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Old 12-13-2012, 04:44 PM   #946 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by e-parade View Post
In this scenario you see UMass stepping down in football to the league we just left?
Ditto for VCU in basketball. I don't see it, but I'm sure Yeager would try.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:48 PM   #947 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I don't see it happening, as the A10 could add Mason and one other solid program and remain quite strong.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:48 PM   #948 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Nm
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:00 PM   #949 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I dont understand why DePaul and Providence are in any of these plans. They are horrible and add nothing. The size of the TV market is irrelevant if no one is tuning in -- and nobody in Chicago gives a hoot about DePaul. They play in a dump out by the airport. They are nearly as irrelevant in Chicago as LaSalle is in Philly or Fordham is in NYC.

Some of those BE7 schools need to be dropped.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:01 PM   #950 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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No matter what happens this is a huge step down for all the ex-Big East teams and all of their fan bases will get smaller because of this.
Yeah because playing in a conference with UCF, Tulane, and USF just being a step up.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:04 PM   #951 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Yeah because playing in a conference with UCF, Tulane, and USF just being a step up.
Just because it's a step down somewhere doesn't mean it's a step up at other options. Everything is a step down from where they were, it's just picking the one that is less down. I still think they should have stayed but at this point I am happy to just shed it and move on.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:08 PM   #952 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Step down from what they are used to. Attendance will be way down.

If any of the A10 teams think that they wont be mistaken for being a mid major in this new conference they are being naive.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:17 PM   #953 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by Muddy Waters earlier today View Post

Seven Schools Reportedly Are Leaning Toward Leaving the Big East (Jeff Eisenberg - Dec. 13, 2012)

Frustrated the Big East has irreparably damaged its basketball brand with recent additions geared toward saving its football future, the presidents of the league's seven non-high level football schools met Wednesday to discuss their options.

An ESPN.com report late Wednesday night indicated a decision could come in the next 24 to 48 hours and it would be "an upset" if the seven schools chose to remain in the league.

DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova have essentially three options:
(1) They can remain in the Big East despite the likelihood that a new TV deal will not meet their expectations and the chance that new additions like Tulane, Houston and SMU drag down the league's basketball standing.

(2) They can leave the league and forfeit millions of dollars in NCAA tournament win shares and exit fees paid by previous departees.

(3) Or they can dissolve the league altogether if they have the two-thirds majority necessary to make such a decision.
According to the ESPN.com report, dissolving the league is a real possibility because new member Temple is not allowed to vote on the dissolution of the conference until after July 1.

As a result, the seven would have the two-thirds majority they need even if existing Big East members Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida voted against them.


Would the seven Catholic schools merge with the Atlantic 10 or form a new league by poaching some of the Atlantic 10's upper-echelon programs? Would San Diego State and Boise State remain committed to leaving the Mountain West for the Big East in football and the Big West in everything else? And would Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida be forced to remain in the ruins of the Big East or would they be able to parlay the chaos into invitations from other power conferences?

All of those questions will come into play should the seven Catholic schools opt to break away from the Big East, which certainly will not be an easy decision. Here's a look at some of the pros and cons of staying in the Big East for the seven potential departees:

PRO: If the seven Catholic schools remain in the Big East, they're still in the same league with hoops powers such as UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis and Temple. That foursome is considerably stronger than any four or five schools the seven could align with outside the Big East, even if they manage to lure schools such as Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis, Butler or Creighton.

CON: Both Cincinnati and UConn would bolt for the ACC or Big 12 at the first hint of an invitation, so it's foolish for the seven Catholic schools to count on having them as Big East members much longer. Take those two schools out of the equation, and suddenly the Big East looks much less attractive basketball-wise. It becomes Memphis, Temple and a bunch of bland mediocre filler, whether it's SMU, Houston, South Florida or Tulane.

Winners and Losers if the Big East Seven Break Away from the League (Jeff Eisenberg - four hours ago)

You'll hear a lot in the coming days about how the impending breakup of the once-mighty Big East is a sad day for college basketball.

In reality, that's not entirely true.

The Big East irreparably damaged its basketball brand the second it chose to respond to the departure of basketball cornerstones like Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Louisville by scrambling to salvage its football future with the additions of UCF, SMU and Tulane.

What makes the final step of the Big East's breakup a positive for college basketball is that a quality hoops-centric league now appears destined to emerge from the rubble of what was once the most formidable conference in the land.

The Big East's seven basketball-first members — DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova — reportedly will sever ties with the rest of the league and branch out on their own. They'll likely raid the Atlantic 10 or other leagues to add three to five other basketball-focused schools.

That league may not be of the caliber of the Big East in its heyday, but college basketball will be better for the decision of the Big East Seven to break away from their football-playing cohorts. Annual matchups between Villanova and Xavier or Georgetown and Butler sound intriguing. Annual games between St. John's and Tulane or Marquette and UCF did not.

