More BCS realignment - Page 56 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

tman · 12-13-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownIndians85

Why is everyone taking with absolute certainty this idea that joining the BE7 is better than remaining in the A-10? We have pages upon pages of why X, Butler, VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, etc. would be good fits for this "new conference", but seriously, other than Georgetown and Villanova, what are the rest? Marquette is geographically displaced although they've held their own in recent history. DePaul, St. John's, Providence, and Seton Hall could easily swap in for the botton four A-10 schools and no one would take serious notice. You have 4 of the 7 schools living on a reputation that's 25 years old, and quite frankly, has run its course. I'd possibly give St. John's the benfit of the doubt but that's it. The other 3 can go to college BB wasteland as far as I'm concerned.

Unfortunately, money and perception will drive the outcome and it's not going to be that great competitively for anyone in the A-10. It might make sense in dollars and cents, but competitively, any school that leaves the A-10 will have left behind a real solid conference to join 1 good program and 2 or 3 decent ones. Too bad the 7 made themselves a package deal. Georgetown and Villanova would look real nice right now if they were free agents.

c'mon man
The a-10 has several really bad programs that play in really bad gyms that make me spend really good money to have to watch them play each season.

Some of these a-10 programs are second class citizens in their own city.

The a-10 had many chances to correct what was wrong with this league.
They didn't. instead they kept their heads in the sand.
The entire a-10 will now pay the price.
TOo bad--it could have been something really special.

Had we cut the fat some time ago, some of these programs would have jumped at the opportunity to play in this conference.

A10BBall · 12-13-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REF

NY Post reporting that BE7 to officially announce their departure later today;
Meanwhile, Bobinski has stated that X has been happy in and with the A10. Specific questions about a 21 team league were asked and properly evaded - he seems to be staying out of it for now.

Things that make you go hmmmmm. I gotta think the BE7 have a tentative plan before they 'decide' to kill off the BE.

Yeah it should be interesting. Another article, I will try to find it, by a NC paper has a Duke source saying the ACC would consider approaching the BE7 for possible addition in a similar situation to Notre Dame's agreement. The only question would be is that the conference would have a lot of schools if they add those 7. I guess there would need to be some schools to leave to the Big 10, etc.

There would be similar dollar figures to what the schools get now. The ACC deal is that much larger than the Big East's contract.

brianstl1 · 12-13-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by owlfan2272

It's laughable that the media keeps reporting that the Tulane add caused it all yet none of the articles point out that the basketball only schools had the majority vote... What happened to journalism?

According to the Marquette AD they didn't get a vote. I find that suprising.

A10BBall · 12-13-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tman

c'man man
The a-10 has several really bad programs that play in really bad gyms that make me spend really good money to have to watch them each season.

Some of these a-10 programs are second class citizens in their own cities.

The a-10 had many chances to correct what was wrong with this league.
They didn't. instead they kept their heads in the sand.
The entire a-10 will now pay the price.
TOo bad--it could have been something really special.

Had we cut the fat some time ago, some of these programs would have jumped at the opportunity to play in the conference.

Could be one of the most arrogant posts I have ever read. Obviously this clown doesn't understand either the legal system or how difficult it is to rid of a school.

A10BBall · 12-13-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianstl1

According to the Marquette AD they didn't get a vote. I find that suprising.

Correct.

BrownIndians85 · 12-13-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REF

Bobinski has stated that X has been happy in and with the A10.

We've never heard that kind of talk before. Uhh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Russell

Bernie's silence is deafening

Probably working on the new 21-team TV deal andinking the BE7 to long-term contracts. Err. Or groveling at certain A.D.'s feet to please please please stay in the A-10.

UMass87 · 12-13-2012, 11:49 AM

All this talk does crack me up. Then I realize that there really is a sick game of musical chairs going on and I'm pretty sure UMass is one of the slowest and deafest schools in the game.

owlfan2272 · 12-13-2012, 11:49 AM

It was reported that it was an 8-0 vote for Tulane to be added and the thought was the decision was made by request of the catholic schools because of Tulane's academic standards and background. I just find it embarrasing that Tulane is being attacked for no other reason then to frame them for the collapse of the league.

BrownIndians85 · 12-13-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tman

c'mon man
The a-10 has several really bad programs that play in really bad gyms that make me spend really good money to have to watch them play each season.

Some of these a-10 programs are second class citizens in their own city.
The a-10 had many chances to correct what was wrong with this league.
They didn't. instead they kept their heads in the sand.
The entire a-10 will now pay the price.
TOo bad--it could have been something really special.

