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Old 12-11-2012, 07:55 AM   #481 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Can Temple vote on matters now? They apparently gained their vote in BE matters this year.

Do the hoops schools have enough votes for the majority. Yes, I haven't kept track, and don't have the time now to look it up.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:58 AM   #482 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

URI and Prov are interchangable probably in most people eyes. In the State, Prov has the larger following since they are based in providence instead of south county (make all your small state jokes here please!). Both bring little to the table as an add on for TV eyes. Providence will get the call for a new conference instead of URI based on existing relationships with the BE schools. the only exception is if the schools thought that providence, and it's domination of the BE office was the cause of the BE mistakes and they want them exiled.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:59 AM   #483 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by xudash View Post
Can Temple vote on matters now? They apparently gained their vote in BE matters this year.

Do the hoops schools have enough votes for the majority. Yes, I haven't kept track, and don't have the time now to look it up.
xudash, you are correct that Temple has a vote via football.. But it doesn't seem to have a full member vote which is why the basketball schools would have to act fast. Once, Temple gets that full member vote, the basketball voting advantage is gone.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:59 AM   #484 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by xudash View Post
Can Temple vote on matters now? They apparently gained their vote in BE matters this year.

Do the hoops schools have enough votes for the majority. Yes, I haven't kept track, and don't have the time now to look it up.
Yeah, I posted this on XH.

From what I've gathered on various message board (*so take that for what it's worth), you would need a 2/3 majority in order to dissolve the football side of the conference.

For: Providence, Gtown, Nova, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Depaul, Marquette
Against: UConn, USF, UC, (Temple)

If Temple doesn't have votes, it's 70% FOR, which would mean they could dissolve. But, assuming those 4 all vote against and if Temple does have a vote, it's only 63%, which would not allow the basketball schools to disband football.

It really all depends on who you trust, in regards to if Temple has full voting powers or only football voting powers.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:00 AM   #485 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

People really aren't naive enough to the think having a "Catholic" charter has anything to do with this, right?

The moves that are to be made are to be made to insure the viability of the various non-football universities most important revenue sport. That means basketball cache. (having a media market doesn't hurt, either) Its as simple as that. The teams that will be a direct reflection on the names (reputation) of the other member schools.

Its always this. Its the money. It will be tomorrow too.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:04 AM   #486 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by xudash View Post
Can Temple vote on matters now? They apparently gained their vote in BE matters this year.

Do the hoops schools have enough votes for the majority. Yes, I haven't kept track, and don't have the time now to look it up.
Espn's Andy Katz had the following regarding this matter on his twitter account:

Temple AD Bill Bradshaw told me contract with Big East states that Temple became full voting member on July 1, 2012.


That may mean that in the CURRENT Big East membership, the Catholic's do not have the necessary votes to dissolve the league. However, with the league membership in constant flux, that could quickly change if a UConn or Cincinatti were to officialy announce their intent to leave.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:06 AM   #487 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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People really aren't naive enough to the think having a "Catholic" charter has anything to do with this, right?

The moves that are to be made are to be made to insure the viability of the various non-football universities most important revenue sport. That means basketball cache. (having a media market doesn't hurt, either) Its as simple as that. The teams that will be a direct reflection on the names (reputation) of the other member schools.

Its always this. Its the money. It will be tomorrow too.
This. They should just invite ESPN, NBC and CBS to these meetings and say "whaddya want". We'll put it together for TV.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:06 AM   #488 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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You know this how? UD sources?
A combination of a source and common sense. There should be no doubt those schools would jump today if given an invite. At bare minimum the TV money would be slightly higher overall, but divided between fewer schools. And NCAA tourney money would be similar or larger and divided between fewer schools as well. Keep in mind, part of the reason the A10 is well regarded is projecting Xavier, SLU, Butler, SJU, and Dayton to be in and around the NCAA tourney for years to come. These programs will be 20+ win money makers at worst. The A10 has a major gap in funding levels, and we all know UMass is gone the minute they get a viable football offer. Could be next year, could be 5 years, but it's going to happen. They certainly didn't bump up to FBS to stay in the MAC for a decade.