Like anything else in conference realignment, the ripple effect from the Big East Seven's departure will impact schools and leagues from coast-to-coast. A look at the winners and losers if the Big East Seven indeed decide to follow through with their plan to break away from the rest of the league:


Winner: Xavier

A handful of programs have been mentioned as potential targets for the Big East Seven, from the Atlantic 10's Xavier, Butler, Dayton and Saint Louis, to the Valley's Creighton, to the CAA's George Mason, to the WCC's Gonzaga.

Only the Musketeers appear to be a near-lock to receive an invitation. Xavier is a geographic and religious fit, plus it boasts high-major facilities and fan support, a winning pedigree and upward momentum. Three to five schools from the above list could join the Big East Seven, but the Musketeers are the most clear-cut asset.


Loser: The Atlantic 10

It was a good PR move by the A-10 to float the idea of inviting the Big East Seven to join the league as a 21-team conglomeration, but the reality is the breakaway schools were never going to cede that control.

Instead the Atlantic 10 is likely going to lose some of its flagship programs to the Big East Seven, with Xavier being a near-lock and Dayton and Butler also looking like strong possibilities.

Losses like those would not be easy for the Atlantic 10 to replace. It can still be a multi-bid league in that scenario like the WCC for example, but the days of 3 to 5 NCAA bids each year would almost certainly be over.


Related post on BE7 conference expansion.


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Old 12-13-2012, 05:23 PM   #954 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

A move is also not going to make it easier to schedule home and homes with BCS schools as I have seen assumed around the boards.

I am sorry but Florida and UCLA are not going to want to come to Dayton, Ohio.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:35 PM   #955 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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A move is also not going to make it easier to schedule home and homes with BCS schools as I have seen assumed around the boards.

I am sorry but Florida and UCLA are not going to want to come to Dayton, Ohio.
Most people from Dayton don't want to be in Dayton either.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:36 PM   #956 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Most people from Ohio don't want to be in Ohio either.
FTFY
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:44 PM   #957 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Any schools jumping to the new Big East should be aware that Georgetown will be gone in a jiffy if the ACC calls as rumored. Could be the reason why they are holding up the finalization of the split as they would be trying to take as much cash out with them a possible.

Without GU, the remaining teams are on par with the A-10.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:45 PM   #958 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment


Seven Schools Debating How To Go (Brett McMurphy, Andy Katz, and Dana O'Neil, ESPN - December 13, 2012, 7:45 PM ET)

The seven Catholic schools leaving should allow Notre Dame and Louisville to join Syracuse and Pitt in the ACC next season ahead of schedule, Irish coach Mike Brey said Thursday.

Notre Dame was supposed to stay in the Big East for a 27-month period, which could mean as long as the 2015 season. But the Irish have been negotiating an early exit.

Brey also said the discussion among the Catholic schools was to make it a national Catholic conference with Xavier, Saint Louis, Dayton, Creighton, Gonzaga and possibly Saint Mary's as well.

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Old 12-13-2012, 05:46 PM   #959 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Why would they create a national conference and include two teams from Southwest Ohio????
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:52 PM   #960 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Where do you get only 3-4 bids for the new Big East and then 2-4 for the A-10??

Xavier, Butler, Georgetown and Marquette all go to the NCAA essentially every year (in Xavier’s case) or the vast majority of the time. Then add in Villanova and St Louis getting their fair share of bids as well.
A 10-team Big East with Xavier, Saint Louis and Butler would play a double-round robin for 18 games, and someone has to lose those games when the top six of the league plays each other. It doesn't matter who made the dance in difference conferences, the sixth place team of a 10-team league has been over .500 in conference ONCE in the last 10 years in any league.

Is 10-8 in conference getting you into the dance? That's 2-8 against the top six of the league, or 3-7 with a bad loss. Or 4-6 with two bad losses. You better go 9-3 OOC at worst, and even then, the 4-5 game in the conference quarterfinals looks like a bubble elimination game.

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Who is left in the A-10? VCU. And then George Mason would get their fair share. Maybe Dayton, maybe Richmond once in a while. Maybe UMass if they are in the A-10?

It’d probably be more like 4-5 for the new Big East and 1-3 for the A-10. And that’s just appearances…
Appearances don't matter. It's math. Someone has to lose those games. You can put the best 10 teams in the country together in one conference, and at least four teams are going to be 7-11 and worse.

The same concept applies in the "smaller, weaker, A-10." Just because Temple, Xavier, Saint Louis and Butler are gone, doesn't mean the other teams are going to be fighting for fifth place still. The top three teams will still be 13-3, 12-4; 11-5, 10-6. In nine seasons with 12 teams, the A-10 averaged 3.1 bids.

The names change, the math doesn't. As long as the same number of teams win non-conference games at the same clip as 1996-2005, the league will be just fine.

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Seems this new conference will not be called the Big East. That is a huge blow to any branding.
It probably will be the Big East. They aren't going to just bolt. They're going to threaten football with their power to dissolve, and force football to take a settlement of NCAA shares in exchange for leaving the conference.

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