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Old 11-20-2012, 07:24 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I still don't see why people think a BE split is inevitable. Being affiliated with a Division 1 football conference is always going to be more profitable.

I don't know if things will truly stop even with a 4x16 configuration. At that point, doesn't a conference then say, "Hey, why not go to 20?"

Schools and conferences are always going to be searching for more money and better deals. The only way this stops is if/when the TV money bubble bursts. There eventually has to be a limit to how much money can be given out by networks and cable systems.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:32 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

I think a split is inevitable because the football schools still in the Big East will all leave. Or at least all the BE football schools wh've been in the league for at least two years will soon be all gone.

That would leave a bunch of Catholic basketball schools on the East Coast associated with lots of college football schools across the entire country. I don't see it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:38 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by WH today View Post

Re: More BCS realignment - Post # 89


So then, what about the A-10?

Let’s assume the NCAA basketball structure is not affected much by the sea change in college football.

The A-10 has 16 teams now. We lose two after this year to put us at 14.

I think it is inevitable that the Big East basketball teams separate from the remaining football teams. I could see UConn ending up in the ACC, and Lousville (ACC or SEC), Cincy (Big 12) and South Florida (SEC, ACC or Big 12) ending up in new homes.

That would leave the seven remaining Big East basketball schools in a fix. Nova, PC, Seton Hall, St Johns, Marquette, Depaul, and Georgetown.

A situation like this will set up a struggle with the A-10. Who calls the shots? Do the Big East teams, with the better brand, successfully poach some A-10 schools into their conference?

Or does the A-10 hold firm and try to dictate?

Given what we know about our commissioner, she will be aggressive. If I were in charge, I would try to get the A-10 schools to stick together for the most part. Then I would pick off a couple of Big East schools.

My plan would envision adding Marquette and Villanova, jettisoning Fordham and adding St. Johns.

If UMass leaves, the A-10 could also offer either Depaul, Georgetown or Providence. (As a UMass fan, I do not want to leave the A-10.)

From my perspective, most basketball-only Big East teams don’t add much for the A-10. If we cherry pick a few, that destroys what’s left of Big East basketball and the leftover programs will wither and dry up on the vine.

First, the potential new additions. Marquette strengthens our Midwest presence and provides another rival for SLU, Butler, X and Dayton. The school has a great fanbase and nice arena.

Nova has a nice arena and great tradition and fills the hole left by Temple. In fact, Nova coming to the A-10 and Temple leaving for a disintegrating Big East would give the A-10 an even stronger position in Philly hoops.

The A-10 will also have to be a bit ruthless. Dump Fordham for lack of commitment (new arena) and bring in St. Johns to strengthen our New York City presence.

Beyond that, we really don’t need any other Big East teams.

We have Rhode Island covered and don’t need PC.

We have GW and don’t need Georgetown, another school that lacks a good on-campus arena.

We don’t need Seton Hall to recruit kids from Jersey. The A-10 and the rest of the country have been doing that for years. Seton Hall lacks a nice campus arena and they have long been a league straggler.

Depaul is more attractive because of the Chicago market, but the A-10 should not go beyond 16 members, in my view. The league could get ruthless again and dump another team if it really wants Depaul.

Or we could go to 17 teams and have every team play each other once in league play.

A complicating factor could be the process for the A-10 getting rid of teams.

If league bylaws make that too hard, it’s always possible the best schools in the A-10 will join forces with the remaining Big East basketball schools to combine into a 16-team league.

They would then keep the Big East brand for basketball.


I favor the first option. Don’t let the Big East basketball schools dictate.

Heck, the league could fold entirely if the A-10 plays hardball. A rump of Georgetown, PC, Seton Hall and Depaul would not be able to create a league to rival the A-10. Maybe we could even help them out by buying their Big East brand for a nice pice of change!

I could easily see those schools fading into mid-major status within a decade. Given all the changes in the college sports landscape, anything is possible.
There are other possibilities as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Waters on October 5, 2011 View Post

Re: The realignment fun starts today - Post # 248


New "Basketball School" Big East Conference

East Division

1. Georgetown
2. Providence
3. Seton Hall
4. St. John's
5. Villanova
6. Richmond


West Division

1. DePaul
2. Marquette
3. Butler
4. Dayton
5. St. Louis
6. Xavier
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonspider on October 7, 2011 View Post

Re: The realignment fun starts today - Post # 323




Last edited by Muddy Waters; 11-20-2012 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:50 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Sure, that's always possible. The Catholic-private school league. On paper it hold great appeal for its symmetry.

