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Old 12-16-2012, 09:15 PM   #1186 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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GW IS NOT team C. They went to 3 NCAA's but only won 1 game.
Thanks. I rearranged the teams and it through my answer key all to hell.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:16 PM   #1187 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by nwflyer View Post
I guess alot of UD people are stupid because they are trying to align with schools that screwed them over in the past. I don't know if UCONN would want to join a conference without their football team, but if they did, the BE7 would gladly accept a school with some NCAA championships under their belt. UCONN basketball program is in a precarious situation.

If the thought threatens you, thats not my problem. If X does join the new conference, you will fit in nicely with the arrogant BE7.
It's not about being threatened.

If you don't like where UD is in the pecking order, especially as juxtaposed against Xavier's position in it, then too bad. It isn't about being arrogant, or threatened.

Could they change their minds? Sure, because we're in a very fluid time over all this right now. Did they make it this far without firmly aligning their expectations? Absolutely no. They didn't step out this far without being in firm agreement that it's about basketball and that they'll tow this road together.

Keep in mind that we haven't even gotten to the golden handcuffs - exit fee - conversation for this new hoops conference yet. I believe they'll really lock this thing up and make a run at optimizing the conference when they're fully ready to lock it up; the members that come to comprise this thing will be aligned and locked up together for a while (BTW, don't extrapolate what's going on with Maryland to this situation).

It's becoming clear to anyone who cares to be truthful with themselves: Xavier and Butler are most likely gravitating towards the BE7. From there, that group - Presidents, ADs and TV execs - will determine if it stays at 9, goes beyond 9 at that point, or holds at 9 but with incremental additions down the line. Then, if it's about beyond 9, it's about 10 or 12.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:36 PM   #1188 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by xudash View Post
If you don't like where UD is in the pecking order, especially as juxtaposed against Xavier's position in it, then too bad. It isn't about being arrogant, or threatened..
I am one of the few UD fans who is not excited about joining a conference with the BE7. I do consider many of the BE7 fans and administration to be incredibly arrogant when it comes to UD. My opinions are based on the past, not any potential future alignments.

If your girl cheats on you, no mater how hot she appears, you better think twice before comitting to her again.

When a10nick replies to a post with name calling, he sure appears threatened to me.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:49 PM   #1189 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by nwflyer View Post
I am one of the few UD fans who is not excited about joining a conference with the BE7. I do consider many of the BE7 fans and administration to be incredibly arrogant when it comes to UD. My opinions are based on the past, not any potential future alignments.

If your girl cheats on you, no mater how hot she appears, you better think twice before comitting to her again.

When a10nick replies to a post with name calling, he sure appears threatened to me.
To your point, they may be fairly arrogant to certain parties beyond UD.

We talk about BRAND and POSITIONING and STATUS. I guess this is an area that lends itself to confident behavior.

We'll see what happens, knowing that winning takes care of a lot.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:02 PM   #1190 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

You simply dont need that profile conference anymore to be relevant. We already are relevant. Butler and VCU have made Final-4s. Xavier flushed a Final-4 down the crapper against Duke. What cant be done in the A10 that can with those Big East schools?

I find it hilarious that the Big East catholic schools are reserving a spot for DePaul in some new conference, but might keep out a Richmond, St. Joe, Dayton, SLU, etc. Thats funny. The last time DePaul was relevant was when they won the worst NCAA tourney basketball game ever played in 2004 vs. the Flyers. They needed two overtimes and one power forward going 0-10 from the line to win.

We already have a consensus on screwing Nova. Can we get a consensus on screwing Georgetown too? They think they are Notre Dame without the football.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:13 PM   #1191 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by xudash View Post
We talk about BRAND and POSITIONING and STATUS. I guess this is an area that lends itself to confident behavior.
You may fit in well with the the BE7 also. I can be plenty confident about my own personal capabilities and behaivor, but I am not able to be an arrogant fan. I am realistic enough to know that wins on the basketball court are not my accomplishments.

UD is more than capable of playing basketball games against Marquette or any of the other BE teams. Check the records and you will find that UD has faired quite well against the BE. But I would not kiss their behind just to be in the same conference.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:53 PM   #1192 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by Chetburger View Post
You simply dont need that profile conference anymore to be relevant. We already are relevant. Butler and VCU have made Final-4s. Xavier flushed a Final-4 down the crapper against Duke. What cant be done in the A10 that can with those Big East schools?

I find it hilarious that the Big East catholic schools are reserving a spot for DePaul in some new conference, but might keep out a Richmond, St. Joe, Dayton, SLU, etc. Thats funny. The last time DePaul was relevant was when they won the worst NCAA tourney basketball game ever played in 2004 vs. the Flyers. They needed two overtimes and one power forward going 0-10 from the line to win.