It becomes murky if you project that decision being made 4 years from now. I think the schools would ultimately make the jump, but it would be far from a given.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:07 AM   #489 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...ege-basketball

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspor...ll-conference/
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:12 AM   #490 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Of the A10 catholics, I could see Xavier, Dayton, and SLU being attractive to a smaller basketball focused B.E. Otherwise, the "new" conference would likely pick the best private schools that would fill up their markets. I think Butler would be a no brainer. That leaves a western division of 6 schools, Marquette, Depaul, Xavier, Dayton, Butler and SLU. With 5 current eastern schools, Georgetown, Villanova, SHU, SJU and Providence, there is room for one more out east. Nova would likely block St. Joe's. St. Bona's is unfortunately too small and too far from anything. Dusquesne might be a good option, but their product has been fairly poor and their arena is substandard. URI is public and would be blocked by PC. UMass has FBS football. Fordham and Lasalle are not in the picture. GWU is probably too large and would likely be blocked by Georgetown. That leaves VCU and Richmond. Both have great facilities. VCU has been the stronger program as of late, but Richmond is both private and similar in size and make up to the other schools in the conference, while having recent and somewhat sustained basketball success. I would think Richmond would take the last eastern slot, if the A10 is where all the teams are taken from.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:17 AM   #491 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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You do know that Nova has an RPI of 163, St Joes somewhere around 80 and La Salle in the 30s. Nova wasn't .500 and didn't even get into the NIT. They are projected not to do that this year either. So you picked 2 schools out of 7 that are worth anything... I am sorry you can't cherry pick.. The 5 other schools would be in the bottom of the A-10 that doesn't help value..
Also while both teams are not good next year.. URI should be very strong next year with the transfers and freshman coming in.. So URI over Providence in the future as the same with St Joes and La Salle over Nova in the near future
Yeah, I realize nova is down right now, but its not about "right now" its about the future and who you can resonably project to remain strong moving forward. Saint Joes should remain solid as long as Phil is there and I see no reason why he would move along at this point, certainly he got the big money offers in the past. For both the athletic departmen and the president's department, its about eyeballs. Even in a down year, Nova generates more attention than Lasalle. That's good for TV revenue, that good for presidents hoping to attract HS students from the greater Philly area that might otherwise not pay attention to their school. Men's BBall is the greatest advertising pitch every school in the A-10 has you want it exposed to as many people as possible.

I didn't cherry pick anyone, just looked at the schools that matched up geographically and asked which schools generate the most interest, which schools are most likely to be top tier programs 10-20-30 years down the road. TV execs are going to tell you certain markets are worth X dollars. Obviously there's a difference in that market if you have more than 1 team competting for attention. For all of X's success, UC still carries the market more than Xavier does. Its no different, if given the option of Saint Johns or Fordham, you're going to take Saint Johns. If any A-10 school were to depart, you don't have the option of telling Saint Johns to take a hike, you either join them or not.

I like what Hurley is doing at Rhody, and I'm not quite sure how that market breaks down for attention, in either case its not about next year or 2 years from now, its about the long term, who can you count on in 10-20 years to be committed to financially to BBall. Given their relatively new arena, I have no reason to question Rhody's commitment to hoops.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:31 AM   #492 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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A combination of a source and common sense. There should be no doubt those schools would jump today if given an invite. At bare minimum the TV money would be slightly higher overall, but divided between fewer schools. And NCAA tourney money would be similar or larger and divided between fewer schools as well. Keep in mind, part of the reason the A10 is well regarded is projecting Xavier, SLU, Butler, SJU, and Dayton to be in and around the NCAA tourney for years to come. The A10 has a major gap in funding levels, and we all know UMass is gone the minute they get a viable football offer. Could be next year, could be 5 years, but it's going to happen.

It becomes murky if you project into the future. I think the schools would ultimately make the jump, but it would be far from a given.
Common Sense would say it would not be a resounding yes. Why? Because of the reason you contradict yourself with, you make the decisions based on the future. That future is very murky..

You take the best 5 mix that you can get from the A-10 and combine it with the "BE7" and you get the existing A-10. You saying that A-10 would be crap without whatever 5 schools would leave well, so would the BE7 if they went by themselves. Out of that group of 7, there are only 2 schools worth a damn.

I can not disagree with you that prize money of 5-6 bids split up between 14 teams as opposed to 12 teams would generate more money for the 12 teams, I mean that is basic math but what would the difference be... maybe $5-10k per school? $200k per bid guaranteed would only net a school in the 12 team conference about $3k more than the 14 team conference per bid. In the end, the bid difference isn't going to be that large.

