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Old 12-13-2012, 10:10 AM   #796 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

From what I'm hearing, and it's already been said in this thread numerous times, it just comes down to how many teams this new conference wants.

From everything I've read, Xavier is all but a lock with Butler not far behind. A lot of people are reporting 10 to be the magic number. That leaves a battle between SLU and Dayton, which is very interesting. If it gets to 12 that slides SLU and Dayton in and a need for a 12th team. VCU is a great option but I just cannot fathom them taking just 1 public school out of 12, just not worth it. Even though the geographic may not be perfect I would have to think Creighton would be the 12th team. Obviously there have been VERY brief mentions of Gonzaga and St. Mary's and obviously that throws a loop into everything.

Personally, I am in favor of a 10 team league for scheduling purposes and I really don't have an opinion on either SLU or Dayton. Obviously I would love to bring Dayton along, continue the rivalry etc. but I won't lie, if they get left out I will enjoy a few posters/fans getting a dose of reality.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:15 AM   #797 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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MudFlap;7005975]If they go National, Gonzaga and St. Mary's look good to jump in.
Gonzaga, yes. I doubt St. Mary's would get anything more than a quick discussion and resounding no.

But a league without football isn't likely to go national. The only chance Gonzaga would have is a basketball only league. Everything that's been reported is an all-sports league. Gonzaga isn't getting an invite to that.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:15 AM   #798 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by Muddy Waters View Post

Code:
Rk. University   Attendance

13. Marquette    15,138
28. Dayton       12,154
35. Georgetown   11,283
39. Xavier       10,155
44. Villanova     8,923
54. St. John's    8,428
63. Providence    7,883
66. Saint Louis   7,757
67. DePaul        7,740
70. VCU           7,622
76. Seton Hall    6,941
78. Butler        6,599
[/indent]
As previously posted, I would not consider VCU to be a 'lock' just yet, but rather, I would consider VCU to be the best 12th team available.
Those numbers are also a little skewed as well for teams like Butler and VCU. For Butler, those are attendance numbers from in the Horizon League. They are going to go up a lot in the A10 and will move up that list. Through 4 weak home games so far, the best team being Elon, they are averaging 6400. A lot of these A10 games will sell out or come close to it. Both Butler and VCU will see their average attendance jump up on that list.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:16 AM   #799 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by Deleo77 View Post
If you are UMass, URI, St. Joe's, GW does being in a basketball league with UConn, Cinci, Memphis and Temple equal losing X, Dayton, SLU etc? I think it does. The remaining A10 AD's need to try to put this together, even if it is a short term deal. It is better than taking on Siena and Delaware. It's a long shot, but they need to try.
That wouldn't be even close to equal, provided they can maintain any kind of success in the A10. But can they convince those schools to do so? They need a home for football, and some of the lower football conferences may play hardball with them to get their basketball teams too.

I would guess the negotiations between CUSA or the MAC with these schools is quite interesting. They really need to just wait for the ACC or Big 12 to need another team, once one or two of those teams leaves for the Pac12 or SEC.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:22 AM   #800 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by Deleo77 View Post
If you are UMass, URI, St. Joe's, GW does being in a basketball league with UConn, Cinci, Memphis and Temple equal losing X, Dayton, SLU etc? I think it does. The remaining A10 AD's need to try to put this together, even if it is a short term deal. It is better than taking on Siena and Delaware. It's a long shot, but they need to try.
I'm glad someone else can see this. Siena will always be there. The football schools would only need to play 4 games a year vs the hoops schools. That is a small price to pay for being able to play your tournament in NYC, and still be relevant in your home area. Plus you'll be avoiding having to play SMU, Houston, and Tulane 6 games a year. YUCK! I'd love to see the A10 final going up against the CYO league final. UConn vs Memphis, UC or Temple. You don't think that would be able to compete with the Catholics?
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:22 AM   #801 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I honestly don't know what to think about this whole thing. I really like the A-10, but I don't want UD left behind in a league that loses its top programs (XU, Butler, Temple - and whoever the others might be). Would the AD's from the "top programs" consider banding together - i.e., it is either a package deal or none? I doubt it. But it certainly would provide some leverage.

I honestly think the real question is whether Xavier will jump even by itself. Is the BE plus a couple that much better for XU? We will see I guess.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:23 AM   #802 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by butlerway View Post
Those numbers are also a little skewed as well for teams like Butler and VCU. For Butler, those are attendance numbers from in the Horizon League. They are going to go up a lot in the A10 and will move up that list. Through 4 weak home games so far, the best team being Elon, they are averaging 6400. A lot of these A10 games will sell out or come close to it. Both Butler and VCU will see their average attendance jump up on that list.
VCU's attendance won't jump...they're already at capacity.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:27 AM   #803 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Butler averaged about 7500 last year, then two CBI games (and about 1500 people each) were bolted on after the season
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:30 AM   #804 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

" Is the BE plus a couple that much better for XU?"

