CONTEST: Predict the New 'BE12' Conference Teams - Page 5 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

**FlyingElvis** · 12-17-2012, 09:17 AM

I hear that X and Butler are already gone, barring something crazy going on and spoiling the deal. I hear that the BE7 are leaning toward a 10 team league and Marquette is lobbying hard for Saint Louis and against UD. I am not sure how solid the 10 team direction is, but I'm guessing that UD is left out of the mix if it is 10 schools in that league. I would be disappointed to be left out of the quality games that will take place in the new league, but predicting the effects of this seismic event are beyond me. Sometimes these changes don't have the results on every program that you would expect. Every league game has a winner and a loser. I don't think the lower BE4 from the BE7 are going to strengthen their recruiting over what the BE used to allow them, so I don't expect them to improve much or at all because of the restructuring. Butler, X, Marquette, Georgetown and Nova will continue to have very fine programs, I am sure, or at least most of them will. What will become of the teams in the A10? Not sure. There are still a good number of programs there who are capable of being very good. A few teams are bound to step into the power vacuum and make a name for themselves. This actually could be a very good opportunity for some A10 programs. Winning helps recruiting sometimes as much as conference affiliation/reputation.

**xu95** · 12-17-2012, 09:20 AM

Elvis, I am hearing the same things you are. I have heard the only chance Dayton has of getting in is if it goes to 12 and that is not the initial number the schools want to start out with. Not saying they won't ever get there, but I hear they want to start with 10 and the three additions are Xavier, Butler, and St. Louis.

**xu95** · 12-17-2012, 09:21 AM

And I can't speak for St. Louis, but I have also heard that informal talks have taken place and both Xavier and Butler have already given them an affirmative to an invite.

Flyer75 · 12-17-2012, 09:25 AM

I'm just not going to lose sleep over this. It would be a missed opportunity to not go to this new league but not a program crippler. We play in a day and age of one and done players which, admit it or not X, Butler and VCU fans, have created these March runs to E8 and Final Fours. Much easier to compete when you are fielding juniors and seniors vs. the Dukes, UK, UNC, Ohio St, that are fielding very very talented teams but made up of freshmen and sophomores. No matter what, that fact won't change. UD can still compete in a three week tourny with the landscape of college basketball if they can figure out the path to get there. Money would be the big loss and higher ceiling.

Muddy Waters · 12-17-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xu95

Elvis, I am hearing the same things you are.

I have heard the only chance Dayton has of getting in is if it goes to 12 and that is not the initial number the schools want to start out with.

Source

xudash · 12-17-2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xu95

Elvis, I am hearing the same things you are. I have heard the only chance Dayton has of getting in is if it goes to 12 and that is not the initial number the schools want to start out with. Not saying they won't ever get there, but I hear they want to start with 10 and the three additions are Xavier, Butler, and St. Louis.

I'm hearing all that as well.

Marquette is playing the Jesuit card pretty hard. I don't know what other motives they may have that align against UD, in particular.

**xu95** · 12-17-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddy Waters

Source

Nope. I haven't set foot on Musketeer Madness for at least a half a dozen years. That place is a cess pool. Let's just say I do more than type in "Dayton + Big East" into google.

paulxu · 12-17-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bona Wolf for Pope

As long as that crazy opinion comes from a place of bias toward your own school, I think you'll be ok.

Hot damn. Because I've got some batsh$t crazy opinions that I can support with countless high school links that are very biased toward my own school. Thanks for the go ahead.

**a10nick** · 12-17-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyer75

I'm just not going to lose sleep over this. It would be a missed opportunity to not go to this new league but not a program crippler. We play in a day and age of one and done players which, admit it or not X, Butler and VCU fans, have created these March runs to E8 and Final Fours. Much easier to compete when you are fielding juniors and seniors vs. the Dukes, UK, UNC, Ohio St, that are fielding very very talented teams but made up of freshmen and sophomores. No matter what, that fact won't change. UD can still compete in a three week tourny with the landscape of college basketball if they can figure out the path to get there. Money would be the big loss and higher ceiling.

What did Kentucky's lineup look like last season. Weren't there some pretty important members of that team that were one-and-dones? How did they end the season?

Muddy Waters · 12-17-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

I hear that Marquette is lobbying hard for Saint Louis and against UD.

. . . and not without good reason:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichFlyer1

Dayton has played Marquette 35 times and has won 5 of the last 6 games since 1998.

The last time Dayton played Marquette was in 2008 at the Sears Center. Dayton won 89-75.