Neither would the TV deal, but that has been discussed and concluded very well by xudash in previous posts and threads..
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:34 AM   #493 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Dana O'Neill gets the nuts and bolts of the issue, but doesn't take the next logical step. If the A10 will get around $350,000 per school, that's around $5 million per year in total for a league with several schools national TV wants no part of. A 12 team league with 12 schools national TV outlets will deal with could easily get $10 million per year, I would think. In a 12 team league, that's nearly $850k per school. With Cincy and UConn begging to get out, and Boise/SDSU willing to leave at a moment's notice, what about the next TV deal?

That's just throwing numbers out. I'm sure the schools have a better idea what they could get. But the fact they are now meeting about the future means the new Big East TV deal is getting very close to the line where football isn't adding revenue to the basktball schools.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:53 AM   #494 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by A10BBall View Post
Common Sense would say it would not be a resounding yes. Why? Because of the reason you contradict yourself with, you make the decisions based on the future. That future is very murky..

You take the best 5 mix that you can get from the A-10 and combine it with the "BE7" and you get the existing A-10. You saying that A-10 would be crap without whatever 5 schools would leave well, so would the BE7 if they went by themselves. Out of that group of 7, there are only 2 schools worth a damn.

I can not disagree with you that prize money of 5-6 bids split up between 14 teams as opposed to 12 teams would generate more money for the 12 teams, I mean that is basic math but what would the difference be... maybe $5-10k per school? $200k per bid guaranteed would only net a school in the 12 team conference about $3k more than the 14 team conference per bid. In the end, the bid difference isn't going to be that large.

Neither would the TV deal, but that has been discussed and concluded very well by xudash in previous posts and threads..
I think just about everyone would trust St John's, DePaul, Providence, Nova, and Seton Hall to be stronger in the future than LaSalle, Fordham, Duquesne, and St Bona, that's for sure. The only A10 school I mentioned I feel good about going forward is St Bona. They're the only school with success in the modern A10.

The idea that the BE7 just fall apart without football money is absurd. In fact, before they had to compete with football money schools, Seton Hall, DePaul, and St John's were among the best programs in America. The 1985 Final Four had Georgetown, Villanova, and St Johns. Seton Hall nearly won a title in the late 1980s. DePaul was consistently in the top 10 for many years. Will those days ever return? Nope. But I could make an argument that BE football damaged those programs far more than breaking from BE football ever could. Those schools will find ways to compete and succeed because that's what they've been doing for the vast majority of their basketball history. Same goes for Dayton, Xavier, St Joe, SLU, and Butler.

But, the reason the A10's future is murky is the added TV revenue. There is a chance schools like Duquesne, Fordham, and LaSalle use it to invest and become consistently strong programs. We all expect VCU and Richmond to become even stronger, and there is a great chance Rhody and St Bona do the same.

Like I said, right now, the top money A10 schools would leave with an invite. We'll see how the A10 schools with smaller bank accounts respond to having more cash. If they do invest and strengthen, that would increase the chances of the A10 staying together for decades. If that money is simply used to lessen institutional support of the athletic programs and actual budgets stay the same, well...
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:02 AM   #495 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

If Duquesne was in this fantasy conference they would be using Consol Energy Center and have the best arena in the league. It is already the host of 5 games a year and closer to some dorms than the AJ Palumbo Center.

St. Bonaventure is not in any better postion than Duquesne.

I think it has to come down to whether the top A10 teams think there will be a big enough difference in money and quality of product between the new bball conference and the A10. It looks like a lateral move or slight improvement to me. The bball schools possibly leaving the big east are not big state schools with tons of alumni and endownments. They are teams that have lived off BCS money and will likely fall to the level of the similarlly located A10 teams or worse.

Don't forget that the A10 now holds the bargaining chips. The A10 is a nationally known brand in basketball that has been a multi-bid conference for years. Does Xavier think they will do any better in a different conference?! There is no evidence to support that. These left out big east basketball schools have no brand, will likely not get to use the big east name, and are going to have to go around begging. Their only previous bargaining chip and saving grace was their association with football money. They won't have that and A10 schools would be stupid to leave a good thing for a very similar conference full of huge risks.

No I dont think everyone would trust that the now naked Big East basketball schools will be any better than A10 schools. Big east is turning into a running joke.

In a perfect world, Umass would leave for football gluttony and the 7 BE schools would join the A10 and create a 2 divison A10 with 20 teams total. Just call it the A20.

http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/201...expanded-a-10/
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