I am biased as a UMass alum, so take the following with a grain of salt. I would question three things.

One, I think any new league will have to go to 16 teams.

Two, letting the Big East teams control the formation of the new league will put Xavier and Dayton in the backseat. Right now they have big sway in the A-10. I'd rather call the shots then let other schools do that.

Three, I am not sure a mostly Catholic league will prove to be a good marketing tool in the future as American society increasingly becomes less religious.

Ultimately, personal relationships will determine who ends up where. I doubt Maryland would ever have ended up in the Big 10 if is leadership were still steeped in the world of the ACC.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:54 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Notre Dame already told us how much weight an "All Catholic League" carries. They voted with their feet.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:56 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

WH, I don't fully get why you would want 3 teams in Philly and only 1 in NYC. I do understand why dumping Fordham might make sense, but also think the conference could use 2 teams in NYC more than it needs 3 teams in Philly.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:00 AM   #97 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by WH View Post
I've also seen talk that the ACC might be interested in Georgetown or St. Johns. but I can't see the league inviting in some basketball-only teams. Goes totally against the trend in college football.

Gotta wonder when you hear rumors like that if the schools are spreading them to gain future negotiating leverage - or if it's school supporters spreading the rumors.
I agree.. I do not see this happening. These power conferences will only take football schools.

Notre Dame being the exception but even they have an agreement to play mandatory games annually.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:01 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Notre Dame already told us how much weight an "All Catholic League" carries. They voted with their feet.
I don't think Georgetown and Villanova are thrilled with the prospect of an all Catholic basketball only league. It would be a big donwgrade in prestige and revenues. Could probably add St. John's with them as well. I believe that this is one of the reasons you have not seen the Big East already split. I suppose a Catholic basketball only league could be in the future for GU and VU but only if there were absolutely no other viable options.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:01 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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WH, I don't fully get why you would want 3 teams in Philly and only 1 in NYC. I do understand why dumping Fordham might make sense, but also think the conference could use 2 teams in NYC more than it needs 3 teams in Philly.
You do know Temple is leaving, right?
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:03 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by WH View Post
Sure, that's always possible. The Catholic-private school league. On paper it hold great appeal for its symmetry.

I am biased as a UMass alum, so take the following with a grain of salt. I would question three things.

One, I think any new league will have to go to 16 teams.

Two, letting the Big East teams control the formation of the new league will put Xavier and Dayton in the backseat. Right now they have big sway in the A-10. I'd rather call the shots then let other schools do that.

Three, I am not sure a mostly Catholic league will prove to be a good marketing tool in the future as American society increasingly becomes less religious.

Ultimately, personal relationships will determine who ends up where. I doubt Maryland would ever have ended up in the Big 10 if is leadership were still steeped in the world of the ACC.
Ha exactly WH... Too much faulty logic in Muddy's post to even bother...
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:04 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by TreachX View Post
I still don't see why people think a BE split is inevitable. Being affiliated with a Division 1 football conference is always going to be more profitable.

I don't know if things will truly stop even with a 4x16 configuration. At that point, doesn't a conference then say, "Hey, why not go to 20?"

Schools and conferences are always going to be searching for more money and better deals. The only way this stops is if/when the TV money bubble bursts. There eventually has to be a limit to how much money can be given out by networks and cable systems.
EXACTLY
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:09 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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You do know Temple is leaving, right?
He mentioned adding Viilanova which puts it back at 3.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:15 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by WH View Post
So then, what about the A-10. Letís assume the NCAA basketball structure is not affected much by the sea change in college football.

The A-10 has 16 teams now. We lose two after this year to put us at 14.

I think it is inevitable that the Big East basketball teams separate from the remaining football teams. I could see UConn ending up in the ACC, and Lousville (ACC or SEC), Cincy (Big 12) and South Florida (SEC, ACC or Big 12) ending up in new homes.