FLYERS UPSET AP # 15 MARQUETTE 89-75 TO WIN THE 2008 CHICAGO INVITATIONAL (DaytonFlyers - November 29, 2008)

In recent years the Flyers have proved they can handle the big-name programs.

The Flyers are 5-2 in the last three years against BCS programs and have won three consecutive games against Big East opponents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddy Waters on June 27, 2009

That slam by Flyght traumatized Maurice Acker so badly that he decided to give up college basketball:

Marquette’s Acker to Graduate, Skip Eligibility (Yahoo! - June 25, 2009)

Apparently, poor ol' Mo kept having recurring nightmares about Flyght going to the hole on him. I wish Maurice a speedy recovery from that experience.

MONSTROUS Slam Dunk by Chris Wright!!! (YouTube video - November 29, 2008)

Chris Wright a Sophomore Forward of the Dayton Flyers throws down a MONSTROUS DUNK over #15 Marquette.

YES, HE DID DUNK OVER A MARQUETTE PLAYER!!!

If I was Marquette's basketball coach or AD, I wouldn't want to play Dayton either.

Dayton has embarrassed Marquette on a number of occasions, and they haven't forgotten it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddy Waters on December 6, 2012

Dillard Leads Dayton Past Alabama 81-76 (AP/Yahoo! - December 6, 2012)

TUSCALOOSA, Ala. (AP) -- It was the seventh straight win against SEC opponents for the Flyers (6-2), who improved to 19-8 in the past six seasons against teams from BCS conferences.

xavierhoops · 12-17-2012, 04:31 PM

I have to say I'm kind of confused as to why Marquette would be pushing for SLU so hard (although Muddy, I can PROMISE you it isn't because UD has beaten them in the last few single game meetings). Is it because of SLU's geography in the "west", the St Louis market which is multiples times bigger than the UD market, Dayton overlapping the Cincinnati market?? You've got to imagine the fan support at UD and their strong overall athletic programs have to mean something.

A10fan2 · 12-17-2012, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddy Waters

If I was Marquette's basketball coach or AD, I wouldn't want to play Dayton either.

Dayton has embarrassed Marquette on a number of occasions, and they haven't forgotten it.

I guess even muddie doesn't remember half his babbling posts. Didn't he say that the coach and AD's have nothing to do with the decision of who gets invited? Maybe even the president's remember the frequent beatdowns at the hands of the cryers and are reluctant to expose their coaches to the humiliation of losing to a mediocre A10 team.

Muddy Waters · 12-18-2012, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BmoreX earlier today

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/xavier/2...medium=twitter

Contrary to this blog post, there is no A-10 presidents’ meeting Thursday. If one is scheduled, it has not been made public.

Xavier remains in the conversation as a potential Big East member with other basketball-centric schools like Butler, Dayton, Saint Louis, Creighton and Gonzaga.

Interesting read here about how and why the Big East programs split.

Excerpt from Shannon’s Russell’s Interesting read here link:

Quote:

How Big East's Basketball Schools Decided to Finally Break Off to Form their Own Conference

The New Jersey Star-Ledger – Monday, December 17, 2012 – 7:49 PM

Individuals who are familiar with the thinking of the basketball-only schools have already begun to identify potential targets to bolster their ranks as early as the middle of last week. Atlantic 10 schools – Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis and Butler -- are on the list. As is Missouri Valley Conference member Creighton.

Even Gonzaga -- which is located in Washington state and plays in the West Coast Conference -- has already taken the temperature of the seven schools.

The seven schools are most high on Xavier, which has long been a target of expansion talks of the Big East. But with Creighton's emergence as a consistent, national basketball power, the Bluejays are expected to have a large amount of support.

The current consensus is to have a 12-team league.

The feeling among the head coaches of the seven schools making the move is that it allows the league to be able to still draw a sizable portion of automatic and at-large NCAA Tournament bids, while still keeping all teams relevant.

There is a chance that a 14-team or even 16-team league could be an option, but, as one person put it: "That puts this league right back into the same situation we have in the Big East -- it's too big."

As of last night, the current consensus is to have a 12-team league.

Last night’s Star-Ledger article strongly implied that a 10-school conference is no longer being considered by the majority of BE7 Presidents – good news for Dayton, Saint Louis, and Butler.

Muddy’s Solution: If Marquette doesn’t want to be in the same Division as Dayton, assign the Golden Eagles to the East Division (with their old BE buddies) and add Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis, Butler, and Creighton to the West Division with DePaul.

