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Old 11-18-2012, 09:39 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Duke-UNC suck in football. That's most of the answer right there. The money involved for football is just ridiculous (see BigTen network payouts). Maryland would be costing themselves big-time money not to take the invite.
I understand the rationale. It'll only be 5 to 10 years to make the $50 million back. Plus, all the millions to move their limited roster of olympic sports to the midwest midweek for conference clashes. UNC-Duke suck at football so does Maryland. They'll be even worse in the big 10.

Point is nobody who supports Maryland wants them to leave the ACC except the Under Armor CEO. They'd rather their basketball rivalries stay intact. The money is obvious. I get why that as the underlying impetus for this cosmic shift but long run is Maryland really going to get all that scrilla? I think they would have been better served staying in the ACC. Unless, as I'm starting to suspect they must know that FSU, Clemson, GA Tech or somebody is thinking Big 12 or elsewhere.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:21 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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It's all about money. Maryland is in some dire financial situations right now, and joining the Big Ten pretty much kisses them goodbye.

Personally, as a born and raised Marylander who has rooted for the Terps for all my life, I hate this. I don't care much for MD football (and really, not many people do). It's going to be really disappointing to not have two games against Duke every season. Plus, MD has rivalries in the ACC, dating back to the 50s. The closest "rivalry" in the Big Ten would be Penn St., and that is just because of geographic proximity.

I do believe that if MD goes, this may set off a wave of further conference realignment.
This is the opinion I think most Maryland fans and alumni share. Which is the point I was making elsewhere. Most of the other decisions have been driven by greed but usually, maybe with the exception of BC(??? and I don't know that), the fans are happy with the move too. Here if everybody is against it, is the money worth it?

It's not just greed at an institutional level its also a hubris, greed, wanna be big shot, mentality that corrupts the thinking of some boosters that think college sports programs are their pro teams.

At Richmond one rich booster, single-handed, is bringing in Lacrosse, which his son happens to play well, and kicking out soccer and mens track. (Genius thinking went into that considering the long term prospects of soccer in this country). Quite, similar to Under Armor Wannabe at Maryland driving the move to the Big 10.

Unless of course MD thinks (knows?) the ACC is already a fuse away from blowing up--though history will never allow us to know. Truth many of these moves are likely less about greed, and just driven by the fear of being left out and the people jumping ship every round are just the cowards flinching first and actually causing the havoc. Only a matter of time now that another round of panic has begun that will see some even dumber conference mates
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:36 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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This is the opinion I think most Maryland fans and alumni share. Which is the point I was making elsewhere. Most of the other decisions have been driven by greed but usually, maybe with the exception of BC(??? and I don't know that), the fans are happy with the move too. Here if everybody is against it, is the money worth it?

It's not just greed at an institutional level its also a hubris, greed, wanna be big shot, mentality that corrupts the thinking of some boosters that think college sports programs are their pro teams.

At Richmond one rich booster, single-handed, is bringing in Lacrosse, which his son happens to play well, and kicking out soccer and mens track. (Genius thinking went into that considering the long term prospects of soccer in this country). Quite, similar to Under Armor Wannabe at Maryland driving the move to the Big 10.

Unless of course MD thinks (knows?) the ACC is already a fuse away from blowing up--though history will never allow us to know. Truth many of these moves are likely less about greed, and just driven by the fear of being left out and the people jumping ship every round are just the cowards flinching first and actually causing the havoc. Only a matter of time now that another round of panic has begun that will see some even dumber conference mates
mateer, in my opinion, you nutted it right there.

I don't believe anyone who is deeply involved in realignment truly believes that things had settled down recently. Again, IMO, the Big4 will continue to move towards the 4x16 model, the ACC's recent moves notwithstanding (i.e. ND, Orange Bowl and $50 million exit fee). I tend to believe the likes of the B1G and SEC, in particular, look at them like they would look at someone putting up an un-mortared wall of cinderblock in front of their A1/M1 Abrams Tank.

More to the point, the B12 isn't finished filling out its vacancy. They could go after UL, but they'll still need from 1 to 3 others to get to 14. Even if all this actually is driving towards a 5x14 format, the ACC is easily becoming the BCS Club's least affluent member. If I'm an ACC member and I have a chance to jump to the B1G, well, good lord. Will the fans get over it? Do South Carolina fans still mourn leaving the ACC in 1971? The change will take place if the business reasons are valid; time will fix the rest of it.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:55 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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I understand the rationale. It'll only be 5 to 10 years to make the $50 million back. Plus, all the millions to move their limited roster of olympic sports to the midwest midweek for conference clashes. UNC-Duke suck at football so does Maryland. They'll be even worse in the big 10.

