College Hoops

I think Robbins is like alot of reporters/posters if you throw enough out there sooner or later you'll be right.
VCU works from a geographic, market penetration and reputation standpoint, but unlike every other school rumored as a possible member, it is like George Mason, a large public school. Richmond is a private school and another natural rival for Georgetown. Duquesne is in a good market, private , hasn't had alot recent success in bb, and only averaged 3900 fans for home games in 2011. A school that is private, fits the east geographically, is accessible by plane and train and averaged more fans in home attendance then Butler, St. Louis, VCU, Providence Gonzaga and Richmond is Siena. Obviously not a national name but gets you into upstate NY and western Mass & Ct.. Assuming the other five schools are: Butler, Dayton, Creighton, St. Louis and Xavier, the issue is who plays in the east? While Dayton is geographically closer, I can't see them splitting UD & Xavier. I think you go to Marquette and DePaul and see if either prefers to be in the east with its 'old' partners. Conversely, its one 12 team conference, and the BE 7 rotate every year playing home and home games with the five additions in addition to the home and home within their division. Working against the five schools is that Butler is the only non-catholic school. At the time of the BE 7's announcement, it seemed as though they did not think this would be a catholic only conference. I wonder if they are looking for another private school in the east e.g. Richmond eliminating Creighton, St. Louis or Dayton from the mix.

xudash

They're obviously doing it based upon what is perceived to create a conference that is very strong with respect to a combination of markets and individual programs, with the latter being about real potential in the event a particular program isn't up to full snuff at present (e.g. DePaul).

Dayton would normally make it due to the latter element, primarily based upon its fan support, though it has proximity to Xavier and a poor track record working against it.

Put it this way, I believe Richmond would have been a lock if its fan support were stronger; if the Spiders parked about 9k in the seats for every home game, it would have knocked Dayton out of the running. If Richmond looked more like a Dayton in Richmond, Dayton wouldn't have had a prayer in all this.

Richmond would have offered a fabulous institution, a strong program and a solid (new) Southern market.

Muddy Waters

If Spiders had six legs, they wouldn't be Spiders.

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xudash

Round and round the wheel spins.

Where will it stop? More to the point, which schools, other than Xavier and Butler, will it stop on?

From the Georgetown board:

Today at 10:32am, hoyabinx wrote:

Today at 9:45am, nathanhm wrote:
So an insider on one of the Marquette boards is saying Gonzaga is def in the new league for at least basketball, still making a decision on the other programs. Don't know how accurate this guy but would LOVE for him to be right.

Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga -- great start.


Any chance you could link to that discussion and/or quote what he said?


Board is MUScoop - Gonzaga thread. I haven't seen anything on the Gonzaga board that conveys the same message:

Highlighted comments by the guy:

It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted.

Gonzaga is in for BB. They may or may not bring other sports. Other sports is not the issue for Gonzaga. They are open to leaving them in WCC.

No conflicts in what I say. Gonzaga BB is in. Period. I understand the BoD wants to understand the financial impact but they already agree it will not be greater than the upgraded TV deal and so many other financial benefits. Then there are the intangibles. Only question is about other sports and that is something Hertz' team is modeling now. I understand they are looking at options other than C7 membership. WCC will be happy as Zags can play Seattle and Portland and everyone on both sides will be happy. What I don't know is what the Zags will ask for when they meet with C7 in January but I am told they will be very flexible as getting in is seen by Zags as imperative. Don't expect deal breakers tho they will ask for some considerations. You lose a lot of leverage once you say I do.

What I know is what I have been told by a protégé of the Zags project point man. The Zags have been approached and asked to come back with terms of engagement. Gonzaga is ready to say yes for BB but needs to sort out other sports. I have no idea where that is but they are looking at some or all joining the new league. That is what I understand to be the case at this point in time. But I have it on very good authority that they are in for BB. Personally I welcome their joining in any form, much more so than the Daytons of the world.

All this is high theatre. The Marquette guys seem to really have it in for Dayton. Otherwise, the Georgetown and Villanova people mostly see them low on the list, but without some special grudge against them.

RF1

This CYO league sure is looking good this week. A few nights ago St. John's lost at home to UNC-Asheville. Tonight, Seton Hall struggled to beat stony Brook winning by just one. Also this evening, Providence went across town to play at Browns gym with rollout bleachers and let a 7 point lead slip away with under a minute losing to the Bears. Pretty elite company.

Muddy Waters

Check out LaDontae Henton's stat line: http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323632507

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RF1

Henton's line
39mins 13-20 fg 6-10 3fg 5-6 ft 37 points
I think he scored 24 straight points in the 2nd half for PC. Unfortuantely for the Friars, it still wasn't enough.