Let arrogant Marquette pay for their cowardice with the highest travel expenses bill in the New Big East, and everyone is happy. (Well, almost everyone).

2011-12 NCAA Men’s Basketball Attendance (ncaa.org)

New Big East Conference - 12 Schools:

Code:

Rk. University   Attendance

 6. Creighton    16,665
13. Marquette    15,138
28. Dayton       12,154
35. Georgetown   11,283
39. Xavier       10,155
44. Villanova     8,923
54. St. John's    8,428
63. Providence    7,883
66. Saint Louis   7,757
67. DePaul        7,740
76. Seton Hall    6,941
78. Butler        6,599

Final RPI Rankings: 2002-03 through 2011-12 (with compliments to 434) and 10-Year Averages:

Code:

Team	  02-03 03-04 04-05 05-06 06-07 07-08 08-09 09-10 10-11 11-12  Avg RPI

Xavier       23    20   130    72    27     9    15    17    26    37     37.6
Marquette     7    67    94    40    26    20    27    56    49     9     39.5
Villanova    83    53    14     2    19    42     8    15    45   121     40.2
Georgetown   74   138    77    26     6     8    66    16    15    14     44.0
Creighton    24    74    48    46    22    47    46   106   113    23     54.9
Butler	    21   152   239    80    22    16    22     7    19   105     68.3
Dayton       17    37   117   184    76    28    26    37    80    91     69.3
Seton Hall   45    21   133    62   156   113   101    70   103    69     87.3
Providence   56    23    93   105    78   109    77   147   158	  156    100.2
Saint Louis  77    58   184   102    74   135   130    80   183    28    105.1
St Johns     52   166   167   135   131   156   140    78    25   153    120.3
DePaul       81    30    63    90    56   157   205   217   233   194    132.6

Quote:

Originally Posted by 434 on December 18, 2012

Final RPI Rankings: 2002-03 through 2011-12

Code:

Team	  02-03 03-04 04-05 05-06 06-07 07-08 08-09 09-10 10-11 11-12  Avg RPI

Marquette     7    67    94    40    26    20    27    56    49     9     39.5
Villanova    83    53    14     2    19    42     8    15    45   121     40.2
Georgetown   74   138    77    26     6     8    66    16    15    14     44.0
Seton Hall   45    21   133    62   156   113   101    70   103    69     87.3
Providence   56    23    93   105    78   109    77   147   158	  156    100.2
St Johns     52   166   167   135   131   156   140    78    25   153    120.3
DePaul       81    30    63    90    56   157   205   217   233   194    132.6

Xavier       23    20   130    72    27     9    15    17    26    37     37.6
Creighton    24    74    48    46    22    47    46   106   113    23     54.9
Butler       21   152   239    80    22    16    22     7    19   105     68.3
Dayton       17    37   117   184    76    28    26    37    80    91     69.3
Saint Louis  77    58   184   102    74   135   130    80   183    28    105.1

VCU  	   135    45    91    74    44    60    51    46    31    34     61.1
St Joes	    29     2    47    53    97    50   105   184   163    75     80.5
Richmond    106    39   146   205   272   129   124    24    33   131    120.9
URI	    92    69   301   152   108    74    61    36   103   262    125.8
GW	   163    65    61    31    70   185   203   148   150   189    126.5
LaSalle	   189   170   215   103   268   163   110   178   172    96    166.4
Duquesne    252   162   258   308   219   130    76   112   100   110    172.7
St Bona     139   210   312   289   278   265   199   156   128    78    205.4
Fordham     282   212   189   138   112   172   292   304   255   242    220.2

Bona Wolf for Pope · 12-18-2012, 03:56 AM

So now Shannon Russell is your favorite reporter? Get some scruples, man.

Marquette is not worried about Dayton. We've seen how important "BCS" games are for the A10, and they are the biggest games of the season. Once you're playing them year in and year out (if you are), Marquette will start winning more regularly. It will be a regular conference game, and we've seen how Dayton does there.

X-band '01 · 12-18-2012, 04:48 AM

Muddy, I can understand the argument for a 12-team league, but why are you so hung up on divisions? None of the major conferences use the division format right now; even the SEC has gotten away from that within the last year or two. Only the Big South, the Sun Belt, the SoCon, the Southland and the MAC even go by divisions right now.