Point is nobody who supports Maryland wants them to leave the ACC except the Under Armor CEO. They'd rather their basketball rivalries stay intact. The money is obvious. I get why that as the underlying impetus for this cosmic shift but long run is Maryland really going to get all that scrilla? I think they would have been better served staying in the ACC. Unless, as I'm starting to suspect they must know that FSU, Clemson, GA Tech or somebody is thinking Big 12 or elsewhere.
I don't think it'll take 10 years to make back the money, 5 years is more likely unless the money changes significantly or they get a seriously reduced payout for the first 5 years (it's possible). Nor will it be tough to fund the olympic sports with the kind of money they'll pull in as a Big10 member, which has a more even distribution of money than the other conferences I believe. I feel for the student-athletes having to make those trips while still actually being students (as opposed to what's generally the option for the football/basketball teams).

I agree that greed is driving it. But the thinking is that new rivalries will eventually replace the old ones, and stability in the conference is a big deal. If the ACC goes the way of the Big East after FSU and Clemson leave for the SEC or Big 12 and possibly others leave too, that could mean a difference in revenue of $50 million dollars per year or more! That's a competitive advantage as long as the NCAA allows such disparities (and why wouldn't they as long as they get to keep raking the money in too). Fans won't be happy about it right now, but looking back in 10 years or so, they may feel very differently when the ACC is a shell of its former self.

Either way, football is really ruining the traditional rivalries of college basketball, as well as causing huge wastes of money when regional conferences get replaced. I do think it's only a matter of time before the University CEO's look at the waste in the olympic sports travel and replace traditional conferences for all sports with separate conferences for football/basketball (money-making) and olympic sports (local/regional).
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:59 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

The Big 12 has so much television money for football that they would take 2 schools at most. And they are a pretty tough basketball league, so they do not need to expand to help them out on that front.

They have previously said that they are not much interested in expansion, but are not totally closed to the idea. Florida State and Clemson are the 2 schools that they seemed to have any interest in. BYU was discussed but ruled out because they have too many restrictions about playing on Sundays. If the Big 12 expands, they will not go to 14.

East Carolina has hired Chuck Neinas, the former commissioner who saved the Big 12 as a consultant to get them into the Big East. He also was hired by Memphis and got them into the Big East. What the hell the Big 10 sees in Rutgers is beyond me, but if they go, the Big East needs an all sports member. I still think that Tulsa or Tulane best fits the Big East profile, but ECU might have a leg up on everyone.

There is Zero chance that UL or UC get into the Big 12. They do not fit the academic profile of the league, nor do they have much buzz to add anything.

If Clemson and Florida State leave, the ACC as far as football is concerned is going to be pretty bad, not any better than the Big East or CUSA.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:35 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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The Big 12 has so much television money for football that they would take 2 schools at most. And they are a pretty tough basketball league, so they do not need to expand to help them out on that front.

They have previously said that they are not much interested in expansion, but are not totally closed to the idea. Florida State and Clemson are the 2 schools that they seemed to have any interest in. BYU was discussed but ruled out because they have too many restrictions about playing on Sundays. If the Big 12 expands, they will not go to 14.

East Carolina has hired Chuck Neinas, the former commissioner who saved the Big 12 as a consultant to get them into the Big East. He also was hired by Memphis and got them into the Big East. What the hell the Big 10 sees in Rutgers is beyond me, but if they go, the Big East needs an all sports member. I still think that Tulsa or Tulane best fits the Big East profile, but ECU might have a leg up on everyone.

There is Zero chance that UL or UC get into the Big 12. They do not fit the academic profile of the league, nor do they have much buzz to add anything.