You probably don't want to hear this as a Dayton fan, but URI assistant coach and former Ram Preston Murphy referred PC Coach Cooley to Henton after he bailed on the Flyers. Cooley was an assistant at URI when Murphy was here and they have remained friendly as branches of Al Skinner's coaching tree.

bprichard

Whoa. One of the best of the year. Nonetheless, his teammates let him down a bit there. No matter how well you play as an individual, you never feel good after losing to Brown. Unless you're a D2 school, in which case you feel sort of all right about it.

Muddy Waters

Poor timing for Xavier's nosedive:

Big East 7 Set to Plunder A-10 for Teams (New York Post - December 15, 2012)

According to a person with direct knowledge of the meeting, the A-10 is well aware league members Dayton, St. Louis, and Xavier, have "one foot out the door," to join the Group of Seven in a new conference.

Those three programs have poured millions of dollars into their programs in recent years for new facilities, increased budgets and higher coaches’ salaries.

Butler, which has done the same, including a renovation of venerable Hinkle Fieldhouse is another school on the Big East group’s wish list.

A Post source also said Creighton has been contacted by representatives of the seven Catholic schools that are leaving the Big East.

The Group of Seven is looking to add five teams to get to a 12-team league with Eastern and Western Divisions.

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Bona84

Never a good time for a nose dive, Muddy. But, why is this particular time poor for Xavier?

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Bona84

xudash

I know you to be a very balanced poster, so I imagine you're going for entertainment with your question, rather than looking for a cogent response.

Bona84

We're on page 10 dash. What do you think we'll get?

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Bona84

xudash

I'm with you.

I have him on block, which literally equales the value of anything he types.

What a way to go through life.

Muddy Waters

Curran Likes UD’s Position as Big East Candidate (Doug Harris, DDN - December 31, 2012)

Dayton reportedly may have a chance to join a new league being formed by fellow Catholic schools Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John’s, DePaul, and Providence.

University of Dayton President Dan Curran, who attended the Flyers’ game at Southern Cal on Sunday while returning from a trip to the UD institute in China, said the school has worked hard to make itself an attractive candidate.

Curran, who has led UD for 11 years, has relationships with many of the presidents of the “Catholic 7,” as they’ve come to be known. And the UD administration has made sure those decision-makers have ample information about the Flyers.

“They know of Dayton. They know what we’ve done. And I think that’s the key,” Curran said. “We’re just waiting to see what happens and making sure we’re in the right position and disseminated enough information that people know about UD’s status.”

Sports Ilustrated’s Pete Thamel, citing unnamed sources, has reported that the new league will include 12 teams.

Xavier and Butler are sure things, he wrote for SI.com, and Creighton and Dayton are "are the next two on the list, and should be considered near definite."

Many believe the TV market size will be a deciding factor, which would seemingly favor Saint Louis and others over Dayton. But Curran believes UD has something to offer the Catholic 7 in that department.

“They have a better understanding (than the casual observer) of our media market, which is very good,” Curran said.

“If they look at the size of the media market, they miss the depth of the media market, the number of games we play on television. When UD plays, a very high percentage of the media market watches the UD game, unlike a lot of institutions” Curran said.

“It’s our responsibility to be fully articulating what our media market is all about. And it’s a strong market.”

Thamel said Fox Sports is interested in TV rights for the new league and said industry insiders expect each school’s take to be about $3 million annually.

The A-10 currently doles out about $350,000 per year to its members.

“We’re not coming into this unprepared. We’re prepared. And the A-10 is a strong conference and it’s growing, but we don’t want to be in a position where we’re not considered for anything that comes along. This is still a very fluid situation,” Curran said.

“We’ve done the things we’ve needed to do. It is about men’s basketball and TV revenue. But a team like Villanova, they want a team to play in volleyball, and we’re bringing in a top-25 program. And women’s basketball is representing us well. And the men’s team right now, we’re in a good place. Again, we’ve done what we needed to do in terms of scholarships, in terms of TV exposure, and that took years.

“Seton Hall has been in the building recently (winning a nonleague game last season). They know what the experience is about at UD, and that’s what makes a conference exciting. We bring that to the table. I feel good where we are. We’ve worked hard.”

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This is exactly what Fox Sports TV and the BE7 do not want to be shown on a televised BE12 game.

Dayton's last home game was played after the students left school for the Christmas break.


Dayton 77, Murray State 68 (Yahoo Box Score - December 22, 2012)

Attendance: 12,638

. . . about 800 seats short of a sell-out.

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Here's some updated numbers:

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space ghost

I think Cincinnati and UConn will eventually decide they have no better options than to follow the Catholic 7 and park their football programs in a lesser conference or even go independent for a while. And with 10 stable members, the new conference will be able to afford to take them, even knowing they'll bolt if the ACC or Big 12 ever comes calling.

Division A
Georgetown
Villanova
UConn
St. John's
Seton Hall
Providence


Division B
Marquette
DePaul
Cincinnati
Xavier
Butler
Creighton (or Gonazaga for basketball only)