross, Sacred Heart, St. Francis (NY), St. Francis (PA), Mount St. Mary's

This leaves URI, George Washington, and Richmond to fend for themselves. I mean no offense to any of the three schools, but they just don't fit in either conference.

I'll still hang on to the dream of a Catholic conference that includes both the big schools from the Big East and the A10 as well as the little guys since that is best for Bonaventure. However, the realistic side of me would point towards something like what I listed above happening. And I think we'll put the over/under at 8 pm for when I start catching shit for this on the Bandwagon.
I can see most of that first league, but the second one will never happen. If that first league came to pass, the schools that are left behind would keep the A10 name, and would likely stick together. They would then look to poach teams from other leagues. Siena, George Mason, and maybe a New England team if URI decides to stay. Cleveland St., and Detroit would also be decent additions, and I'm sure they would love to get out of the Horizon.

Duquesne
Bona
LaSalle
GW
St. Joe's
Fordham
URI
G. Mason
Siena
Richmond
New England school, or two.

If you want to go to 16, add Cleveland St. and Detroit, along with Niagara, and Canisius. Not a great league, but probably a 2 bid league, and much better than that awful collection you listed. Sacred Heart? St. Francis? GAG!

For that first league, drop George Mason. Georgetown would never let that happen. Since that would leave 6 eastern teams, Creighton gets dropped as well.

Last edited by duq81; 11-28-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:40 PM   #279 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Just a few thoughts ... The BE didn't start realignment though that's a thought that gets posted on here periodically. They've been an important part of it but the origins of realignment predate the BE's existence. This process really began in the early 1950s in the aftermath of Penn being the first university to have a football TV contract and the NCAA's subsequent acquistion of all college football TV rights a few years later.

Had the NCAA not held all football broadcast rights until the 1980s, the realignment process that we've seen would have begun earlier as the power teams of college football would have sought to monetize and control their value in the sports media market in the 1960s and 1970's.In fact, this is preceisely what began to happen in basketball where the NCAA didn't have the same control of broadcast rights. Anyone remember the Raycom syndicated broadcasts of ACC basketball on UHF stations in the 1970s or the ECAC Game of the week on Saturday afternoon with Marv Alberts and Bucky Waters? Big Five games on Channel 17? Also, the A10 has responded no differently than the BE has throughout this process. It's poached teams from conferences below it in the college sports hierarchy. They destroyed the ECC by taking Temple and St. Joes and more recently just took the CAA's most valuable basketball member along with the Horizon's most valuable member. The only ones with clean hands in this process are the Ivies becasue they alone can afford to be above the fray.

I still think a basketball-centric conference built around the legacy BE members is unlikely to happen soon. However, if there is a rapid realignment at the top of the food chain, the chances of it happening might increase. Thus far the changes at the top have been incremental and I think as long as that is the case the legacy BE members will do whatver they have to to remain tied to a football conference to maximize their media rights as best they can. They may reach a point of diminshing returns with that tactic, but we're not there yet.

Just an FYI, the BE isn't bundling the football and basketball contracts. They currently have separate contracts for the respective sports and will continue to do so with the contracts they are currently negotiating.

I really hope that there is a period of calm at the B1G / SEC level so that the BE and A10 can have some breathing space for a while. Though people on this baord have long wished for the BE's demise, I think that the fans of most A10 teams would likely end up very disappointed about the outcome for their favorite team should that day arrive.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:47 PM   #280 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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"Catholic Conference" is simply an easy term to describe most the schools who'd be involved; but it's merely an easy label.

What people suggest when they say that is an Eastern version of the WCC. But in the WCC, BYU obviously is Mormon, Pacific was affilated with the Methodists before and isn't any more; and Pepperdine... I don't know if Church of Christ a Catholic denomination or not (lil help anyone?)

If there's a conference built around the Big East Basketball Seven, being Catholic isn't going to put LaSalle, Fordham or Bonas ahead of Richmond, Butler or even VCU.

The money comes from ESPN, CBS, NBC and FOX, not from Eternal Word TV Network.
Pepperdine isn't Catholic. IIRC, the Churches of Christ is an offshoot of Presbyterianism. The rest of your post is right on the moeny, especially the last sentence.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:58 PM   #281 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment



Florida Atlantic and Middle Tennessee State are leaving the Sun Belt Conference for Conference USA, sources told ESPN.

FAU and Middle Tennessee are expected to join Conference USA in 2014. Conference USA added FAU and Middle Tennessee to replace Tulane and East Carolina, which announced Tuesday they were joining the Big East.

The addition of FAU and Middle Tennessee will give Conference USA 14 league members in 2014.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...ce-usa-sources
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:37 PM   #282 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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I'm assuming they'll find a football conference at some point. There are any number of suggestions that I'm sure others have posted for UMass to land somewhere playing football. Maybe with whatever is left over in the Big East, but they are far too East to stay in that conference. Someone is going to pick them up at some point.


And thanks to a10nick for pointing out the second Iona. I fixed it.
You will find on UMass forums the majority of fans are against a move to the Big East. Also on the before July 1 stuff, there is one huge wrong assumption. The 7 Catholic schools are not united against football.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:56 PM   #283 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I'd much rather Duquesne stay affiliated with the leftover A-10 schools than the join an all catholic league with St Francis (PA), Holy Cross and the rest.

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Old 11-28-2012, 08:59 PM   #284 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I am having just an absolute blast watching UC twist in the wind in this realignment armagedon. (armaggedon? armagedhon?)

They were of the group who hyped up the super conference BE, as if the rest of us didn't see the obvious implosion coming, especially with the random additions to boost the conference. Then add in that Cincinnati went quite awhile without an active AD, throw in their piss poor football attendance, then the factor of their terrible facilities (Nippert stadium holds about 35,000 and the Shoe is dated and falling apart) and you get this result.

Cincy actively BEGGED the ACC to let them join, and they were shot down. How does that look to the Big East? Well done UC, you just alienated the conference you are stuck in for years to come.

How does the Atlantic Ten look now? Stability huh?

Oh and Louisville to the ACC is brilliant. That basketball program should do really well in there.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:26 PM   #285 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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I am having just an absolute blast watching UC twist in the wind in this realignment armagedon. (armaggedon? armagedhon?)

They were of the group who hyped up the super conference BE, as if the rest of us didn't see the obvious implosion coming, especially with the random additions to boost the conference. Then add in that Cincinnati went quite awhile without an active AD, throw in their piss poor football attendance, then the factor of their terrible facilities (Nippert stadium holds about 35,000 and the Shoe is dated and falling apart) and you get this result.

Cincy actively BEGGED the ACC to let them join, and they were shot down. How does that look to the Big East? Well done UC, you just alienated the conference you are stuck in for years to come.

How does the Atlantic Ten look now? Stability huh?

Oh and Louisville to the ACC is brilliant. That basketball program should do really well in there.
I'm enjoying Cincy's return to the new Conference USA, but I'm enjoying the complete contempt for UConn more. There is no specific reason why I should dislike UConn, other than a general dislike for Jim Calhoun. Whatever, screw UC and UConn.
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