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Old 11-29-2012, 02:47 PM   #301 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by Bona Wolf for Pope View Post
....
Edit: Obviously using just the city limits numbers doesn't give the total picture.
understatement of the year.

Omaha doesn't come close to St. Louis, Pittsburg, or cincinnati and even Buffalo is far more densely populated. Omaha's area is more than twice that of any of the above and its metro population is less than half of all but Buffalo. Omaha is only 'big city' if you are living on a farm - which is most of the people nin Nebraska who don't live in Omaha.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:27 PM   #302 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by rusty X View Post
I am having a hard time believing that the Charlotte AD is happy to be thrown into that collection of mutts that now comprise CUSA. With the exception of Tulsa and Rice, I think the rest of those schools have open admissions, or whatever the politically correct term is.

I am sure that the Tulsa and Rice ADs are spending every waking hour trying to figure out how to get their schools out of there. Twenty years ago Rice was in a conference with Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, SMU, TCU, Houston, Baylor. Now they look at North Texas, FIU, FAU, La. Tech, UT-San Antonio, UTEP. How would you like to be the guy trying to sell football season tickets at Rice? Buy a six pack of Pepsi, get a free football ticket.
If we had football 20 years ago this wouldn't be an issue. We'd be in the Big East (not that that is all that great anymore either).

We hit the lottery when we successfully blackmailed our way into CUSA v1.0.

We're now going to have to build both a successful basketball and football program to advance again.

The new CUSA isn't devoid of basketball talent (UTEP just signed a class that might make even Xavier jealous). Charlotte, UAB, ODU, Tulsa, and UTEP all have a solid basketball pedigree historically. If WKU is thrown into the mix, you have another. It's not the A10, but it's not horrible either. I imagine it'll still be a top 10 RPI conference most seasons, especially with the CAA being gutted. I imagine it will be like the old CAA. Several years with 1 bid with the occasional special year with 3 with occasional 2 bid years in between those years.

I doubt we'll be seeing any top 15 conference opponents stepping into Halton in the future though.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:32 PM   #303 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by Palestra1 View Post
It's almost comical how closely the ACC is following the BE playbook right down to inviting ND to place their olympic sports in the conference and participate in their bowl rotation. The ACC at this point is not all that different than the BE circa 1999 including having SU, BC, VT, Pitt, and Miami as members. Their big vulnerability in this realingment madness (as was the BE's) is that none of their members have the same national appeal and status as Texas, Michigan or USC or the other giants of college football. They don't have one football member which is so popular nationally that it can carry the conference by drawing huge audiences even in down periods. The ACC's status as a power conference would be secured if ND would join as a full football member, but ND isn't going to do that until absolutely compelled to by forces greater than pleading from their fellow ACC members (just as was the case with the BE). The ACC may manage to avoid being picked apart or they could end up morphing into something like what was mentioned a few posts ago, who knows at this point. Regardless, the ACC is the old BE+ and the BE is the old CUSA+ at least for the time being.
The decline of Miami is killing the ACC. Miami doesn't have the long tradition of a Michigan or USC, but from the early 80's, until maybe 6-7 years ago, Miami's national profile, and poularity, was the equal of any school in America, save maybe ND. Florida St. hasn't done the league any favors either. If both schools were still playing at the level they did in the 80's and 90's, no one would be looking to leave the ACC.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:32 PM   #304 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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understatement of the year.

Omaha doesn't come close to St. Louis, Pittsburg, or cincinnati and even Buffalo is far more densely populated. Omaha's area is more than twice that of any of the above and its metro population is less than half of all but Buffalo. Omaha is only 'big city' if you are living on a farm - which is most of the people nin Nebraska who don't live in Omaha.
But I had to use the numbers that made my point.

I don't think Creighton will be making a move to an eastern conference anytime soon. Without football subsidizing them, it's too much of a financial strain on the non-revenue sports to take on all this travel.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:34 PM   #305 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by Bona Wolf for Pope View Post
Omaha: 408,000
St. Louis: 318,000
Pittsburgh: 305,000
Cincinnati: 297,000
Buffalo: 261,000
Richmond 205,000
Dayton 142,000
.
.
.
Olean 15,000

Edit: Obviously using just the city limits numbers doesn't give the total picture.
Cincinnati's MSA, which is more relevant than city-limit population, but not as relevant as Nielsen's market definition, stands at approx. 2.2 million. Pittsburgh is around 2.4 million. I have no idea on the others, but I would guess dayton in the 300k+ range.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:48 PM   #306 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Richmond is about 1.2 million if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:50 PM   #307 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Omaha is only 'big city' if you are living on a farm - which is most of the people nin Nebraska who don't live in Omaha.
I'm sorry, but this is about as uninformed as one can get. That is an east coast stereotype...and an incorrect one at that....