12-17-2012, 09:17 AM	#61 (permalink)
FlyingElvis Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Memphis - Dayton - Vegas Posts: 2,400 Rep Power: 149179	Re: CONTEST: Predict the New 'BE12' Conference Teams I hear that X and Butler are already gone, barring something crazy going on and spoiling the deal. I hear that the BE7 are leaning toward a 10 team league and Marquette is lobbying hard for Saint Louis and against UD. I am not sure how solid the 10 team direction is, but I'm guessing that UD is left out of the mix if it is 10 schools in that league. I would be disappointed to be left out of the quality games that will take place in the new league, but predicting the effects of this seismic event are beyond me. Sometimes these changes don't have the results on every program that you would expect. Every league game has a winner and a loser. I don't think the lower BE4 from the BE7 are going to strengthen their recruiting over what the BE used to allow them, so I don't expect them to improve much or at all because of the restructuring. Butler, X, Marquette, Georgetown and Nova will continue to have very fine programs, I am sure, or at least most of them will. What will become of the teams in the A10? Not sure. There are still a good number of programs there who are capable of being very good. A few teams are bound to step into the power vacuum and make a name for themselves. This actually could be a very good opportunity for some A10 programs. Winning helps recruiting sometimes as much as conference affiliation/reputation. __________________ "US Bank Arena can't be that bad"

12-17-2012, 09:20 AM	#62 (permalink)
xu95 Community Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cincinnati Age: 40 Posts: 3,576 Rep Power: 332174	Re: CONTEST: Predict the New 'BE12' Conference Teams Elvis, I am hearing the same things you are. I have heard the only chance Dayton has of getting in is if it goes to 12 and that is not the initial number the schools want to start out with. Not saying they won't ever get there, but I hear they want to start with 10 and the three additions are Xavier, Butler, and St. Louis.

12-17-2012, 09:21 AM	#63 (permalink)
xu95 Community Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cincinnati Age: 40 Posts: 3,576 Rep Power: 332174	Re: CONTEST: Predict the New 'BE12' Conference Teams And I can't speak for St. Louis, but I have also heard that informal talks have taken place and both Xavier and Butler have already given them an affirmative to an invite.

12-17-2012, 09:25 AM	#64 (permalink)
Flyer75 Star Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,837 Rep Power: 37278	Re: CONTEST: Predict the New 'BE12' Conference Teams I'm just not going to lose sleep over this. It would be a missed opportunity to not go to this new league but not a program crippler. We play in a day and age of one and done players which, admit it or not X, Butler and VCU fans, have created these March runs to E8 and Final Fours. Much easier to compete when you are fielding juniors and seniors vs. the Dukes, UK, UNC, Ohio St, that are fielding very very talented teams but made up of freshmen and sophomores. No matter what, that fact won't change. UD can still compete in a three week tourny with the landscape of college basketball if they can figure out the path to get there. Money would be the big loss and higher ceiling.

12-17-2012, 04:31 PM	#71 (permalink)
xavierhoops Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 864 Rep Power: 260320	Re: CONTEST: Predict the New 'BE12' Conference Teams I have to say I'm kind of confused as to why Marquette would be pushing for SLU so hard (although Muddy, I can PROMISE you it isn't because UD has beaten them in the last few single game meetings). Is it because of SLU's geography in the "west", the St Louis market which is multiples times bigger than the UD market, Dayton overlapping the Cincinnati market?? You've got to imagine the fan support at UD and their strong overall athletic programs have to mean something. __________________ Chris Mack in 3 years at Xavier has had twice the NCAA wins (4) of the entire Dayton coaching staff in the modern era of NCAA basketball (2).

12-18-2012, 03:56 AM	#74 (permalink)
Bona Wolf for Pope Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 819 Rep Power: 265738	Re: CONTEST: Predict the New 'BE12' Conference Teams So now Shannon Russell is your favorite reporter? Get some scruples, man. Marquette is not worried about Dayton. We've seen how important "BCS" games are for the A10, and they are the biggest games of the season. Once you're playing them year in and year out (if you are), Marquette will start winning more regularly. It will be a regular conference game, and we've seen how Dayton does there. __________________ "Careful reading comprehension is crucial to an online forum discussion."

12-18-2012, 04:48 AM	#75 (permalink)
X-band '01 Veteran Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Montgomery, OH Age: 34 Posts: 1,480 Rep Power: 147698	Re: CONTEST: Predict the New 'BE12' Conference Teams Muddy, I can understand the argument for a 12-team league, but why are you so hung up on divisions? None of the major conferences use the division format right now; even the SEC has gotten away from that within the last year or two. Only the Big South, the Sun Belt, the SoCon, the Southland and the MAC even go by divisions right now.

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