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Old 12-04-2012, 04:56 AM   #436 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by jpschmack View Post
There's nothing to leak. Everyone knows that if the BE split, any A-10 school would love to join up.
Xavier and Dayton and Duquesne probably have called the Big East Seven and said "If you can force football out, we'd love to join" and the Big East Basketball Schools are saying "Yeah, we know. You've been telling us this since 1985."
Things have changed drastically since 1985. If the BE BBall schools don't realize this, they'll be left in the dust. There's only a few teams that have individual cache apart from the BE brand and even they are at risk of sinking to irrelevance. I'm sure teams in the 50's and 60's never thought the power structure would change in college basketball. But there's plenty of teams with far more success and profile from those days who are nowhere near the top now.

The point though isn't that they really need to have substantive plans to do anything. They just leak the ideas of those conversations for leverage in conference discussions about changes to be made. The "Catholic league" probably gets so much attention partly for this reason, not because it's about to happen.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:46 AM   #437 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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I'm sure teams in the 50's and 60's never thought the power structure would change in college basketball.

There's plenty of teams with far more success and profile from those days who are nowhere near the top now.
The Dayton Flyers would be one of those teams:


FLYERS CONCLUDE EXHIBITION ACTION BY HOSTING WALSH (Dayton Flyers - October 31, 2012)

DID YOU KNOW?

UD won more games than any other school in both the 1950's and 1960's.

UD won 435 games between 1950 and 1969 and ranks among the top teams of the 1950s and 1960s in Division I history.

The Flyers’ .763 (228-71) winning percentage in the 1950s ranks fifth in the decade.

Their .729 (207-77) winning percentage ranks eighth in the 1960s.


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Old 12-04-2012, 07:36 AM   #438 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I agree the new tv contract is the elephant in the room for the BE bb onlies. Even if their share were to drop from the current 1.56M they're getting, I don't believe it would get anywhere near what the new A-10 contract is paying. I am sure the entire BE Conference would like the new tv contract finalized it may be of greater importance to the bb onlies to have it resolved while they hold the voting majority. As others have mentioned, going forward the onlies are most likely to see a drop in attendance. While UCF, SMU and Houston MAY become very good programs they are not on the same plane as the programs that are leaving. That is certainly going to have an adverse economic impact on those onlies who rent off campus arenas. Seton Hall plays its home games in the state of the art arena called the Rock. I may be wrong but I believe their fee is at least 75K everytime the Rock opens its doors for a SHU game. Couple that with the fact that a curtain is drawn around most if not all of the upper deck even for games against Louisville, Syracuse and UCONN, and its apparent they can ill afford much if any drop in revenues be it from tv monies or ticket sales.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:10 AM   #439 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Yep, there's a lot of priests saying, "Oh, S**t!"
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:57 AM   #440 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Simple question: how does the BE get to a television deal at this time, given the amount of commotion out there presently?
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:42 AM   #441 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Simple question: how does the BE get to a television deal at this time, given the amount of commotion out there presently?
That is one reason of many that ESPN let the BE walk after the exclusive rights period expired...
You can conclude that ESPN is probably not going to be there for the BE, so what channel? Fox? NBC?

A lot less money is coming to those bball schools unless they are able to snag a good football school and that doesnt look to be happening.. Only the other way around..

Someone posted a great financially detailed breakdown of the projected finances coming to those basketball schools. In conclusion, it doesn't look good for either scenario the create their own conference or stay under the BE umbrella. Lucky to get more than $500k per basketball, probably less.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #442 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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I agree the new tv contract is the elephant in the room for the BE bb onlies.
Agreed, I don't see anything happening regarding the Big East breaking up until new contract terms are negotiated.


The other key is the ACC's lawsuit against Maryland. If Maryland is successful, Florida St, Clemson and perhaps Georgia Tech are out the door.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:23 AM   #443 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Agreed, I don't see anything happening regarding the Big East breaking up until new contract terms are negotiated.


