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Old 12-14-2012, 04:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

UDs President worked with the current brass at Creighton when they were at St. Joe together as well.

Nobody wants the Big East name. Its a tar and feathered brand now. It holds zero relevance. The 1980s are just that -- the 1980s. Nobody cares anymore. What the Big East has gone through over the last 5-7 years is an embarrassment to higher education and putting students first. Any A10 schools wanting to join forces with the likes of Nova and GTown dont want to touch the Big East name with a 10ft pole.

The Big East cannot sell anything by itself. The product is what sold the Big East -- not the name. And the product is a highly watered down version of its former self.

If you are basically starting a new league, you start it from a clean sheet of paper. Everyone has to be in on the ground floor. There can be no external baggage brought in to give some teams more perceived ownership and steerage. As a UD fan, the absolute last thing I want to be associated with right now is the Big East name. I want to get as far away from it as possible. We are not living in the 1980-90s anymore. Most of the kids suiting up now have never even heard of Ed Pinckney or Malik Sealy.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

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Originally Posted by owlfan2272 View Post
Interesting strategy. Some have said it may take 1-2 years for the schools to officially separate so this could convince them to join in instead of recreate a conference. Even if the A-10 does get poached it will reduce the league and make it more attractive to teams like Creighton etc. Still dropping 4 schools is a pretty big step.
As a fan of a team for whom an entire conference (one with a sweet name at that, Great Midwest>Conference USA) was dissolved, I can't support the A10 axing anyone. It's probably the right idea, but no one deserves that.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

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Originally Posted by mm4cc View Post
Dropping teams could save the A10. If you get rid of the bottom teams in the conference then joining the A10 may actually be an attractive option for the BE7, but only if they can't retain the rights to the Big East name. How many schools would need to be dropped for this to be a possibility?
Dropping programs really can't "save" the A-10.

XU, SLU and Butler don't need saving. They're good either way.

So for those 10 to consider having their league under the name Atlantic 10, at lease FIVE schools have to be dropped:
-- Fordham, LaSalle, Saint Joseph's, GW, URI; because they share those markets.
-- Possibly St. Bona due to their market size/location.

That leaves six schools to potentially saved: Dayton, VCU, Richmond, Duquesne, UMass, and possibly St. Bona.

Drop five to save six, or drop six to save five? Can't be done through conference voting. If it were possible, the BE7 would just do it to Big East football and keep THAT name.

Now, if the BE7 was planning on taking 7 to 9 A10 schools for a 14/16 team conference, it MIGHT be worth their while to accept Duquesne and Bonaventure in order to get the Atlantic 10 name. But it probably wouldn't be because it could get them sued.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

X's AD went to Notre Dame.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

Fordham's president went to Boston College.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

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Fordham's president went to Boston College.
Ace, I love the Fordham perspective you bring. Especially your breakdown of how much a Fordham ticket costs.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

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Duquesne's President went to St. Bonaventure...
Bonaventure's president went to Duquesne. Lets form a two team conference.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

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Why are the A10 presidents calling a meeting? Its utterly POINTLESS. Programs are leaving for the Big East when invited, its not complex.

Everyone will act in their self interest. Period
The second part is 100% correct, but I disagree with the first part for a number of reasons.

#1 - Because everyone knows what the situation is; and because we've all worked together for a number of years, no one is going to hold grudges over who leaves. We all know we'd all jump if given the chance. There is ZERO reason to stop communicating, stop working together and stop being honest.

It would be beneficial for EVERYONE to put the cards on the table with a roll call of:
"Yes, they called us, we'll be going"
"Yes, they called us, but weren't committal"
"We called them, we're optimistic."
"We called them, we got shot down."

For starters, there'd be some "Wait, What?" moments when Xavier, Butler, Saint Louis, Dayton, VCU, Richmond, etc compare notes. It's not like there is any benefit for those leaving to blindside someone who's about to get left behind if the BE is stringing them along.

Those not being invited could focus on preparing to move forward rather than chasing an unrealistic pipedream.

#2 - The Atlantic 10 Conference is going to exist after the Big East splits and poaches.
They need to find out who's leaving, who's staying and how to rebuild. Vetting candidates for that starts now (if it hasn't already).
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

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According to a person with direct knowledge of the meeting, the A-10, aware of the impending Big East split, is concerned that St. Louis, Dayton and Xavier have "one foot out the door."
Probably two by now.

The Presidents and Athletic Directors of St. Louis, Dayton and Xavier saw this opportunity coming a long time ago, and have been acting accordingly.

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Old 12-14-2012, 07:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

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Originally Posted by Muddy Waters View Post
Probably two by now.

The Presidents and Athletic Directors of St. Louis, Dayton and Xavier saw this opportunity coming a long time ago, and have been acting accordingly.
I'd love to give Father Biondi credit, but I just don't know with him.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:01 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

I love that Muddy is rhe new biggest fan of the Xavier administration. Being separated from his lunacy is an almost worthy ancillary benefit if this all goes down.

But if UD got exiled it would be even better for the insane reactionary posts. Literally insane.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:49 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

How do the top 7 A10 teams stack up against the BE7 over the last 5 years? With VCU and Butler in the mix, it's a very interesting comparison, and it makes you wonder why the BE7 has all the negotiating power once they are seperated from top former BE schools. I think they are still living on the afterglow of who they have been associated with before the BE crumbled.