Had we cut the fat some time ago, some of these programs would have jumped at the opportunity to play in this conference.

Like the University of Dayton?

jpschmack · 12-13-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tman

Dayton has spent the last twenty years improving its non revenue sports at the expense of its basketball program. So when the call came from the Big East, we would be ready.

Instead the U scheduled 10 home games each season against nobody state, cashed alot of checks and the Baskeball program did not elevate its profile. The baseball team is better but in the end Dayton will be on the outside looking in.
Forging perhaps its last opportunity to join a dream conference.

Dayton has only Dayton to blame.

There's one realistic scenario in which Dayton is left out, and even that's unlikely. UD built next-level infrastructure for the athletic department, while the MBB program kept winning 18-22 games every year. They played RPI games and put forth a masterful OOC schedule that resembled a Big East schedule; What was it: 19-8 vs BCS conferences and like 10-5 in their last 15 against the Big East? They missed NCAA tournaments because they underachieved in CONFERENCE games. Teams they wouldn't be playing anymore. Ignore the XU mockery. UD is in pretty solid shape. You don't base a decision that lasts for multiple decades on one two-week stretch.

Besides, after Xavier leaves, Dayton would just make a couple NCAA Tournaments and then get invited. The new Big East can invite teams #8-9-10-?? until it's a tough decision, then just wait and let the next couple seasons decide for them!

Quote:

Originally Posted by REF

Now is the time your AD earns his money.

No, the AD earns his money by being PREPARED for this day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ace93

[url]http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/
The big question I have is how quickly dissolution would take effect. Next season or the season after?

Dissolving the league would take effect end of the day on June 30, 2013 (If it didn't, the new members joining on July 1, would just change their by-laws to rescind the dissolution).

The goal is that by announcing their intentions, football will leaving willingly or amicably reach a separation agreement before June 30; one that gives basketball the Big East name without a legal mess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mateer

-Speaking of rivalries I would think VCU-Richmond, Xavier-Dayton bring some intrinsic rivalry value to a nascent league, they could capitalize on. Surprised that's not a tertiary consideration--maybe it is? Then travel partners and all that other good stuff.

Eh, just because you're not a conference opponent doesn't mean the game isn't part of your TV package. Temple vs Duke was branded as "ACC on ESPN."

Quote:

Originally Posted by mateer

-I don't get Gonzaga and St. Marys. Until a year ago, even in a football conference (except for CUSA and Sun Belt--mostly for a lack of better options) National type leagues were obviously to expensive. Would they really want to burden their hoops teams with West to East coast trips every two weeks. When would they go to class? Just ridiculous.

The travel issue is highly overrated. Gonzaga averages THREE TRIPS EAST in OOC a year. They also have road trips to San Diego/BYU, Los Angeles, and the Bay Area twice in conference.
In a 12-team Big East with SMC as the only other team outside the central time zone, they'd have trips to: MARQ/DEP, XAV/MW2, ED1/ED2, ED3. So what if they fly 1700 miles to Marquette/DePaul instead of 1300 miles to USD/LMU? It's an extra hour on a plane, and TV revenues will cover the slight increase in expenses.

The kids miss the same amount of class whether they play on the road in Portland or Philly. In fact, they might miss LESS because their sports like WBB could play Friday-Sunday, instead of Thursday-Saturday because of BYU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mateer

-Also, based on the Big Ten Network's model I don't understand the case for football solely driving the bus. If subscribers on the East coast would get a league's network for basketball reasons, it's the same return. Obviously, you lose the big dollars from football from the Saturday, Thursday games, but the market place has room for more League networks, even basketball ones, that can make a lot of money. Shit... A midmajor network just running basketball and I guess FBS football could line up subscribers from coast to coast and put a lot of money in smaller schools pockets.

I'm on board with a mid-major TV network. The issue here is that football is event TV, and basketball is constant programming. There really is more reason to carry a 24/7 basketball channel than a 24/7 football channel, because you can fill a lot more of the week with live games with basketball. But of course, an FBS conference HAS BOTH!

The big problem is that the BE/A10 doesn't have the juice because the BTN has statewide support and 20,000 alums a year. We have 1/10th of that. You could make up for that with a cartel of like 30 schools that bring big markets (A10/BE/WCC/etc) but then you're splitting the profits so many ways, it's not worth the risk of failure.

Medford · 12-13-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by owlfan2272

It's laughable that the media keeps reporting that the Tulane add caused it all yet none of the articles point out that the basketball only schools had the majority vote... What happened to journalism?

the impression that I get (don't know if I'm wrong or not) is that the commish had the power to add Tulane on his own, or perhaps w/ only the input of the football schools, that the BBall schools were not consulted.