The other key is the ACC's lawsuit against Maryland. If Maryland is successful, Florida St, Clemson and perhaps Georgia Tech are out the door.
I don't think it is a matter of "if" when it comes to UM and the ACC exit fee. They're going to get it knocked down materially. The twitter world is firing back up again about FSU being close to leaving to the B12. I live in NE FL. The FSU fans that I know, some of them being influential alumni, have had it with the growing discrepancy that exists between Gainesville and Tallahassee. They want out, and they want out now, especially after the debacle in which they just participated in Charlotte.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:23 PM   #444 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by antboy View Post
Things have changed drastically since 1985. If the BE BBall schools don't realize this, they'll be left in the dust. There's only a few teams that have individual cache apart from the BE brand and even they are at risk of sinking to irrelevance. I'm sure teams in the 50's and 60's never thought the power structure would change in college basketball. But there's plenty of teams with far more success and profile from those days who are nowhere near the top now.

The point though isn't that they really need to have substantive plans to do anything. They just leak the ideas of those conversations for leverage in conference discussions about changes to be made. The "Catholic league" probably gets so much attention partly for this reason, not because it's about to happen.
Things have changed, but the status for them remains "the same." They are powerless as everything unfolds around them because they don't have football (just like us).

There's no leverage to be gained via leaks. Everything they could say is basically a "well, duh" statement.

They want to be in the most-high profile conference they can possibly be in (that means, a conference with football).
They want to have as much basketball-football balance as possible: Not be just along for the ride and totally at football's mercy; but in a mutually beneficial partnership.

What are they going to do, leak that they talk with Xavier, or Dayton or Saint Louis about adding another non-football school? How does that give them any leverage? Everyone knows Cincy would oppose Xavier or Dayton; they already have the Cincinnati market from the Bearcats; and it's not going to make UC look harder for a new conference then they already are.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:37 PM   #445 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Also, in more realignment news:

Reports are that the MAAC is in talks with Monmouth and Quinnipiac (both of the NEC) to invite them.
MAAC meetings and expected vote is December 14.

The MAAC is losing Loyola MD to the Patriot, so they'd be down to nine members Monmouth (? odd pick) and Quinnipiac (very smart pick) would make 11 teams.

I don't see why they wouldn't have gone with Quinnipiac, Stony Brook and other for 12. Then again, I'm not sure why the CAA didn't add Stony Brook as an all-sports member.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:41 PM   #446 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by jpschmack View Post
Things have changed, but the status for them remains "the same." They are powerless as everything unfolds around them because they don't have football (just like us).

There's no leverage to be gained via leaks. Everything they could say is basically a "well, duh" statement.

They want to be in the most-high profile conference they can possibly be in (that means, a conference with football).
They want to have as much basketball-football balance as possible: Not be just along for the ride and totally at football's mercy; but in a mutually beneficial partnership.

What are they going to do, leak that they talk with Xavier, or Dayton or Saint Louis about adding another non-football school? How does that give them any leverage? Everyone knows Cincy would oppose Xavier or Dayton; they already have the Cincinnati market from the Bearcats; and it's not going to make UC look harder for a new conference then they already are.
I meant leaks from Xavier, Dayton, SLU, etc., to pressure other A10 members to agree to certain conference changes (like benchmark investment figures, scheduling decisions, uneven t.v. deals or other things they may prefer). Even if the BE continues to spiral the drain, that doesn't mean the A10 would just be inviting the schools it wants to in. A power play could easily develop in which some BE Bball only remnants combine with A10 power players to avoid having to include teams they'd rather not share a conference with (e.g. Villanova and the other Philly schools). This should make some A10 programs that would not be included in this reorganization pretty nervous, and might soften up the resistance to certain changes.