We already have a consensus on screwing Nova. Can we get a consensus on screwing Georgetown too? They think they are Notre Dame without the football.
1. They are moving as a group and keeping DePaul. They aren't keeping anybody out really. They need all 7 to keep the autobid under NCAA rules and for many other practical reasons.

2. Nobody needs to be in any particular conference. However, there are certain advantages and disadvantages to membership in every conference. Recruiting. Strength of Schedule. Ability to sell tickets to home games against good opponents. Media coverage. Money to retain your coaches and improves facilities, Etc.

3. Not sure how VCU or Butler help prove your point. They made Final Fours in their previous conferences but still decided for a perceived conference upgrade when the opportunity presented itself. They would probably do so again if the opportunity presented itself. As should any team.

If your argument was persuasive, those teams wouldn't be in the A10 right now.....
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:04 AM   #1193 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

VCU and Butler to the A10 were demonstrative steps up in competition, while the A10 to the Big Priest is anything but demonstrative. It might not even be marginal, but a step backward. Going from the Horizon to the A10 is way different than the A10 to the Big Priest. Its a game-changing move by Butler. The same comparison of the A10 to Big Priest is not apples to apples. The leaps are not symmetrical.

Pains me to say it but I may be coming around to NWFlyer's angle. At one time I was all for this Big Priest thing. But the world of college athletics has redefined itself just in the last cpl of years and I dont like where its going. Its not about the student part of student-athlete anymore. The A10 should give the 7Catholics the birdie just to see people in seven cities spontaneously combust.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:51 AM   #1194 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

This is what bugs me. I know I harp on this all the time, but…

When people say "why are is the BE7 better than the A-10? DePaul has been awful by RPI. Providence, St. John's and Seton Hall all have worse NCAA resumes than blah blah blah… it doesn't mean anything. Because DePaul's horrible RPI/Record comes from playing 18 Big East games. Which they won't be playing anymore.

"What makes them better than us?" boils down to one simple factor. OOC win percentage. RPI is redundant system based on circular logic: Having a good record doesn't make you good. Having a good record against teams with good record is what makes you good.

As I said before, every conference goes .500 against itself. The teams that are at the top of the conference standings are gonna have good records. And they're going to have played 17-21 games out of 31-34 against their conference mates.

So what makes one conference stronger than another, or what makes teams have better RPIs than another is nothing more than how your conference does OOC.

Big East last 5 seasons:
.7650 Win Pct (3rd) vs .4963 SOS (25th)
.7950 Win Pct (2nd) vs .5129 SOS (4th)
.8051 Win Pct (3rd) vs .5087 SOS (10th)
.7744 Win Pct (5th) vs .5012 SOS (13th)
.7347 Win Pct (5th) vs .4988 SOS (15th)

A-10 last 5 seasons
.6186 Win Pct (7th) vs .5141 SOS (5th)
.5864 Win Pct (9th) vs .5062 SOS (5th)
.6243 Win Pct (9th) vs .5192 SOS (4th)
.5926 Win Pct (9th) vs .5068 SOS (8th)
.6432 Win Pct (8th) vs .5067 SOS (9th)

They win more, against weaker teams, and therefore are rated higher. Their conference games are worth more SOS to each team, and they get more bids.

Is the BE7 better than us? OOC last five years:
A14: .6111 Win Pct (No VCU, No Butler)
A16: .6258 Win Pct (VCU, Butler)
BE7: .7500 Win Pct
A12: .6078 Win Pct (X, SLU, Butler leave)
A12+ .6140 Win Pct (X, SLU, Butler, UMass leave; GMU is added)

So, yes. Yes they are. But we can CONTROL our OOC win pct, by playing weaker teams OOC, having a better record, making our conference games worth more. Of course, because people don't understand the conference effect of RPI, we'll probably do the opposite and play harder OOC games because we lost Temple and Xavier (shakes head).
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:28 AM   #1195 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by nwflyer View Post
I am one of the few UD fans who is not excited about joining a conference with the BE7. I do consider many of the BE7 fans and administration to be incredibly arrogant when it comes to UD. My opinions are based on the past, not any potential future alignments.

If your girl cheats on you, no mater how hot she appears, you better think twice before comitting to her again.

When a10nick replies to a post with name calling, he sure appears threatened to me.
I apologize for linking your posting quality to the level of Muddy Waters. (I have no idea what else you could be referring to relative to "name calling" other than that.)