St. Johns, Seton Hall and Providence have not done much recently (Hovering around 100 or 100+ RPI). DePaul has been especially horrific (around 200 RPI). Do they really belong in this power-play? Do we really think those four schools are in a position to be lording over the A10s quality? If the A10 were without some of it's bottom-feeders you might say that the A10 should dictate the terms of a new league on equal footing with the BE7 leftovers.

Maybe that is why the A10 presidents are meeting. Honestly, at least half of the A10 should have significant negotiating power if they were to act as one like the BE7 is. Will it happen? It doesn't seem likely. But it does make the idea of a meeting interesting. I think the top of the A10 can have significant negotiating power if they have the resolve to seize it.

But maybe the goals of the top BE7 and top A10 teams are similar enough that they merge in an amicable way without the need to leverage one another.

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Old 12-15-2012, 05:32 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Waters yesterday View Post


Big East’s Seven Catholic Schools Set to Bolt from Crumbling League (New York Post - Dec. 14, 2012)
The seven schools — DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John’s, Seton Hall and Villanova — will look to add five schools and reconstitute themselves as a basketball-centric league with schools located primarily in urban Northeast markets.

The schools of keenest interest to the seven are Butler, Dayton, Saint Louis, and Xavier, with Creighton, Gonzaga, St. Mary’s and La Salle also on the radar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW yesterday View Post

No word on DukesDan wetting himself (though it's a near lock).

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/colleg...#axzz2EyQDbclQ

Big East 7 Set to Plunder A-10 for Teams (New York Post - December 15, 2012)
The seven Catholic schools — or Group of Seven — that comprise the core of the Big East Conference are about to play a game they have come to despise. It’s called, "Raid Another Conference."

With that in mind, the presidents of the Atlantic 10 Conference have scheduled a meeting for Thursday with the intent of trying to solidify commitments from their membership, The Post has learned. According to a person with direct knowledge of the meeting, the A-10 is well aware league members Dayton, St. Louis, and Xavier, have "one foot out the door," to join the Group of Seven in a new conference.

Those three programs have poured millions of dollars into their programs in recent years for new facilities, increased budgets and higher coaches’ salaries.

Butler, which has done the same, including a renovation of venerable Hinkle Fieldhouse (where many of the famous scenes from the legendary movie "Hoosiers" were filmed), is another school on the Big East group’s wish list.

A Post source also said Creighton has been contacted by representatives of the seven Catholic schools that are leaving the Big East.


The Group of Seven is looking to add five teams to get to a 12-team league with Eastern and Western Divisions.

Creighton, located in Omaha, Neb., could join with Butler, Dayton, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis and Xavier in a Western Division.

Duquesne also has emerged as a school of interest because it would get the Group of Seven back into Pittsburgh and it has upgraded its facilities with the opening of the Power Center in 2007.

St. Mary’s, from the San Francisco area, and Gonzaga, from Seattle, are also possibilities, but the Group of Seven would have to weigh the travel costs for non-revenue sports against the merits of the two highly respected men’s basketball programs.

Muddy's Observations:

(1) It now appears that Dayton, Saint Louis, and Xavier are locks for invitations to the New Big East.

(2) Five schools - Butler, Creighton, Duquesne, St. Mary’s, and Gonzaga - are in contention for the remaining two spots in the New Big East.

(3) Duquesne may be the favorite for the fourth team to get an invitation.

(4) Duquesne is the best 'fit' for the two-Division conference in terms of geography, shared past history (going back more than 80 years), and culturally.
East Division

Duquesne ?
Georgetown
Providence
Seton Hall
St. John's
Villanova

West Division

Butler, Creighton, St. Mary’s, or Gonzaga ?
Dayton
DePaul
Marquette
Saint Louis
Xavier
. . . but Duquesne presently has the weakest basketball program of any of the schools being considered by the BE7.

(5) If Duquesne does not get an invitaion, the remaining two invitations will go to two schools that are a geographic fit for the West Division, which already has 5 schools.

(6) If Duquesne does not get an invitaion, then either Dayton or Xavier would have to be moved to the East Division, but it would make no economic sense to put Dayton and Xavier in different Divisions, as it would break up a long-running, very marketable rivalry.

(7) So then DePaul would have to be moved to the East Division, but neither they nor Marquette would want that.

(8) So giving the fourth invitation to Duquesne solves a lot of problems for the 12-team, two-Division conference.

(9) The fifth and final invitation will likely go to Butler or Creighton, both of whom have excellent basketball programs.

(10) Butler is by far the best geographic fit, but it would be the only non-Catholic school in a 12-school conference.

(11) Creighton is a Catholic school that averages well over 16,000 per game attendance, but it is in Nebraska.

(12) Thursday's meeting of the Atlantic 10 Presidents is not going to stop Butler, Dayton, Duquesne, Saint Louis, and Xavier from bolting if/when they receive invitations from the BE7.

* * *

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but I'm hoping that Duquesne and Butler get the final two invitations and I think there is a reasonably good chance that will happen.

I advocated the incusion of Duquesne in the New Big East in this thread I started 2 years ago:


The New Big East Conference ? (A10 MB thread started by Muddy Waters on June 18, 2010)

The thread linked above also has a lot of data concerning Duquesne's 'fit' in The New Big East Conference.


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Old 12-15-2012, 06:29 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

If Duquesne is involved, I'm sure their President will leak information. Any word from him?
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:42 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: A10 Presidents call meeting

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If Duquesne is involved, I'm sure their President will leak information. Any word from him?

I guess no memos to the BOT on the matter yet.
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