I was mainly responding to the talk above about the A10 inviting BE members in rather than the other way around. I could easily see this other scenario, and I could foresee there being an advantage to having the idea out in the media about it. Maybe it wouldn't matter, but the landscape has changed so drastically recently that I think reorganizations like this have more potential to occur than they did before.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #447 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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I don't see why they wouldn't have gone with Quinnipiac, Stony Brook and other for 12. Then again, I'm not sure why the CAA didn't add Stony Brook as an all-sports member.
I would think Stony Brook is looking for a better football option. Also, the MAAC is mostly smaller catholic schools...the other SBU isn't a great fit there (since the MAAC has the luxury of still looking at geographic and academic fits). Monmouth works pretty well.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:28 PM   #448 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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I would think Stony Brook is looking for a better football option. Also, the MAAC is mostly smaller catholic schools...the other SBU isn't a great fit there (since the MAAC has the luxury of still looking at geographic and academic fits). Monmouth works pretty well.
That's true.

Stony Brook being public would be a factor.
But given the fluid nature of what's going on, I don't see why you wouldn't invite them. knowing that they improve the quality of all sports for your league.

I see Stony Brook to the MAAC like BYU moving to the WCC.

The WCC was originally hesitant because BYU is huge compared to their other schools; But they had research and data showing a decade of results and showed that: Yes, BYU is probably going to win the commission's cup because they are accross the board good in all sports; but they are NOT going to be across the board DOMINANT. They're going to be top four in each sport, but each sport has schools that are peers with BYU.

If Stony Brook joined the MAAC and competed in everything, but didn't dominate all the sports (their WBB team was pretty bad last year), you get the advantages of them winning and being good. For example, their College World Series appearance last season.

If Stony Brook joined the MAAC and simply crushed EVERYONE in EVERYTHING... Then they're probably getting invited to join the CAA within a few years. As a share-everything type of league, bringing the best basketball school you can get to try and get an at-large again is the smartest move you can make.

Plus, Quinnipiac, Stony Brook and Monmouth would really up the game of the rest of the MAAC as all three have new, $50 million+ basketball arenas.


Quinnipiac and Stony Brook "get it" (Monmouth might too). QU's private goal since about 2004 has been to build athletics and get into the Atlantic 10. Publically, they admitted “We do have high aspirations" but didn't name conferences.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:42 PM   #449 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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That's true.

Stony Brook being public would be a factor.
But given the fluid nature of what's going on, I don't see why you wouldn't invite them. knowing that they improve the quality of all sports for your league.

I see Stony Brook to the MAAC like BYU moving to the WCC.

The WCC was originally hesitant because BYU is huge compared to their other schools; But they had research and data showing a decade of results and showed that: Yes, BYU is probably going to win the commission's cup because they are accross the board good in all sports; but they are NOT going to be across the board DOMINANT. They're going to be top four in each sport, but each sport has schools that are peers with BYU.

If Stony Brook joined the MAAC and competed in everything, but didn't dominate all the sports (their WBB team was pretty bad last year), you get the advantages of them winning and being good. For example, their College World Series appearance last season.

If Stony Brook joined the MAAC and simply crushed EVERYONE in EVERYTHING... Then they're probably getting invited to join the CAA within a few years. As a share-everything type of league, bringing the best basketball school you can get to try and get an at-large again is the smartest move you can make.

Plus, Quinnipiac, Stony Brook and Monmouth would really up the game of the rest of the MAAC as all three have new, $50 million+ basketball arenas.


Quinnipiac and Stony Brook "get it" (Monmouth might too). QU's private goal since about 2004 has been to build athletics and get into the Atlantic 10. Publically, they admitted “We do have high aspirations" but didn't name conferences.
That's all well and good, but how do you know Stony Brook wanted in? With everything moving around, Stony Brook may figure they can just wait for the CAA (or CUSA in a year or two).

As long as Bonaventure doesn't end up in the MAAC, I'm all good.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:54 PM   #450 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

If any Big East school wants to join the best college basketball-driven conference in the country - on the planet - they should be made to grovel first.
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