Its been reported that the footbal schools had no knowledge of last weekend's meeting amongst themsleves and the commish, that they found out about it thru the media. If that is the case, then the guy is doing a terrible job and its no wonder the BBall schools have called quites.

UMass87 · 12-13-2012, 11:51 AM

Here's one thing I am absolutely positive of: the BE7 will not be in a league with Duquesne, SBU, Fordham, and La Salle. They almost certainly will not be in a league with SJU, URI, or UMass.

owlfan2272 · 12-13-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medford

the impression that I get (don't know if I'm wrong or not) is that the commish had the power to add Tulane on his own, or perhaps w/ only the input of the football schools, that the BBall schools were not consulted.

Its been reported that the footbal schools had no knowledge of last weekend's meeting amongst themsleves and the commish, that they found out about it thru the media. If that is the case, then the guy is doing a terrible job and its no wonder the BBall schools have called quites.

There is just no way that could happen legally I wouldn't think.

Keith Braswell · 12-13-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamtheFlyer

I'm more aware of how NCAA finances work than you ever will be. I also know that the BE7 are splitting from a league with SMU, Houston, UCF, and Tulane. Even getting a smaller total pool of NCAA units, they will get a bigger share by reducing the number of teams getting a piece of the pie. The "new" Big East looked like a 5-6 bid league at most, with all money split 16 ways. The hypothetical league could be a 5-6 bid league, with all money split 12 ways. I would be shocked with a 10 team league. It's a horrible number for a league. This is why NCAA appearances isn't a major issue. Every team they could add is better than the bottom of the league they are leaving.

I can tell you this much, these schools won't use arbitrary starting points on their data like message board posters. They will look at the entire picture.

Bigger than what a program has done is what they are capable of in the future. Georgetown and St Johns do not care what a potential addition did in 1993 or 1997. Are you on stable financial ground? Do you invest at a major program level. How much of your budget is institutional support, and how much is provided by athletic income? Do you have a quality TV presence? Do you have a substantial fan and donor base?

And like I said before, the biggest misnomer is that money is the only driving factor. It's not. It wasn't for the Big Ten, and it won't be for the new basketball league. It's a big factor, but far from the only issue. The goal is to maximize every dollar with like-minded schools.

I think the Catholic issue is being overlooked a bit. It's not a lock to have an all Catholic League, but a Catholic League is more likely than an A10-like collective between Catholic, Private, and Public schools. It may or may not happen, but the presidents of these schools are likely very interested in an all-Catholic league. It will be discussed in great detail. If they determine that the finances of an all-Catholic league would be similar to other options, it will be an all-Catholic league. Presidents make these calls, not Athletic Directors and coaches. If I had to guess, I'd say only one non-Catholic school is in the discussion, Butler.

I can promise you Cigarboy that you don't know more about the economic end than I do. I can also promise you that UD won't get in the new conference. Xavier is tired of pulling UD along. UD has done nothing to improve their basketball program since they entered the A10. UD should be happy if Xavier leaves, they may actually win the A10 for once. Xavier has built itself up for this moment and UD has fallen on it's face like usual. they once again are saying, "look at the Cincinnati and Dayton market together...please take us." Sorry, it's not going to happen.

Flyer75 · 12-13-2012, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

Dayton is a reallignment bubble team right now, IMO. I think it could go either way for us depending on how big or small a new conference will be.

Familiar territory......

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using VerticalSports.Com App

12-13-2012, 11:49 AM	#832 (permalink)
UMass87 Star Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,727 Rep Power: 226644	Re: More BCS realignment All this talk does crack me up. Then I realize that there really is a sick game of musical chairs going on and I'm pretty sure UMass is one of the slowest and deafest schools in the game.

12-13-2012, 11:49 AM	#833 (permalink)
owlfan2272 Star Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,538 Rep Power: 12822	Re: More BCS realignment It was reported that it was an 8-0 vote for Tulane to be added and the thought was the decision was made by request of the catholic schools because of Tulane's academic standards and background. I just find it embarrasing that Tulane is being attacked for no other reason then to frame them for the collapse of the league. __________________ Temple Owls have won a lot.

12-13-2012, 11:51 AM	#837 (permalink)
UMass87 Star Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,727 Rep Power: 226644	Re: More BCS realignment Here's one thing I am absolutely positive of: the BE7 will not be in a league with Duquesne, SBU, Fordham, and La Salle. They almost certainly will not be in a league with SJU, URI, or UMass.

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