100%. No questions asked. If xavier is the only team they look to add, I think xavier jumps without any hesitation
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:33 AM   #805 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by antboy View Post
That wouldn't be even close to equal, provided they can maintain any kind of success in the A10. But can they convince those schools to do so? They need a home for football, and some of the lower football conferences may play hardball with them to get their basketball teams too.

I would guess the negotiations between CUSA or the MAC with these schools is quite interesting. They really need to just wait for the ACC or Big 12 to need another team, once one or two of those teams leaves for the Pac12 or SEC.
You let UConn, UC, USF, UCF, EC, Memphis, and Temple join UMass, and form their own league. Look, whatever league they join for football is going to stink. Might as well stay close to home. Plus, an 8 team league leaves room for 5 OOC games each year. This is important, as SOS will play a large role in deciding which small league gets a seat at the table each postseason. No need for them to join the MAC or CUSA. They can play each other round robin as one division, and 4 games a year vs the division containing the hoops only schools. I can't see how they have a better option. They could form a 12 team league, full of garbage, weakening their SOS, and providing crappy hoops in far flung locations. Playing the league tournament who knows where. Or, they could play in an 8 team league, with the ability to play 5 OOC games to beef up the schedule, and play hoops mainly in the northeast, with actually less games vs crap opponents, and a conference title game in NYC, as they have for the last 30 years. It's no brainer that even Forrest Gump could figure out.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:33 AM   #806 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Fascinating to see how this all plays out. Odd to see lots of leaks from the Big East side but almost none from the A-10 schools.

As a fan, I am of two minds. If UMass stays in a mostly intact A-10 or somehow ends up in a better league, I'll remain a devout college basketball. If the A-10 is severely weakened or UMass gets cut adrift, that will probably be it for me as a CB fan or a member of this (or any other) board.

I look at the bright side, though. No more shelling out for All-Access and satellite sports channels. And more time and money to watch soccer or enjoy scotch!
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:36 AM   #807 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

The elephant in the room that will keep UD out of the new conference:

NCAA appearnaces since 1990:

Xavier 17
Temple 16
Butler 10
Charlotte 9
GW 8
Umass 7
VCU 6
Richmond 6
St. Louis 5
St. Joes 5
UD 5
St. Bonny 2
LaSalle 1
Fordham 0
Dusquesne 0
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:38 AM   #808 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Why is everyone taking with absolute certainty this idea that joining the BE7 is better than remaining in the A-10? We have pages upon pages of why X, Butler, VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, etc. would be good fits for this "new conference", but seriously, other than Georgetown and Villanova, what are the rest? Marquette is geographically displaced although they've held their own in recent history. DePaul, St. John's, Providence, and Seton Hall could easily swap in for the botton four A-10 schools and no one would take serious notice. You have 4 of the 7 schools living on a reputation that's 25 years old, and quite frankly, has run its course. I'd possibly give St. John's the benfit of the doubt but that's it. The other 3 can go to college BB wasteland as far as I'm concerned.

Unfortunately, money and perception will drive the outcome and it's not going to be that great competitively for anyone in the A-10. It might make sense in dollars and cents, but competitively, any school that leaves the A-10 will have left behind a real solid conference to join 1 good program and 2 or 3 decent ones. Too bad the 7 made themselves a package deal. Georgetown and Villanova would look real nice right now if they were free agents.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:44 AM   #809 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Braswell View Post
The elephant in the room that will keep UD out of the new conference:

NCAA appearnaces since 1990:

Xavier 17
Temple 16
Butler 10
Charlotte 9
GW 8
Umass 7
VCU 6
Richmond 6
St. Louis 5
St. Joes 5
UD 5
St. Bonny 2
LaSalle 1
Fordham 0
Dusquesne 0
DePaul 4
Providence 5

And since 2000, the numbers are:
Dayton 4
St Johns 3
Seton Hall 3
Providence 2
DePaul 2
SLU 2

Are the Big East schools kicking these teams out? Is St Louis now all but out of the talk? Of course not. NCAA success is one part of the discussion. It's not an elephant, it's a fly on the wall.
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Last edited by AdamtheFlyer; 12-13-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:45 AM   #810 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Ok, X people: What is the main driving factor for X to join this new league of misfits? The desire to be with similar Catholic schools or the belief that money will increase?

To me, X is the most valuable basketball program from among the A-10 and the BE7. (Historically, of course, it's Georgetown but that's secondary right now.) So if X doesn't jump, what does the new league have? I guess that's my fundamental confusion about this. The programs that would be leaving the A-10 would instantly become 3 or 4 of the top 4 or 5 programs in the new league. Isn't that backwards?

This is why the A-10 should be calling the shots, not the BE7. If X and the others hang up the phone, who is that new league going to get that would really excite the masses? I'll be very disappointed if things go down this way.
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