If Clemson and Florida State leave, the ACC as far as football is concerned is going to be pretty bad, not any better than the Big East or CUSA.
A very specific point in all this: I have no affiliation with UL, but I really feel badly for them given the investments they've made in their athletic facilities and programs. It just goes to show that it just isn't all about the sports with the Presidents; academics actually still matter in these matters having to do with collegiate affiliations. Imagine that.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:48 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I would be shocked if the the B12 stuck at 10 schools for very long. If the Big 10 moves to 14 by adding Rutgers & Maryland, its safe to assume at a minimum that the ACC would add a school to get back to 14 in football. That would make the SEC, B10 & ACC all at 14, the P12 at 12 and the B12 at 10. For a conference that was almost dead a little over a year ago, they can't fell all that stable that the SEC, B10 or P12 wouldn't come knocking in an attempt to get to 14 (P12) or 16 teams. They need to make a move for nothing else but to stabilize themselves over the ACC for the long run. FSU makes a lot of sense in that case and they're going to need at least 1 more travel partner for them, ideally 2 more, 1 that matches up well w/ FSU (Clemson) and one that matches up well w/ WVU (Louisville). That would put them at 14 and give them a strong case to expand either West or East if they got go to 16.

File under FWIW, rumore on an Ohio State board that GTech is looking to make a move to get in the B10, and that Carolina & Virginia have been rumered as potential suiters in the "near" term.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:02 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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I think UMass will probably be the first selection to fill a hole or one of the top ones. Interesting decision for them... Pretty much the same decision we faced a year ago.
UMass doesn't have its crap together well enough to get that invitation. We needed to make our FBS move in the mid-2000s to position ourselves to be a factor in realignment today. The western Big East schools will want a western team, the ex-CUSAs will want one of their southern CUSA buddies, the Catholics don't have any affinity for us, and UConn would cut off its own arm to prevent UMass from getting a leg up. We'd have to be a much, much better candidate than any other option out there to even get a phone call from the BE, and we're not.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:32 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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UMass doesn't have its crap together well enough to get that invitation. We needed to make our FBS move in the mid-2000s to position ourselves to be a factor in realignment today. The western Big East schools will want a western team, the ex-CUSAs will want one of their southern CUSA buddies, the Catholics don't have any affinity for us, and UConn would cut off its own arm to prevent UMass from getting a leg up. We'd have to be a much, much better candidate than any other option out there to even get a phone call from the BE, and we're not.
If we made our move back then we'd probably still have Don Brown as our coach and have way better recruits for the first year in transition (his last couple of seasons there we were very consistently a top 10 FCS program, which could have easily gotten us a bit more than 1 accidental win in the first season).

So yeah, we'd probably be in a much better place than we are now in terms of be poached...or even just looked at further than "Maybe Mass...uh..no."
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:13 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I live in Maryland and have several friends who are UMD alums, and they are universally against this move. Many say that whatever money they gain will be lost by the loss of rivalries as well as increased travel.

As far as the Big East, it will survive, but in name only once the music stops playing. The ACC will likely take UConn as a replacement, and it's inevitable that Louisville goes elsewhere at some point too.

As far as the BE basketball schools go, it still doesn't make sense for them to split off. It seems obvious that the A-10 is the top non-football conference in the country. And the recent TV contract received isn't even close to what the Big East is going to receive.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:25 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

TreachX, I live in MD too (northwest Baltimore Co.) and am yet to hear from any UMD alum who is in favor of the move other than Kevin Plank. His money talks unfortunately as I think this move is a travesty.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:32 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment


Maryland to the Big Ten:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-...59--ncaab.html








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Old 11-19-2012, 09:19 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

If I recall, the Big 10 only is interested in major research universities, correct? With that said, the State University of NJ (Rutgers) would fit the bill and its proximity to NYC and Philly helps at first glance, though truly no one in NYC cares about local college football. Notre Dame is probably the most popular team in NYC, as there are a lot of Irish folks here.

How this might shake out for the ACC will be interesting. Just six months ago, they seemed to have won with their additions and the increased exit fee. Now? Not so much, particularly if FSU and Clemson want to leave and GTech and UVa (similar school profiles) are looking around.

Will be interesting to see how Duke and (particularly) Wake Forest end up with all this. Duke basketball is obviously a powerful commodity. Their football team is awful. Wake has a poor football history and recent struggles in hoops don't help.

Will UNC make a move without Duke? What if the SEC offered UNC?
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:23 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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TreachX, I live in MD too (northwest Baltimore Co.) and am yet to hear from any UMD alum who is in favor of the move other than Kevin Plank. His money talks unfortunately as I think this move is a travesty.
Why is the move a travesty? Maryland will almost be doubling the payout they get from their conference. Some would call that being fiscally smart.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:49 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I hope UMass would not consider a move to the Big East. The Big East is dying. UMass is better off in the A10/MAC than in the Big East.
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