The "utterly stupid, Swiss Cheese brain matter, and frontal lobotomy" sentence referred to the condition of any BE-7 President or AD (i.e. "Honcho") who would support aligning his or her teams with UConn and Cincy, not to people on this board. They have already LIVED the life of a hybrid Conference. Why would they want to leave that situation and then create a form of it all over again?
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I just want the team I support to be in a stronger conference. I'd prefer it to be a stronger A-10! To me that would mean every member would have at least 2 trips to the NCAA Tourney and 5 winning seasons during each 10-year cycle. It would also be great for every program to seriously challenge for a league title (either regular season or Tourney) at least once during that same period of time.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:12 AM   #1196 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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Originally Posted by jpschmack View Post
This is what bugs me. I know I harp on this all the time, but…

When people say "why are is the BE7 better than the A-10? DePaul has been awful by RPI. Providence, St. John's and Seton Hall all have worse NCAA resumes than blah blah blah… it doesn't mean anything. Because DePaul's horrible RPI/Record comes from playing 18 Big East games. Which they won't be playing anymore.

"What makes them better than us?" boils down to one simple factor. OOC win percentage. RPI is redundant system based on circular logic: Having a good record doesn't make you good. Having a good record against teams with good record is what makes you good.

As I said before, every conference goes .500 against itself. The teams that are at the top of the conference standings are gonna have good records. And they're going to have played 17-21 games out of 31-34 against their conference mates.

So what makes one conference stronger than another, or what makes teams have better RPIs than another is nothing more than how your conference does OOC.

Big East last 5 seasons:
.7650 Win Pct (3rd) vs .4963 SOS (25th)
.7950 Win Pct (2nd) vs .5129 SOS (4th)
.8051 Win Pct (3rd) vs .5087 SOS (10th)
.7744 Win Pct (5th) vs .5012 SOS (13th)
.7347 Win Pct (5th) vs .4988 SOS (15th)

A-10 last 5 seasons
.6186 Win Pct (7th) vs .5141 SOS (5th)
.5864 Win Pct (9th) vs .5062 SOS (5th)
.6243 Win Pct (9th) vs .5192 SOS (4th)
.5926 Win Pct (9th) vs .5068 SOS (8th)
.6432 Win Pct (8th) vs .5067 SOS (9th)

They win more, against weaker teams, and therefore are rated higher. Their conference games are worth more SOS to each team, and they get more bids.

Is the BE7 better than us? OOC last five years:
A14: .6111 Win Pct (No VCU, No Butler)
A16: .6258 Win Pct (VCU, Butler)
BE7: .7500 Win Pct
A12: .6078 Win Pct (X, SLU, Butler leave)
A12+ .6140 Win Pct (X, SLU, Butler, UMass leave; GMU is added)

So, yes. Yes they are. But we can CONTROL our OOC win pct, by playing weaker teams OOC, having a better record, making our conference games worth more. Of course, because people don't understand the conference effect of RPI, we'll probably do the opposite and play harder OOC games because we lost Temple and Xavier (shakes head).
Well since the current A-10 is deeper and better than Catholic 7.. I guess they are going to have to play better teams now and lose.. especially since 5 of the 7 teams in the Catholic 7 aren't really good
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:26 AM   #1197 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

Dissolve A10, form new conference without the bottom bad teams, add couple good teams and we have much better and more stable conferrence then Big Priest.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:28 AM   #1198 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

A higher % of the BE7 are in the RPI Top100 than the A10. Not sure what your point is A10BBall?
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:39 AM   #1199 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

The A-10 is dragged down by its bottom feeders. Otherwise some of what you guys are saying might make sense. Escaping Fordham is almost reason enough to join the BE7.

And I'm glad Xavier wasn't so short-sighted as to refuse to ever be in a league with Dayton again after Dayton left X behind in the MCC to join the Great Midwest.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:14 AM   #1200 (permalink)
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Re: More BCS realignment

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The A-10 is dragged down by its bottom feeders. Otherwise some of what you guys are saying might make sense. Escaping Fordham is almost reason enough to join the BE7.

And I'm glad Xavier wasn't so short-sighted as to refuse to ever be in a league with Dayton again after Dayton left X behind in the MCC to join the Great Midwest.
We still played the Flyers every year when we were not in the same Conference following UD's departure from the MCC. So what's the big deal? You don't have to be in a Conference together to maintain a rivalry (See UC, for example.)
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I just want the team I support to be in a stronger conference. I'd prefer it to be a stronger A-10! To me that would mean every member would have at least 2 trips to the NCAA Tourney and 5 winning seasons during each 10-year cycle. It would also be great for every program to seriously challenge for a league title (either regular season or Tourney) at least once during that same period of time.
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