The Omaha metro area is right about 1 million people. Certainly not the size of east coast cities, but pretty good sized for the midwest. The Omaha TV market is ranked lower than it probably should be because Nielsen has Omaha and Lincoln as two separate markets, despite the fact it only takes about 35-40 minutes to get to Lincoln from Omaha (shorter than the average commute time in bigger cities).
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:59 PM   #308 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

As soon as the Big East stops getting raided it will be the ACC. Football is king and the ACC offers a very inferior product and contract compared to the Big Ten/Big12/SEC/Pac10. VTech/FSU/Clemson/UNC/Georgia Tech are all going to be prime targets to move. Having football first schools in a basketball first conference just doesn't work. It will ruin the Big East and ACC.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:10 PM   #309 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Cincinnati's MSA, which is more relevant than city-limit population, but not as relevant as Nielsen's market definition, stands at approx. 2.2 million. Pittsburgh is around 2.4 million. I have no idea on the others, but I would guess dayton in the 300k+ range.
Dayton and Omaha have about the same sized MSA, around 850K. Omaha has a much larger area, but most of it is really rural and unpopulated. If you throw in Springfield and Greenville, which were recently part of the Dayton MSA, Dayton is up over a million.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:12 PM   #310 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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The decline of Miami is killing the ACC. Miami doesn't have the long tradition of a Michigan or USC, but from the early 80's, until maybe 6-7 years ago, Miami's national profile, and poularity, was the equal of any school in America, save maybe ND. Florida St. hasn't done the league any favors either. If both schools were still playing at the level they did in the 80's and 90's, no one would be looking to leave the ACC.
I completely agree. Unfortunately for the ACC, Miami has reverted to its mean. Prior to the 1980s it was a generally competitive, though ocassionally awful football program. What's worse is that I don't think Miami will ever return to national championship caliber status. Regardless of whatever happens with the Nevin Shapiro scandal, I don't think the UM administration will be willing to do what it took to get to national prominence anytime soon, if ever. And as we've seen over the past decade, when Miami is average, the bandwagon empties quickly. I think Swofford and the ACC leaders have accepted this as well, which is why they were willing to make a deal with ND this year that they weren't willing to make when Miami and VT joined.

Also agree about FSU. Though they have far more loyal fans than Miami, they've seriously underperformed in recent years. Plus, they're still a relative Johnny-come-lately in the football hierarchy and they aren't even the most popular team in their home state.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:16 PM   #311 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by DoubleJayAlum View Post
I'm sorry, but this is about as uninformed as one can get. That is an east coast stereotype...and an incorrect one at that....

The Omaha metro area is right about 1 million people. Certainly not the size of east coast cities, but pretty good sized for the midwest. The Omaha TV market is ranked lower than it probably should be because Nielsen has Omaha and Lincoln as two separate markets, despite the fact it only takes about 35-40 minutes to get to Lincoln from Omaha (shorter than the average commute time in bigger cities).
Seriously dude, you need to get out and see the world. There is nothing that makes Omaha a "big city" except for the overall rural nature of Nebraska. Consider, for a moment, that metro Omaha contains nearly fifty percent of the population of Nebraska but less than a fortieth of the area. That's why you think it's a big city. But it's not. It's big area wise - 130 square miles. Compare that to say, Boston, which has about 600k people in 50 square miles. In fact, if you took 130 square miles around Boston then you'd get about 4 million people. Boston is not a particularly big "big city". Hell, the little town in MA where I grew up is 50% more densely populated than Omaha.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:04 PM   #312 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Dayton and Omaha have about the same sized MSA, around 850K. Omaha has a much larger area, but most of it is really rural and unpopulated. If you throw in Springfield and Greenville, which were recently part of the Dayton MSA, Dayton is up over a million.
Eaton didn't want to be included?
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:32 PM   #313 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Are we really discussing the population comparison of dayton and Omaha? Wow, sometimes threads take some weird turns.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:34 PM   #314 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Seriously dude, you need to get out and see the world. There is nothing that makes Omaha a "big city" except for the overall rural nature of Nebraska. Consider, for a moment, that metro Omaha contains nearly fifty percent of the population of Nebraska but less than a fortieth of the area. That's why you think it's a big city. But it's not. It's big area wise - 130 square miles. Compare that to say, Boston, which has about 600k people in 50 square miles. In fact, if you took 130 square miles around Boston then you'd get about 4 million people. Boston is not a particularly big "big city". Hell, the little town in MA where I grew up is 50% more densely populated than Omaha.
Omaha is what Providence would be if it were located in a large, mostly rural state. It's probably one of the better cities of it's size though, but places like Dayton, Providence, and Richmond, have the advantage of being fairly close to much larger cities.
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:53 PM   #315 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Are we really discussing the population comparison of dayton and Omaha?
It would appear so.


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Wow, sometimes threads take some weird turns.
Indeed.

How might More BCS realignment affect the Atlantic 10 schools?

See my next post.

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