That would leave the seven remaining Big East basketball schools in a fix. Nova, PC, Seton Hall, St Johns, Marquette, Depaul and Georgetown.

A situation like this will set up a struggle with the A-10. Who calls the shots? Do the Big East teams, with the better brand, successfully poach some A-10 schools into their conference?

Or does the A-10 hold firm and try to dictate?

Given what we know about our commissioner, she will be aggressive. If I were in charge, I would try to get the A-10 schools to stick together for the most part. Then I would pick off a couple of Big East schools.

My plan would envision adding Marquette and Villanova, jettisoning Fordham and adding St. Johns.

If UMass leaves, the A-10 could also offer either Depaul, Georgetown or Providence. (As a UMass fan, I do not want to leave the A-10.)

From my perspective, most basketball-only Big East teams donít add much for the A-10. If we cherry pick a few, that destroys whatís left of Big East basketball and the leftover programs will wither and dry up on the vine.

First, the potential new additions. Marquette strengthens our Midwest presence and provides another rival for SLU, Butler, X and Dayton. The school has a great fanbase and nice arena.

Nova has a nice arena and great tradition and fills the hole left by Temple. In fact, Nova coming to the A-10 and Temple leaving for a disintegrating Big East would give the A-10 an even stronger position in Philly hoops.

The A-10 will also have to be a bit ruthless. Dump Fordham for lack of commitment (new arena) and bring in St. Johns to strengthen our New York City presence.

Beyond that, we really donít need any other Big East teams.

We have Rhode Island covered and donít need PC.

We have GW and donít need Georgetown, another school that lacks a good on-campus arena.

We donít need Seton Hall to recruit kids from Jersey. The A-10 and the rest of the country have been doing that for years. Seton Hall lacks a nice campus arena and they have long been a league straggler.

Depaul is more attractive because of the Chicago market, but the A-10 should not go beyond 16 members, in my view. The league could get ruthless again and dump another team if it really wants Depaul.

Or we could go to 17 teams and have every team play each other once in league play.

A complicating factor could be the process for the A-10 getting rid of teams. If league bylaws make that too hard, itís always possible the best schools in the A-10 will join forces with the remaining Big East basketball schools to combine into a 16-team league. They would then keep the Big East brand for basketball.

I favor the first option. Donít let the Big East basketball schools dictate.

Heck, the league could fold entirely if the A-10 plays hardball. A rump of Georgetown, PC, Seton Hall and Depaul would not be able to create a league to rival the A-10. Maybe we could even help them out by buying their Big East brand for a nice pice of change!

I could easily see those schools fading into mid-major status within a decade. Given all the changes in the college sports landscape, anything is possible.
The best and most logical post in the entire thread.

People are in a pipe dream if a Catholic, private school basketball league. THAT ISN'T HAPPENING.. Notre Dame's decision has already told you that IS NOT HAPPENING..

Look for the remaining "BE Basketball only schools" to look out for themselves.. and that would be 2 or 4 teams joining the A-10. It would the first 2 or 4 teams that we probably offer would take it.

With those remaining schools, there just isn't an upgrade (if at all). Remember the A-10 is the premier non-BCS basketball conference in the country why would you leave that. The risk simply is not worth it.

The only thing that I disagree in this post is that the brand of "Big East" would go with them. I do not see this happening as the football schools will also have basketball and the football schools are dictating the shots and will want to keep the value in the Big East brand or whatever is left in it. This means that those new schools will need to create a new brand which also provides even more leverage for the A-10 schools. The A-10 schools and the conference in general is in the power position.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:15 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Tough to continue big east football name when you lose everyone. Uconn and Rutgers are definitely gone, Louisville wants out, SDSU and Boise st are backing out, I expect Houston and SMU to back out if all that happens then you are left with Cincy, south Florida, temple and navy for football and they won't be able to bring in any big schools. At best they are a cusa or mac level league.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:20 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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He mentioned adding Viilanova which puts it back at 3.
My apologies..

In the hypothetical expansion would you rather have Fordham or Villanova? St John's or Villanova?

I understand the decision based on markets and size but there has to be a factor of quality of program.

Especially since the contract has already been drawn out now for quite a while now so the contract isn't changing any time soon.
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